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Theme Changer

 Topic: Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist

 (Read 6604 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     OP - November 01, 2014, 06:27 AM

    Heyo! I'm a bit different from most of the ex-Muslims around in that I was actually a convert to Islam. From Judaism. So, let me start my story there.
    I grew up in a Jewish family with Christian family members. Jews in general don't study the Bible outside of the Torah, so they have little knowledge of the judges, kings, and prophets of Judaism. Since I had Christian family, I did learn about those people, mostly so I could explain to my Christian family why they were wrong and Judaism was right. This made me a hot commodity in the Jewish marriage market, and I was highly respected for my learning and anti-Christian views. At one point I was probably the most famous Orthodox Jewish woman on YouTube, even being a featured channel with offers to become a partner.
    But there was something gnawing at me: The virulent racism of Jews. While I thought the hatred of Christians was totally justified, after all they have mass-slaughtered Jews throughout their history, there really wasn't any historical problem between Jews and Muslims in spite of what you see today. Also, despite the protestations of apologists that Judaism is a religion, not a race, I knew, and everyone else knew, that wasn't true. You need look no further than the Jewish law and the Talmud to see this: there are two famous passages that state very clearly that non-Jews are donkeys, and then there are other less-publicized passages that say that the reason children of non-Jewish women are not Jewish, even if their father is, is because ALL non-Jewish women are prostitutes and highly promiscuous, so there's no way you can be sure the child is yours and have no legal responsibility towards it. Even women converting to Judaism are assumed to be promiscuous, and it is standard practice for your converting rabbi to grill you on your sexual history and strictly forbid you from forming any relationships with Jewish men until after you convert (which takes about 3-10 years). Moses' nephew was highly praised by God in the Torah for running a non-Jewish woman through with a spear for having the audacity to have a relationship with a Jewish man. I've seen women trying to convert to Judaism be coerced into having sex with a Jewish man, who tells her if she doesn't do what he says he will tell the converting Rabbi that she tried to seduce him and she will be barred from conversion. Because of this acceptance of the fact that she's a whore by virtue of not having been born into the right kind of family, her complaints that he raped her would never be accepted, because he's too pious to ever do that because he was born into the right kind of family.
    So I decided I didn't want to be associated with that, but I was still religious. I had long held, with a quiet but thriving community of other practicing Jews, that there is no real theological objection to the claims of prophethood by Mohammad. We believed he probably was a prophet, but that what he said was not binding on Jews, because we were under a different set of laws given by God. Non-Jews are bound only by seven laws (the Noahide laws), not by the 613 of the Torah. Mohammad, we believed, was a true prophet because he brought people back to the practice of these seven laws. Additionally, I had discovered that there were many ancient Jewish historians who said that the Torah we have now was written by Ezra, and not Moses. So I became a Muslim.
    As most of you probably know, there aren't many converts from Judaism to Islam, and the ones that there are get loads of attention. So I've been in the public spotlight basically since I came public. My blog about my conversion has exploded in popularity over the last year, now averaging 1,000 hits per month (total views since 2010 = 31,000+).
    Over the last few years, my religiosity has declined. There are several reasons why: growing disenfranchisement with religion in general, having my bipolar disorder (one of the symptoms of which is hyper-religiosity) better managed with medication, a growing understanding that the mystic experiences I have had were caused by anomalies in my brain and not by supernatural entities (proven by their sharp decline in frequency after I started taking anti-psychotics to control my paranoia), better education about the history of religion and its role in our evolution and about science in general, etc. I also completed a degree in social work, which required a great deal of learning about psychological development and disorders and also religiosity.
    But there are some reasons I don't want to come out as no longer religious publicly. One is the very obvious fear for my safety. Another that I had previously but have since lost is the fear of losing my social network; all my friends have cut off contact with me for various other reasons, largely related to my plethora of psychological disorders. They seem like that whack-a-mole game, as soon as you start treating one effectively something else starts becoming problematic. Another reason is that I'm currently living off of various religious charities, mostly Muslim charities, while waiting to receive disability (I was awarded disability this week after two years of struggling to get it). So, I've got real reasons for not wanting to be openly non-religious, but I also want to meet people who are willing to accept me without faith.

    That's more words than I was expecting it to be. I'd be surprised if anyone actually read all of them. Anyway, that's an introduction to me.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #1 - November 01, 2014, 07:59 AM

    Wow, such an interesting and intense story!

    Welcome in  parrot

    You have had such a rocky ride of things, hopefully this place gives you the support you need to slowly edge out of Islam's shadows.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #2 - November 01, 2014, 08:13 AM

     Welcome galfromusa 

    such an interesting story, are you able to share your blogs, i was surprised to hear that it takes 3 to 10 years to convert to judaism, i wonder what are the apostacy laws like, are you generally shunned or is it as bad as apostacizing from islam where you feel eternally threatened ?

    Xoo
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #3 - November 01, 2014, 08:34 AM

    Hi galfromusa,

    Wow@your history. Now there is something one does not see every day Shocked

    But first, let me hand you this welcome parrot parrot

    Thanks for telling about the Orthodox Jewish views there. I had no idea! no I will have to read up on them some time. I am sure your contributions here with your knowledge of the three Abrahamic faiths will be highly treasured Wink

    Hopefully this place can help you heal and give you a sense of belonging. There are many great contributors here and ruffling through the old posts unearths an insane amount of awesome information, views and humour.

    Sorry to hear about your struggle with your mental disorder. Being bipolar is some serious shit!!!

    Hugs from a sympathetic never-Moose in Denmark.
     far away hug

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #4 - November 01, 2014, 10:13 AM

    Welcome! What an interesting story. I'm glad you're here.  parrot

    Go have a look around the other boards and jump in whenever you'd like to contribute. Everyone's really nice here.  yes
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #5 - November 01, 2014, 10:36 AM

    That's more words than I was expecting it to be. I'd be surprised if anyone actually read all of them.


    I read every single word - fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing. I'm really glad you joined us  Afro

    I also want to meet people who are willing to accept me without faith.


    You have come to the right place then - the members here are a great bunch and very accepting of anyone - faith or no faith.

    (It's the people of faith that generally have trouble accepting those of no faith.)
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #6 - November 01, 2014, 01:35 PM

    Welcome, galfromusa! I don't think I've ever heard of a Jew converting to Islam, and I don't hear much about the Jewish community in general, so yours was a very interesting and informative post. Glad you've left behind all those beliefs. Hope you stick around.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #7 - November 01, 2014, 06:51 PM

    Welcome galfromusa 

    such an interesting story, are you able to share your blogs, i was surprised to hear that it takes 3 to 10 years to convert to judaism, i wonder what are the apostacy laws like, are you generally shunned or is it as bad as apostacizing from islam where you feel eternally threatened ?

    Xoo


    You do still get death threats. There's a Jewish terrorist organization called Kahane Chai or Kach that has sent me death threats. What's scary about them is that they do tend to actually act on their threats, even assassinating an Israeli prime minister. They told me that I must be publicly decapitated and if that is not possible, my death must be arranged some other way. I was also completely ostracized by all my family and friends, and thrown out on the street.

     thnkyu to everyone who commented Smiley I feel welcome already!

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #8 - November 01, 2014, 07:44 PM

    You do still get death threats. There's a Jewish terrorist organization called Kahane Chai or Kach that has sent me death threats. What's scary about them is that they do tend to actually act on their threats, even assassinating an Israeli prime minister. They told me that I must be publicly decapitated and if that is not possible, my death must be arranged some other way. I was also completely ostracized by all my family and friends, and thrown out on the street.

     thnkyu to everyone who commented Smiley I feel welcome already!

     wow! That is intense, hope you are safe!
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #9 - November 01, 2014, 07:57 PM

    Welcome to the forum galfromusa, have a rabbit!  bunny

    You will certainly find a very welcoming and accepting community here!

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #10 - November 01, 2014, 08:06 PM

    Congratulations. Are you from/live in the middle east
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #11 - November 01, 2014, 08:47 PM

    You do still get death threats. There's a Jewish terrorist organization called Kahane Chai or Kach that has sent me death threats. What's scary about them is that they do tend to actually act on their threats, even assassinating an Israeli prime minister. They told me that I must be publicly decapitated and if that is not possible, my death must be arranged some other way.


    That's awful. Not sure what to advise.

    Stay safe  far away hug
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #12 - November 01, 2014, 08:57 PM

    Congratulations. Are you from/live in the middle east

    Nope. I'm from/live in the USA. My family came here from Russia ~150 years ago to escape the pogroms, and never went anywhere else.


    wow! That is intense, hope you are safe!

    Over the past few years I've been very careful to conceal my location and go by a pseudonym online to avoid being identified.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #13 - November 01, 2014, 09:15 PM

    Nope. I'm from/live in the USA. My family came here from Russia ~150 years ago to escape the pogroms, and never went anywhere else.

    Over the past few years I've been very careful to conceal my location and go by a pseudonym online to avoid being identified.

     good, you considered changing names and stuff?
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #14 - November 01, 2014, 10:47 PM

    Quote
    I had long held, with a quiet but thriving community of other practicing Jews, that there is no real theological objection to the claims of prophethood by Mohammad. We believed he probably was a prophet, but that what he said was not binding on Jews, because we were under a different set of laws given by God.

     


    woah woah woah ...... 

    how popular is this beliefs among the jewish community ?


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #15 - November 01, 2014, 11:49 PM

    @thedarkrebel: It's hard to say, because most people who have this belief don't publicize it due to fear for their safety. It's bad to be viewed as a "Muslim sympathizer" if you're living and active in a Jewish community. But I would say about a third of the orthodox Jews I talked to anonymously online believed it. Most of the ones who didn't were Jewish supremacists, followers of Meir Kahane who held that Jews were a superior people to all other people and should have dominion over non-Jews and destroy those who opposed them. A handful of anti-Zionist Jews, including me, who agreed that Islam is a true religion that will bring you to heaven, had a channel on youtube called StudyJudaism designed to create more understanding between Jews and Muslims using the power of Windows Movie Maker 2007  Afro. It's still there, but no one is taking care of it anymore. In the video "Our Creed" we actually did state that Islam is a perfectly valid religion.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #16 - November 02, 2014, 12:08 AM

    Hi and welcome!
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #17 - November 02, 2014, 01:02 AM

    galfromusa
    I made a thread a few months ago about similarities between Islam and Judaism

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26947.msg771192#msg771192

    One thing I was wondering is how prevalent the view is that the penal code in the Torah is still part of the law and can potentially be reinstated sometime in the future if certain requirements are fulfilled.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #18 - November 02, 2014, 01:24 AM

    Wow! Interesting story and welcome!! parrot parrot
    My mother converted to Islam from Judaism, but that wasn't by choice. I only know a few women who converted to Islam from Judaism because of marriage but it's pretty rare.





    turnipovich
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #19 - November 02, 2014, 02:20 AM

    Were you just Orthodox, or Karedi?

    On a side-note, early Islam was quite profoundly influenced by Judaeism - there were even Jewish tribes that collaborated with the Arabs in conquering the Levant:

    http://research-islam.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/the-skeptics-introduction-to-prophet.html

    http://research-islam.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/the-emergence-of-islam.html
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #20 - November 02, 2014, 12:06 PM

    Welcome to the forum, galfromusa, and thanks for sharing your fascinating story with us.

    Quote
    and then there are other less-publicized passages that say that the reason children of non-Jewish women are not Jewish, even if their father is, is because ALL non-Jewish women are prostitutes and highly promiscuous, so there's no way you can be sure the child is yours and have no legal responsibility towards it


    That is quite interesting. Can you give me references for those passages?

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #21 - November 03, 2014, 01:41 AM

    Were you just Orthodox, or Karedi?


    Just Orthodox, more of a Rambamist than anything else, but that was mostly because of my kinda-boyfriend (we were in a sapio-romantic relationship, not a traditional romantic or sexual one, because he's gay and I'm asexual).

    @Naerys:
    Sure, there are a few references, took me a while to find them, because they don't like publishing the Talmud in English for pretty obvious reasons.
    http://www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_98.html#98a_7 ---second paragraph discusses children of non-Jews having no legal fathers, even if their supposed fathers are known, because the non-Jews are so promiscuous. It specifically says Egyptians, but they are basically a stand-in for any non-Jews, because they didn't happen to be in power over the majority of the Jewish people at that time; because the Jewish people spent so much time being ruled by other people, they were always careful to make sure their writings didn't name the people in charge specifically, in case they were to fall into the hands of those who were in charge, which would lead to them being massacred. Again. Consequently, passing information like this on to non-Jews is a capital offense.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #22 - November 03, 2014, 11:43 PM

    Just Orthodox, more of a Rambamist than anything else, but that was mostly because of my kinda-boyfriend (we were in a sapio-romantic relationship, not a traditional romantic or sexual one, because he's gay and I'm asexual).


    I had too look up the meaning of sapio-romantic as I've never heard of it before. This is what I found:

    "One who finds intelligence the most sexually attractive feature."

    Is that right?

    Also - if you don't mind me asking (if you do then ignore me  grin12 ) - have you always been asexual? How did you come to the conclusion that you are asexual? Might it not be that you simply haven't found the right person?

    Sorry for all the questions - I'm just curious Smiley
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #23 - November 04, 2014, 01:56 AM

    @Abu Ali--omg if I had a dollar for everyone who said "maybe you just haven't found the right person".....
    Basically, assuming you're straight (just because that's what most of the people in the world are), would you suck c0ck if you found a man with a great big, handsome d!ck, the world's best lovemaking skills, and a nice personality? Doesn't matter how much you like someone or how good they are in bed, it won't change your sexual orientation. And if you think it would, then your sexual orientation just isn't the one you think it is. I know I'm asexual because I have never felt sexual attraction to anyone. Asexuality, just like every other sexual orientation, is decided for you by biology and neurochemistry long before you are born.
    Sapio-romanticism is loving someone because of their intelligence or knowledge, whereas sapio-sexuality is being sexually attracted to someone because of their intelligence or knowledge. I'm not sapio-sexual, because even when I do fall in love with someone's brain, I'm not sexually attracted to them.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #24 - November 04, 2014, 02:04 AM

    Welcome to the forum galfromusa.    Smiley

    Your posts are almost unreadable due to the lack of paragraphs.  Could you be a bit kinder to us on that score?


      thnkyu

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #25 - November 04, 2014, 02:49 AM

    @cheetah -- Huh? In my first post there's one paragraph that runs a bit long, but otherwise the rest of my posts haven't had paragraphs that are too long. Unless your computer or phone or whatever isn't displaying them correctly. When I was in uni I spent a lot of time being told my paragraphs were too short, so now most of my paragraphs run a bit longer by force of habit. But not too long.....

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #26 - November 04, 2014, 03:31 AM

    I think she might mean that it may help to leave a line between each paragraph.

    Like this.
    As opposed to this.

    Either way, welcome, you are such an interesting person in so many ways, and I look forward to seeing you around Smiley

    Hi
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #27 - November 04, 2014, 06:01 AM

    Ah ok musivore, so I should double space the paragraphs? Can do.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #28 - November 04, 2014, 08:39 AM

    @Naerys:
    Sure, there are a few references, took me a while to find them, because they don't like publishing the Talmud in English for pretty obvious reasons.
    http://www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_98.html#98a_7 ---second paragraph discusses children of non-Jews having no legal fathers, even if their supposed fathers are known, because the non-Jews are so promiscuous. It specifically says Egyptians, but they are basically a stand-in for any non-Jews, because they didn't happen to be in power over the majority of the Jewish people at that time; because the Jewish people spent so much time being ruled by other people, they were always careful to make sure their writings didn't name the people in charge specifically, in case they were to fall into the hands of those who were in charge, which would lead to them being massacred. Again. Consequently, passing information like this on to non-Jews is a capital offense.


    Awesome, thanks  Afro

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Jew-Turned-Muslim-Turned-Atheist
     Reply #29 - November 04, 2014, 07:27 PM

    galfromusa
    galfromusa
    I made a thread a few months ago about similarities between Islam and Judaism

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26947.msg771192#msg771192

    One thing I was wondering is how prevalent the view is that the penal code in the Torah is still part of the law and can potentially be reinstated sometime in the future if certain requirements are fulfilled.

    Its something I find very curious these days.
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