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 Topic: 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…

 (Read 1413 times)
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  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…
     OP - October 26, 2014, 06:33 AM

     banghead banghead banghead banghead banghead

    5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…

    Quote
    Posted on October 20, 2014 by hugowaters

    Let me lay my cards on the table. I am not a religious person. I don’t discount all faiths in their entirety, but I wouldn’t say I believe in enough of any of the mainstream religions to even lean towards one in particular. I do however respect people’s religious beliefs, whilst also myself believing that religion shouldn’t be beyond question or criticism. This article isn’t about me somehow glorifying Islam or putting it’s teachings beyond question. It is about leveling the playing field so we don’t discriminate against the faith significantly more than we do with others. There is a growing consensus that the more liberal-thinking people are wrongly pandering to some sort of Islamic lobby, and in that sense we are aiding a kind of Fox News, Daily Mail Special Addition of The Armageddon. I have been called a ‘traitor’ (and much worse) many times for simply challenging ignorant and bigoted views about Muslims. This article is simply about how when people use the term Muslim in such a broad way, it is not only extremely discriminatory, but also quite simply, stupid.

    1. Female Genital Mutilation is a Muslim problem
    Before we delve into this first point, as I mentioned before, no religion is beyond question, and I’m quite comfortable in making the assertion that all religions are male-dominated. They all still have a very long way to come, both in their views of women in society in general, and also the role of women within the faiths themselves. But it is beyond question that when it comes to discrimination against women, Islam is seen as being way out on it’s own in not only it’s views and attitudes towards women, but it’s treatment of them too.

    The number one worst lie in this respect (and believe me there is a big list) is the portrayal of Female Genital Mutilation (or FGM) being a ‘Muslim problem.’ Now for those who don’t know, this barbaric practice involves babies having an incision (also described as circumcision) without any anesthetic, which essentially removes the clitoris. The deluded reasoning behind the practice is that by removing the clitoris the child will remain pure. Now before we go into facts and figures, there is absolutely nothing in the Quran about FGM. This alone should be enough to prevent people being able to call it a Muslim problem – how can it be when there is nothing in it’s teachings about it? But let’s go further, nowhere in Muslim majority states does this practice occur, apart from in isolated parts of Central Africa. It doesn’t happen anywhere in the Middle East, it doesn’t happen anywhere in North Africa, and it doesn’t happen anywhere in Asia. Furthermore, staying in the same region of Africa, did you know that Ethiopia has a 75% rate of FGM amongst it’s population, and that it’s a Christian majority country? Did you also know that Eritrea has almost 90% of FGM, and again, it is a Christian country? FGM can therefore more accurately described as a regional problem. Consequently, if it only occurs in nations within the same cluster of central Africa, it can quite justifiably be labelled a central African problem. Along with the Quran there is nothing in The Bible about the practice, so the two religions cannot legitimately be brought into the argument. It is a good example of people doing something in-spite of their religion, not because of it. But regardless, I hear of the issue being a ‘Muslim problem’ almost every time there is a debate on it. This is a prime example of the media portraying something to push an agenda, which sadly a large portion of the general public lap-up without question.

    2. Muslim Societies Don’t Advocate Equal Rights
    Again, equal rights for women is lacking in pretty much every part of the world. But as with the previous point, Muslim women seem to be used as the example of an unequal society. The driving ban for women in Saudi Arabia is the main course in the long set-menu of accusations seemingly attributed only to Muslim majority countries. People are very quick to forget that Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world to have such a ban. In fact there is no doubt that the most extreme country when it comes to equality is Saudi Arabia, which is all the more bizarre when you consider that Saudi Arabia is the US and UK’s closest ally in the region. When people talk about how double standards by The West harm it’s relationship within the Middle East as a whole, it’s not a myth, the reputation is earned by our politicians criticising human rights violations, equality issues, and democracy/dictatorship in the poorer countries in the region, whilst simultaneously having friendly relationships with an oil-rich country in Saudi Arabia who have by far the worst rights for women, zero tolerance for other religions, and not only do they not have any elections, the country is named after the family that rule it and probably always will be. Did you know for example that in the month following The West’s offensive against ISIS that Saudi Arabia beheaded 19 people? 19 people in 4 weeks. No-one knows what they did, and they definitely don’t seem interested in finding out or telling anyone about it either. Of course ISIS is a problem, but it’s the blatant hypocrisy of going to war (and literally flooding the news with nothing else in the process) against a group of people you could fit into an averagely sized football stadium while perpetuating a myth that it’s really against some sort of Islamic ideology that all 1.6 billion of the worlds Muslims believe in, in addition to selling the most extreme nation our weapons is what gives our leaders in The West a bad rap, and deservedly so.

    Using the driving ban in Saudi Arabia as leverage against all Muslims worldwide would be the equivalent of using Uganda’s anti-gay laws – which currently advocate homosexuals being hunted down by the authorities, beaten freely, and sentenced to 12 years in jail, as leverage against Christianity. With Uganda being an 84% Christian country and the majority of the population lobbying to go even further and allow the death penalty to be used as the punishment for homosexuality, not once was the fact that they were a Christian country even brought up. Yet in stark contrast, stoning in Iran and the driving ban in Saudi Arabia are very much thought of as Muslim problems. The anti-gay law in Uganda is a Ugandan problem, stoning in Iran is an Iranian problem, the driving ban in Saudi Arabia is a Saudi Arabian problem. At best these points can be described as regional problems, as with the FGM point above, but how can they be classed as Christian or Muslim problems if the overwhelming majority of people within the faiths don’t do it?

    Within Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim majority state with a population of 250 million, females have exactly the same rights as males, which I definitely wouldn’t say is represented in our media’s portrayal of the faith. But we’ll get onto how facts like these can be conveniently disregarded later in the article.

    A few more facts about women’s equality in what people would describe as the Muslim world:

    While the USA is still waiting for it’s first female president – did you know that Muslim majority countries have elected 7 female head of states in the last 50 years? In fact, continuing with politics, it’s also worth mentioning that the USA only has 18% of women currently elected to run and serve their country – that’s even less than Saudi Arabia, driving ban and all, who at 19.9% only started allowing women to even be elected a year ago. Further still that’s even less again than Pakistan, another nation who need to come a long way in regards to gender equality but somehow further beat the US at 20.7%. Like I’ve said, by no means am I saying that women in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia have a sweet deal, in fact I feel very comfortable in stating that women’s rights in those two particular countries leave a hell of a lot to be desired. So the fact that they have more women involved in their governments than the USA is particularly scorning at a time when extreme measures are being taken worldwide to increase female participation in politics.

    3. Most Muslims are Arabs
    One of the main reasons the issues above are misunderstood by so many people is that large parts of Western society believe that all or most Muslims are of Arabic origin and only live in the Middle East. When people are negatively ranting about Muslims they are usually referring to people in Middle Eastern countries, particularly the troubled spots they hear about on the news virtually all day, every day. States that often have hugely complex issues where frankly outside antagonists from both Western countries, along with China and Russia do not help. But all that aside it’s staggering to think that there are actually more Muslims living in Malaysia and Indonesia, countries which are both in Asia, than the whole of the Middle East and North Africa combined. In fact some may find it surprising that only around 25% of the worlds Muslims actually live in that particular region. About the same (if not slightly more) of the worlds Christians live on the African continent. Regardless of this, when people are talking about Christians I doubt the image they have in their mind is of a native Malawian, Ugandan, or Zimbabwean. The truth is that no other faith is so crudely generalised as the Muslim faith. Whenever atrocities occur in the Middle East, we always hear of how the ‘Muslim world’ or ‘Muslim Community’ needs come out and distance themselves or even apologise for the acts. Why would leading clerics or politicians in largely peaceful countries such as Malaysia, Turkey, Bangladesh, or Indonesia have to apologise for something that has happened in a competely different country by people with which they have virtually nothing in common with. The paradoxical equivalent that the Christian leaders in the UK would have needed to come out to apologise for Anders Breivik’s terrorist attacks in Norway sounds completely insane, and it is. The fact that the majority of the world’s Muslims live in the far east, in more secular countries which don’t advocate extremism, is a massive inconvenience for the media. It is so easy to get the general public on side if they project the idea of some sort of global religious war, one where a whole religion is actively setting out to eradicate other faiths and non-believers. I know it’s easy because I know so many people who genuinely believe that it is happening. The people I’m talking about aren’t exclusively made up of those paranoid delusional social media users who continue to baffle me with each comment on news feeds or Facebook posts. They are people I know in my personal life. But my question to them is: if you know that the idea you have in your head of what a Muslim is cannot possibly be correct, how can you continue to be so bigoted and make such outrageously ignorant statements about them?

    4. “Most Muslims are Terrorists”
    Some of this has been covered in the previous section but I’d like to explore just the terrorism part alone, together with some facts and figures. Our media is often quite rightly accused of scaremongering, and excessively flooding pages and air-time with exaggerated fear about terrorism. Fear, in-particularly related to race, religion or immigration satisfies their agenda in diverting the general public’s attention away from the very real economic situation we are in – an aspect of society which unsurprisingly large parts of the mainstream media and leaders in the country have a vested interest in. An exaggerated media predictably leads to a large proportion of the general public being so wide of the mark and misinformed in their understanding of some really important issues. We hear regularly from Fox News anchors and Daily Mail journalists that around 10% of Muslims are terrorists. Predictably a lot of the general public estimate the figure to be significantly higher. We hear 20%, 30%, or in some cases the numerical system is seemingly discounted all together and ‘most’ Muslims are branded as terrorists (presumably the non-figure of ‘most’ implies that the number has to be greater than 50%) which is simply ludicrous, but there’s no doubt that we’ve all seen or heard it. Now even just using the 10% figure, which I would say is very much on the conservative side of what many people (particularly those I’m aiming this piece at) genuinely think: 10% of 1.6 billion is obviously 160 million. If there was 160 million Islamic Terrorists in the world as a group they would equal more than ten times the amount of active members of the US Army, which in itself is the second biggest armed forces in the world, and the biggest in the Western World by a huge margin. Logically the figure has to be inaccurate, or as mentioned there would most definitely be more than 20 to 30 thousand members of ISIS. Again, I’m not saying ISIS aren’t a problem, but the group equate to approximately 0.002% of the world’s Muslims, so if you therefore feel comfortable labeling them a Muslim problem then you have been well and truly reeled in, and you most certainly are one of the people to whom I’d be asking the question which concluded my last topic. Now I know that ISIS aren’t standing alone in the arena of Islamic terrorism, but using a generally excepted definition of the word terrorist i.e. someone who uses violence or terror to advance political gains, there can’t possibly be 160 million active Islamic terrorists in the world, especially bearing in mind that there are only 315 million Muslims living in the whole of the Middle East and North Africa. Given that this is the region we are told to be most worried about, and that this would falsely imply that over half of the entire population of Muslims in the region are terrorists (a part of the world comprised of approximately 22 different countries, many of whom are our allies) then no wonder people are worried. You see when the right-wing media outlets in The West report on Muslims, they don’t mean those in Indonesia, or Malaysia, or Bangladesh, or Turkey. It’s simply much easier to pretend that these countries don’t exist, as they are a total contradiction to their constant propaganda that Muslim majority countries can’t be moderate or secular. Even further, and I don’t apologise for stressing the point again, the fact that these countries also far outnumber the population of Muslim majority countries in the Middle East, it is absolutely scandalous that they are allowed to just disregard such a huge proportion of the faith they almost continually report on.

    5. The Quran Promotes Extremism
    One of the easiest and quickest methods right-wingers use to get Joe-public on their side (a tactic I’ve seen used very frequently by groups such as the English Defence League, and the British National Party) is quoting passages out of The Quran in isolation. We hear of how Islam, through the teachings in The Quran, is condoning the killing of non-believers as well as encouraging the stoning of women for adultery, amongst other things. This next bit is easy, here are some of the values promoted in The Bible, do please click on the links to be taken to the full passage:

    - Kill people for working Sundays: Exodus 31:12-15
    - Kill Homosexuals: Leviticus 20:13
    - Kill people for swearing at parents: Leviticus 20:9
    - Kill non-believers: 2 Chronicles 15:12-13
    - Kill women who are not virgins on their wedding night: Deuteronomy 22:20-21

    (I should add that this was all found after only searching for about 5 minutes)

    In Conclusion
    The whole label of ‘Islamic Extremism’ simply cannot be applied to all Muslims if it obviously isn’t true. Sure some Muslim majority countries have issues with religious extremism, but that is their problem, not Islam as a whole’s problem. When you describe the fictional idea of ‘The Muslim World’ what you are essentially doing is grouping together 1.6 billion people made up of different races and nationalities, who live on different continents, who have different cultures, histories, economies, wealth, living standards, practices, who enjoy different art and music, and you are lumping them all together as if they are all the same. You are suggesting that Turkey is the same as Saudi Arabia, that Malaysia is the same as Iran. It just simply isn’t true. In contrast you would struggle to even get a general Christian consensus between those within the faith in the United States and United Kingdom, let alone than with others in Russia (where recent polling suggests Christianity is at 65%), Uganda, Zimbabwe, Mexico, or any other of the Christian majority nations. If it is virtually impossible to define what a globally accepted form of Christianity would look like, why are we so quick to presume that we can do it with Islam?

    As I said at the start, I’m not for or against any religion. But what I am against is singling-out one particular religion as being significantly worse than the others, when in reality that just simply isn’t true. Couple this with the fact that the reasons for perpetuating such a myth are so blatantly corrupt. It essentially pushes an agenda that is undoubtedly going against many of the people’s values who have been reeled in. That, my friends is the real problem. There will always be a far-right, and there will always be racism. But when it’s sane, reasonable people who are being warped into believing that a whole race or religion can be classed as a problem that needs a solution, well, we all know where that belief takes you don’t we…

    If you agree with the points in this article then please follow @Hugo_Waters on Twitter HERE

    Or like his Page on Facebook HERE


    Quote
    @Hugo_Waters
    Amazing that my myth-busting piece on Muslims has had 120,000 readers in 5 days! Please read and RT hugowaters.com/2014/10/20/5-t…

     mysmilie_977

    Quote
    <[SA]HatfulOfHollow> i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet

     finmad

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…
     Reply #1 - October 26, 2014, 07:37 AM


    hi Nikolaj., write me something that you think is wrong on what that fellow wrote.. And twitter word there with a link to CEMB forum on his article...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…
     Reply #2 - October 26, 2014, 08:02 AM

    Quote
    It doesn’t happen anywhere in the Middle East, it doesn’t happen anywhere in North Africa, and it doesn’t happen anywhere in Asia.


    "The Demographic and Health Survey in Egypt in 2000 showed that 97% of married women included in the survey had experienced female genital cutting (i.e. FGM). Another study by the Egyptian Ministry of Health and Population in 2003 reported that over 94% of married women had been exposed to genital cutting and 69% of those women agreed to the procedure being carried out on their daughters. Further, a pilot study by the Health Insurance Organization showed that 41% of female students in primary, preparatory and secondary schools had undergone genital cutting."
    WHO on FGM in Egypt
    I am pretty sure Egypt is in North Africa.

    'A 2003 study by the Population Council found that 22 percent of 1,307 female circumcision cases were excisions, meaning part of the clitoris or labia was removed. Of the rest, 49 percent involved incisions while 28 percent were “symbolic.”'
    Indonesia Ignores UN Ban on Female Circumcision, Denies Mutilation

    “Circumcision is a part of the Islamic teachings that were recommended for Muslims, both male and female,” Amrisyah said at MUI headquarters as quoted by Antara news agency. “The MUI and Islamic organizations in the country firmly stand against any efforts to ban female circumcision.”
    Indonesian Ulema Council promotes FGM
    I am pretty sure Indonesia is in Asia

    "FGM, as practiced in Kurdistan, is the cutting of the clitoris of girls in order to curb their sexual desire and preserve their so-called sexual honor before marriage."
    [...]
    "In 2010, WADI published a comprehensive scientific study, which analyzes the rates of FGM and its indicators. The FGM rate of 72.7% was even higher than preliminary findings could predict. Urban areas are turned out to be as affected as the countryside. Information on the difference provinces of Iraqi Kurdistan is available through the interactive map"
    FGM in Kurdistan
    I am pretty sure Kurdistan is in the Middle East

    From the original article:
    Quote
    Within Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim majority state with a population of 250 million, females have exactly the same rights as males

    "Polygamy is legal in Indonesia and a man may take up to four wives, as allowed by Islam."
    Wikipedia: Polygamy in Indonesia


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…
     Reply #3 - October 26, 2014, 08:06 AM

    Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren’t true…
     Reply #4 - October 26, 2014, 08:34 AM

    100,000 women in UK subject to FGM_CEMB1

    FGM continues despite tough laws_CEMB2

    Uncircumcised girls are faithless _ Egypt._CEMB3

    FGM and Islam._CEMB4

    Council Of Muslims declares FGM ' Un-Islamic ._CEMB5

    FGM ._CEMB6

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren?t true?
     Reply #5 - October 26, 2014, 08:50 AM

    That was the worst piece of shit I've read in a long time.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • 5 things idiots believe about Muslims which just aren?t true?
     Reply #6 - October 26, 2014, 09:06 AM

    It reminded me of this by opinion piece by Malaysian Zurairi AR:

    The Muslim world wants White Knights, not critics

    Quote
    OCTOBER 12 — We have to at least “thank” comic and host Bill Maher for bringing up the topic of what it means to be a Muslim in the Western world. By now, many of us are aware of his CNN interview with comparative religion scholar Reza Aslan; and the subsequent Real Talk forum with actor and activist Ben Affleck.

    You might also have read a number of commentaries of the two significant media appearances, of which this article you are reading now will also be one.

    The initial reactions have been almost celebratory of Aslan and Affleck: The former for ripping into host Maher, and the latter against Maher (again) and his fellow panelist author and neuroscientist Sam Harris. On both occasions, Maher and Harris were associated with “racism,” “bigotry,” and “hatred of Muslims” for their description of the faith and its adherents.

    To those familiar with Maher and Harris, this was not entirely unprecedented. Both are staunch critics of religions, not just Islam.

    It is hard to imagine that their harsh attacks will help their cause to change the minds of those they attack, added to the fact of their privileges as white men.

    This had unfortunately caused them to be perceived as hostile to Islam — and in return receive hostile receptions, as Harris accused Affleck of doing — but I do feel that it is the challenge universally faced by those who criticise Islam, at least from their fellow secular liberals.

    Post 9-11, the Muslim world has been positioning itself as victims of persecution. This is not an untrue claim, for there are many documented cases of Muslims being harassed, abused, and discriminated against, particularly in the West. However, the stance has also been used as a shield against valid criticism.

    We can argue how it is incorrect to label critics of Islam as “racist” (considering Islam is not a race), or “Islamophobes” (considering these critics do not really fear Islam), but the labels are being used nonetheless to stifle discussions.

    This is compounded when secular liberals themselves join the narrative, and accuse Muslim critics of doing so, sometimes for instant credibility — much like the credibility Affleck has received with Muslims online.

    But the problem is two-fold too; Muslim critics are not only facing challenges from fellow secular liberals, but also from Muslims themselves. Which is no surprise really.

    There is this feeling that most Muslims are not so receptive towards a “moderation” or reform of their faith. Instead, they seek White Knights — those who defend Islam in the face of what they perceive as increased attacks from their “enemies”, whether secular or from another religion.

    Incidentally, these White Knights also happen to be white — men and women from the Western world, who perhaps for argument’s sake can be defined as Anglo or European in ethnicity.

    Some of you might ask, why would Muslims look up to these white men, when some of them feel that the West, particularly the US, is “evil”?

    I believe the answer speaks for itself. When white men themselves defend Islam, it signals a triumph for the Muslims, that they have turned the West to their way of thinking. To put it bluntly, those Western folks have seen the light, the “hidayah” that Allah shows to those He wishes to guide to His path.

    The second reason might be the reach, or the influence that white men have in influencing opinion from their privileged status. Which is perhaps why some Muslims go crazy when Western celebrities convert to Islam, either in reality or in rumours.

    In the rise of the next wave of Islamic extremism — with the militant group Islamic State (IS) as its face — much has been said about the need for “moderate Muslims” or reform within Islam, a point summarised recently by Pakistani-Canadian writer Ali A. Rizvi in his “An Open Letter to Moderate Muslims”.

    You can understand how heavy the inertia is towards the idea by how well it has been received by certain Muslims, which is to say not well at all.

    There is a simple reason why most Muslims prefer their White Knights instead of their critics: They believe that Islam is perfect and infallible.

    Most Muslims believe that Islam as a religion can never be faulted for anything, and instead the fault lies with the way believers practise it. This means that it is the “moderates” who are not practising Islam the way it is meant to, by cherry-picking verses of the Quran and the Hadith, and by not taking holy texts literally.

    We see this even in Malaysia, when the religious authorities decided to flex their muscles against Indonesian liberal scholar Dr Uli Abshar Abdalla to prevent him from joining a forum to tackle extremism here.
    In this regard, I am inclined to agree with the fundamentalists. I think moderate Muslims are being dishonest with themselves, by accepting positive parts of Islam but disassociating themselves and ignoring the negative parts.

    Despite this, I do not feel cherry-picking is morally wrong. Because the opposite, taking holy texts literally is what led to Islamic militancy and extremism in recent times. This has led to jihadists projecting their desire to fulfil their “Islamic obligation” to subdue others into the religion, by justifying their violent actions using the holy texts.

    The challenges are many, but I feel the way forward is to not let the critique of Islam be dominated by white voices — the likes of Harris and fellow New Atheists — who might have paved the way for criticism, but are certainly losing their relevance in this field.

    To this, I think those with Muslim heritage will play a more effective role in reaching out. So watch out for these names: Kenan Malik, Maryam Namazie, Maajid Nawaz, Jim al-Khalili, Taslima Nasreen, Alom Shaha, Tarek Fatah, and perhaps even Irshad Manji.



    Would add the Iraqi Shia secularist cleric Ayad Jamal al-Din to that list. And probably take Tarek Fatah off it.

    And in other news from Malaysia:

    Kelantan palace to get professionals, not doctors to amputate hudud offenders

    (Kelantan, a sultanate, is one of the thirteen states of the federation of Malaysia)

    Quote
    KUALA LUMPUR, Oct 23 — PAS-led Kelantan is inching closer to rolling out its controversial hudud law next year, having settled the issue of who will carry out the amputation of limbs for convicted offenders after the country’s medical doctors balked at performing the deed.

    The amputation will be done by “trained professionals” appointed by the state sultan, New Straits Times reported today, citing Datuk Dr Mohamed Fadzli Hassan, the deputy chairman of the state technical committee on the Syariah Criminal Code II Enactment.

    “It was recommended that the job be carried out by trained professionals appointed by the sultan. Their duty will be to carry out the amputations and nothing else.”

    “It was also suggested that the sentence be carried out at a place other than hospitals, as hospitals are a place for healing, not to carry out sentences,” Mohamed Fadzli was quoted saying.

    He credited the proposal on ways to execute hudud punishments to a team of muftis, academics and professionals during a two-day discussion in Kota Baru that ended Tuesday.

    The state official said his committee is putting the recommendations from the two-day discussion and will present it to the state executive council for consideration soon.

    Mohamed Fadzli was also reported saying the committee had visited several several countries that have already implemented the controversial Islamic penal code, but added that those countries did not have a full or detailed standard of enforcement.

    The news report did not name the countries.

    In April, the Malaysian Medical Association (MMA) said it will seek to disqualify surgeons who perform the unethical amputations on criminals convicted under hudud in Kelantan.

    Datuk Dr NKS Tharmaseelan, the MMA president, had stressed that doctors are bound by their professional ethics to do no harm.


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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