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 Topic: Woman in Islam, according to this website:

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  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     OP - October 05, 2014, 01:43 AM
    So I was talking to a religious cozen of mine and woman in Islam came up, he redirected me to this site:

    http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/status_of_women_in_islam.php

    (one thing I always notice when speaking to him, is he never really explains what he thinks, or his understanding, he always redirects me to some random Islamic website)

    What do you guys think, take your time, I want to ask him some questions:

    "If woman are truly equals in Islam, then WHY:

    1. Cant they lead the azan?
    2. do they stand behind or separate from men?
    3. can men have multiple wives, but woman cant?
    4. does it say 2 woman are equal to one mans eye witness testimony?
    5. does it explicitly say in the Quran men are "above them by degree"? 2:228 , 4:34 (yes, you will try and use the later translation made by woman, but the older MORE TRUE translation states this)"

    any one else have some input? I really want to find enough info to make him actually PICK UP AND READ HIS OWN HOLY BOOK.

    .....no but seriously guys....have you noticed how little "muslims" actually read and understand the Quran?
    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #1 - October 05, 2014, 02:00 AM
    #2 is too easy. They are going to respond with 24:32.
    #4 I have been told is about a certain kind of difficult financial transaction and it only applies in that certain transaction. I would be interested if you got that response, ever.
    Yeah, I have never been told that women are equal in the dunya, just equal as believers/souls, to be judged by God. I would be surprised if a Muslim man told you that women are equal to men, in status. In value, I have heard, but not status in the household.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #2 - October 05, 2014, 08:04 AM
    I've heard a lot of men say that, but they seem to have different definition on equality. The thing is, most people say like three that women are equal in soul and deeds. But that is simply not true. There are certain deeds that are valued differently for men and women and some are even unattainable for us. For example, reward for praying in congregation, or why not jihad. Even if a woman dies as a shaheedah, she won't be getting any virgins... and don't forget that due to women being viewed as intrinsically inferior and beneath men, women are for example not even sentenced with death according to some scholars for apostasy. Lesbianism is hardly discussed because sex without male penetration wasn't really viewed as zina.

    So no, even in soul and deeds, women are definitely not viewed as equals.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #3 - October 05, 2014, 08:12 AM
    Quote from: lest we regress on October 05, 2014, 01:43 AM
    .....no but seriously guys....have you noticed how little "muslims" actually read and understand the Quran?

    Yes. However when I point that out I am an Islamophobe. Stupid white name.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #4 - October 05, 2014, 08:46 AM
    We're not equal here nor in jannah, look on the bright side though ladies, chins up, by the mercy of Allah we do get to become the queen of our 72 houris gifted to our husbands (if youve got one that hasn't p**sed off in this life lol) and as a bonus we will be graced with more beauty than thems celestial virgins, such priviledges.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #5 - October 05, 2014, 09:07 AM
    1.  She can't lead Azan because of the prostration part of prayer, you see, according to islam, guys can't multi task and focus on both Allah and his filth thoughts all at once lol, actually what woman would want to prostrate infront of a congregation of men lol

    I think women make great religious leaders anyway, it seems very natural to see a female priest/vicar etc.  What really gets to me is that female muslim singers are ommited from nasheed shows, incase guys have corrupt thoughts while watching them sing ?  Islam got that all wrong, if we take a look at western music and all the music idols we've had over the generations, who are the ones going crazy over the singers, the girls.. 

    The degree above a woman thing in the quran, an apologist will say it means that a guy has certain responsibilites that make him a degree above his woman because of his strength and ability to protect his family and community, but really it means i have power over you woman, accept it, step down and worship me  : )
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #6 - October 05, 2014, 09:11 AM
    Quote from: suki on October 05, 2014, 09:07 AM
    1.  She can't lead Azan because of the prostration part of prayer, you see, according to islam, guys can't multi task and focus on both Allah and his filth thoughts all at once lol, actually what woman would want to prostrate infront of a congregation of men lol

    I think women make great religious leaders anyway, it seems very natural to see a female priest/vicar etc.  What really gets to me is that female muslim singers are ommited from nasheed shows, incase guys have corrupt thoughts while watching them sing ? Islam got that all wrong, if we take a look at western music and all the music idols we've had over the generations, who are the ones going crazy over the singers, the girls.. 

    The degree above a woman thing in the quran, an apologist will say it means that a guy has certain responsibilites that make him a degree above his woman because of his strength and ability to protect his family and community, but really it means i have power over you woman, accept it, step down and worship me  : )


    Maybe that is the point!
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #7 - October 05, 2014, 09:16 AM
    Ha ha yeah...  never thought of it that way lol
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #8 - October 05, 2014, 09:17 AM
    Instead of trying to explain things away and make square pegs fit in round holes, isn't it better to ask where do these ideas really come from?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #9 - October 05, 2014, 09:28 AM
    Quote from: three on October 05, 2014, 02:00 AM

    #4 I have been told is about a certain kind of difficult financial transaction and it only applies in that certain transaction. I would be interested if you got that response, ever.
    Yeah, I have never been told that women are equal in the dunya, just equal as believers/souls, to be judged by God. I would be surprised if a Muslim man told you that women are equal to men, in status. In value, I have heard, but not status in the household.


    And compeltely disregarding the sahih hadith of Muhammad when he states that this is on account of a deficiency in a womans intelligence.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #10 - October 05, 2014, 10:14 AM
    Quote from: moi on October 05, 2014, 09:17 AM
    Instead of trying to explain things away and make square pegs fit in round holes, isn't it better to ask where do these ideas really come from?


    ^
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #11 - October 05, 2014, 12:58 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on October 05, 2014, 09:28 AM
    And compeltely disregarding the sahih hadith of Muhammad when he states that this is on account of a deficiency in a womans intelligence.


    Yeah, I thought we were going off of just Quranic stuff with that list. If you want to use Hadith then women are pretty much soulless and vile beings who ought to be locked up in the house so men can get on with their lives.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #12 - October 05, 2014, 11:34 PM
    Quote from: moi on October 05, 2014, 09:17 AM
    Instead of trying to explain things away and make square pegs fit in round holes, isn't it better to ask where do these ideas really come from?


    I like where you are going with this



    The more you try and obtain nirvana, the further you are from it.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #13 - October 06, 2014, 01:40 AM
    Quote from: lest we regress on October 05, 2014, 01:43 AM
    So I was talking to a religious cozen of mine


    I'm assuming you mean cousin?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #14 - October 08, 2014, 03:09 PM
    I would love for a matriarchal or sex-equal, LGBT-inclusive life philosophy to arise and replace all the religions out there. As long as men propagate the bullshit that only aggressive and vicious men or men-like women are fit to lead, the world will continue to swirl down the drain.

    As for being queen of 72 houris, that means watching over a harem of... Grapes?  grin12
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #15 - October 08, 2014, 04:04 PM
    https://twitter.com/CEMB_forum/status/519873995349700608

    Interesting thread on this issue here.
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #16 - October 08, 2014, 04:17 PM
    Just posted this hadith on that twitter thread^

    Quote
    Rifa`a divorced his wife whereupon `AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. `Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came,  `Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When `AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, `Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa`a." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa`a unless `Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) saw two boys with `Abdur- Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that `AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"

  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #17 - October 08, 2014, 04:23 PM
    Link? Can't seem to see it!
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #18 - October 08, 2014, 04:25 PM
    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/77/42
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #19 - October 08, 2014, 04:31 PM
    Hehe, no on twitter, can't see it!
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #20 - October 08, 2014, 04:38 PM
    https://twitter.com/SomaliWanderer/status/519883575915999232
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #21 - October 08, 2014, 04:44 PM
    Interesting that this hadeeth basically confirms that women's position and lifestyle and status in reality really got worse. There are several narrations that also talk about the cultural differences between Makkah and Madinah concerning women's status and rights, seems the ansari women had it a lot better than their muhajir sisters. No wonder women from the higher classes were so opposed against Mo and his ramblings, just look at Hind.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Woman in Islam, according to this website:
     Reply #22 - October 08, 2014, 04:45 PM
    Yup, hence my response to skywalker on that thread.
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