Was Mo a racist?

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Was Mo a racist?
OP - September 29, 2014, 05:05 PM

Reading through some Hadiths and I come across such things like ''I heard the Apostle say: (ishaq 243) ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.”

Also, we have this gem from Bukhari:
Quote
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 662:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Listen and obey (your chief) even if an Ethiopian whose head is like a raisin were made your chief."

And yet, during his last sermon, we have all that stuff about ''an arab has no superiority over a non arab (and vice versa), a black has no superiority over a white (and vice versa).

Was Mo a racist?
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Reply #1 - September 29, 2014, 05:06 PM

I think he was black dogist!

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Reply #2 - September 29, 2014, 05:11 PM

He was far more insulting to the Turks.

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`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
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Reply #3 - September 29, 2014, 05:39 PM

Quote from: JayMac on September 29, 2014, 05:05 PM
And yet, during his last sermon, we have all that stuff about ''an arab has no superiority over a non arab (and vice versa), a black has no superiority over a white (and vice versa).

The earliest versions of the farewell sermon (contemporaneous or earlier than those hadiths) does not contain that thing about racial equality. That was from a much later period, I think it is Shia in origin.

I don't think the early Arabs (from Muhammad's time and the time of hadiths) had much of a concept of "races" in the modern sense. The Arabs were a people with their own language and culture, and they understood that people from Africa had darker skin, and according to the hadiths, they considered that to be ugly, or frightful. But I am not sure they divided humanity up into distinct "races". They considered themselves, the Arab blood line to be superior to the rest because God had chosen them to rule the rest, not because of a biological superiority.
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Was Mo a racist?
Reply #4 - September 29, 2014, 09:01 PM

Nah, he wasn't racist. He'd damn to hell anyone who didn't agree with him, no matter the race.
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Reply #5 - September 30, 2014, 07:27 AM

Considering Bilal and his alliance with the Ethiopian christians, No.

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Reply #6 - September 30, 2014, 03:00 PM

In the early Islamic period it was considered an insult to question somebody's lineage and suggest that they were not 100% Arab, or to suggest that some of their descendants had been slaves. So I guess they did have a concept of Arab racial purity. Arab culture was always obsessed with lineages, each tribe was named "bani so-and-so" which means the "sons of so and so". We know that this dated back at least to the time of the ancient Greeks because when they described the people of Arabia, they also described some of the names of tribes as "bani so and so".

Incidentally none of the names of tribes that the Greeks described are the same as the names of tribes during Muhammad's time though. Which probably means that the old lineages were constantly forgotten through wars, intermarriage, etc. And new "lineages" were created when new strong men united different peoples into new tribes.
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Reply #7 - September 30, 2014, 03:05 PM

No, racism was invented mid nineteenth century?

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Reply #8 - September 30, 2014, 03:16 PM

JayMac says
Quote from: JayMac on September 29, 2014, 05:05 PM

Was Mo a racist?
.............

Who is Mo? which Mo are you talking about JayMac?

Quote from: moi on September 30, 2014, 03:05 PM
No, racism was invented mid nineteenth century?

No it may not have been invented in 19th century., you could go back to 15th century and start from there .,but it has been used by the west and western Rulers in 19th century to propagate their power/politics/kingdoms. And those guys usually had that mind set of "other races were inferior to them" and it propagated to west/east and every where in different forms in 20th century, if not racism through skin color..

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Reply #9 - September 30, 2014, 04:00 PM

didn't he also call black people pugnosed slaves?
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Reply #10 - September 30, 2014, 04:10 PM

Quote from: serpentofeden on September 30, 2014, 04:00 PM
didn't he also call black people pugnosed slaves?

do you have any link of hadith or Islamic/Anti Islamic story on that serpentofeden... The closets I heard is

"You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian slave whose head looks like a raisin." (Bukhari)

But when I am questioning that existence Muhammad that is described in Quran as well hadith iself., then what this alleged Muhammad and said doesn't arise.. anyways.. let me give you this to start with..

Quote
referred to Blacks as "raisin heads". (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256).

Mohammed is quoted as saying that Blacks are, "pug-nosed slaves". (Sahih Moslem vol. 9 pages 46 and 47).

Hadith; vol.9:162,163: Muhammad warned that dreams of black women meant disease was forthcoming.

"I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks.... Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'" ~Ishaq 243

"Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them." ~Tabari II:21

"It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah's army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent." ~Ishaq 450

"The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.'" ~Ishaq 374

"The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.'" ~Bukhari:

rest we will discuss later..

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Reply #11 - September 30, 2014, 04:54 PM

Quote
"Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them." ~Tabari II:21

This was commonly used by white slavers as their justification. I know it is in Genesis but is the idea of races actually an Islamic invention?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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