#MuslimApologies

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OP - September 24, 2014, 01:42 PM

So this is doing the rounds on Twitter - Muslims apologising for all the gifts Muslims have bestowed upon this world:

From this Huffington Post article.

Stumbled into by this post on Mehdi Hasan's Facebook page.

Muslim feeling of supremacy meets Muslim feeling of victimisation?

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Reply #1 - September 24, 2014, 02:06 PM

Hmm...

Ian David Morris debunks that last claim here:

A mosque, a muslimah and a little white lie

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Reply #2 - September 24, 2014, 03:32 PM

Holy shit, I just looked up the hash-tag and that's almost as bad as the youtube comments you'd find on "EVOLUTION DEBUNKED!" videos.

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Reply #3 - September 24, 2014, 04:04 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on September 24, 2014, 01:42 PM
So this is doing the rounds on Twitter - Muslims apologising for all the gifts Muslims have bestowed upon this world:

(Clicky for piccy!)

From this Huffington Post article.

Stumbled into by this post on Mehdi Hasan's Facebook page.

Muslim feeling of supremacy meets Muslim feeling of victimisation?

well that is all good.. Muslim folks of the past did contribute to science, did contribute to humanity and people born in Islam did this, that., aerodynamics, trigonometry and what not.,

BUT., BUT WHAT IS THAT HAS TO DO WITH ISLAM, QURAN, HADITH? In fact the credit goes to them., because they did in-spite of STUPID RULES OF ISLAM. and not because of Islam.

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Reply #4 - September 24, 2014, 04:23 PM

I understand why Muslims feel defensive when some bigots hold all Muslims collectively responsible for violence committed by jihadis, but there are some deeply held levels of delusion and supremacism on display here

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Reply #5 - September 24, 2014, 04:36 PM

No need to apologise for something you didn't do.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #6 - September 24, 2014, 06:54 PM

Quote from: billy on September 24, 2014, 04:23 PM
I understand why Muslims feel defensive when some bigots hold all Muslims collectively responsible for violence committed by jihadis, but there are some deeply held levels of delusion and supremacism on display here

Muslims are held "collectively responsible" for the following reason:
- Muslim consider themselves belong to one Ummah.
- Muslims react collectively - for example Danish cartoon controversy.
- Muslims stay silent when Muslims commit violence against Muslims and non-Muslims.
- Muslims almost never condemn fellow Muslims - for example when Saddam Husein killed Kurds in Halabja or Syrians killing 20 thousand Palestinians in 1980's.
- Muslims collectively utter inanities such as: This is not real Islam. He is not a real Muslim. True Muslims do not lie.
So on..........

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Reply #7 - September 24, 2014, 07:07 PM

Groups of Muslims according to Mr. Ram
Quote from: Ram on September 24, 2014, 06:54 PM
Muslims are held "collectively responsible" for the following reason:

Group_1 - Muslim consider themselves belong to one Ummah.

Group_2- Muslims react collectively - for example Danish cartoon controversy.
- Muslims stay silent when Muslims commit violence against Muslims and non-Muslims.

Group_3- Muslims almost never condemn fellow Muslims - for example when Saddam Husein killed Kurds in Halabja or Syrians killing 20 thousand Palestinians in 1980's.

Group_4- Muslims collectively utter inanities such as: This is not real Islam. He is not a real Muslim. True Muslims do not lie.
So on..........

Well you made at least 4 types of Muslims and I can make more groups from Muslim folks.,

Clearly they all can not be same except w.r.t. Quran and Muhammad

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Reply #8 - September 24, 2014, 07:12 PM

Quote from: Ram on September 24, 2014, 06:54 PM
Muslims are held "collectively responsible" for the following reason:
- Muslim consider themselves belong to one Ummah.
- Muslims react collectively - for example Danish cartoon controversy.
- Muslims stay silent when Muslims commit violence against Muslims and non-Muslims.
- Muslims almost never condemn fellow Muslims - for example when Saddam Husein killed Kurds in Halabja or Syrians killing 20 thousand Palestinians in 1980's.
- Muslims collectively utter inanities such as: This is not real Islam. He is not a real Muslim. True Muslims do not lie.
So on..........

Holding Muslims collectively responsible is wrong all the same. Islamist 'logic' asserts these things, they aren't true though, and we don't need to buy into their narratives

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Reply #9 - September 24, 2014, 07:43 PM

Muslims collectively hold non-Muslims responsible for their problems. Read Pakistani newspapers. When Pastor Terry Jones was planning to burn 1000 copies of the Quran, he was condemned by almost everyone in the US, even in churche services. Nobody said, "he is not a real Christian" or "this is not Christianity". Every one, including the US president condmned him without reservation.

Just few examples - Muslims say:
- Islam teaches tolerance. But non-Muslims are not tolerated in Muslim countries.
- Islam teaches respect for all religions. It is not true when you listen to mullahs and imams.
- Islam respects women. The testimony of a woman is worth 1/2 that of a Muslim man in a legal court.
- Islam values education. Real education is rejected and condemned.

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Reply #10 - September 24, 2014, 07:50 PM

not all Muslims do or say that Ram. Quit the collective guilt apologetics. This forum isn't the place for it.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Reply #11 - September 24, 2014, 08:08 PM

Quote from: Ram on September 24, 2014, 07:43 PM
.............Pakistan..................
Just few examples - Muslims say:
- Islam teaches tolerance. But non-Muslims are not tolerated in Muslim countries.
- Islam teaches respect for all religions. It is not true when you listen to mullahs and imams.
- Islam respects women. The testimony of a woman is worth 1/2 that of a Muslim man in a legal court.
- Islam values education. Real education is rejected and condemned.

.Pakistan........Pakistan. and .Pakistan...well let me make you bit happy Mr. Ram..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuQtFsxEhk0

That show is very very popular in Pakistan.... so take it bit easy

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Reply #12 - September 25, 2014, 04:52 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on September 24, 2014, 04:04 PM
BUT., BUT WHAT IS THAT HAS TO DO WITH ISLAM, QURAN, HADITH? In fact the credit goes to them., because they did in-spite of STUPID RULES OF ISLAM. and not because of Islam.

Exactly, agree with this 100%.

Also, it is incredibly arrogant of them to assume that nobody else would have come up with those things.

It's also incredibly arrogant of them to associate themselves with the people responsible for those discoveries/inventions/etc. I'd like to look them in the eye and ask, "What the hell did you have to do with those discoveries?" Does the fact that you're Muslim and somebody who, a thousand years ago, came up with a mathematical theory and happened to come from a primarily Muslim region/culture give you some claim to that theory?

I would say that the ignorance displayed here is astounding, but it's not. It's typical.
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Reply #13 - September 25, 2014, 06:33 AM

They get all collectivist when it comes to assigning credit to "Muslims" even if those claims are false or exaggerated. But when it comes to taking responsibility for the actions of other Muslims, it's every Muslim for him/herself. How convenient.

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Reply #14 - October 01, 2014, 02:45 PM

Allat, Muslims react collectively when they are offended, the Danish cartoon affair is a good case. Muslims went on rampage collectively to protest against Salman Rushdie for writing the Satanic Versus. They also assign blame collectively, for example, blaming all Jews for the actions of Israeli government - no Jew, not even non-Israeli Jew is allowed to visit any Muslim country, not even semi-democratic Malaysia and Indonesia. The discrimination against Jews is mainstream because it is sanctioned legally in every Muslim country.

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Reply #15 - October 01, 2014, 03:00 PM

Regarding the Danish Muhammad cartoons:
Many Muslims did not. The politicised did. With violence in some places. Yes, it was ugly. But it was not "Muslims". It was *THOSE* Muslims. It was not over a billion Muslims taking to the streets.

Please stop generalising. During the latest culling of Gaza I sew several Muslim Arabs online telling in particular South Asian male Muslims to stop the blanket hate of Jews.

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Reply #16 - October 01, 2014, 03:15 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know the Dutch muslims you're talking about had to travel the middle east sprouting bullshit to create a storm. They had to leave Denmark to do this because very few there gave a shit.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #17 - October 01, 2014, 03:21 PM

Well Ahmed Akkari is a boy from northern Jutland, not the Netherlands, but yes. They had to work hard to stir up protests.

Danish Muslims in general have never forgiven Ahmed Akkari and the rest for that. Of course that is another reason to call Akkari names now that he has denounced Islamism and publicly eats bacon. He has been forced to go back to Greenland to land a job because he can't get benefits here in Denmark as he is "not available for the job market" because he has to have a couple of security service agents following him around

The Egyptian ambassador to Denmark at the time Mona Omar Attia was instrumental in setting up their tour to the Middle East and inciting the masses.

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Reply #18 - October 01, 2014, 03:32 PM

With all due respect, I have to disagree. It is not possible for every Muslim to go on rampage. But the facts do not change that non-Muslims are collectively held resposnsible and they act collectively. The discrimination against Jews is part of the constitution in every Muslim country and legislated in law - this is mainstream, you cannot get any more mainstream than having laws which discriminate against a whole community. There are laws which do not allow Jews to buy property in every Muslim country. As a matter of fact the intolerance against non-Muslims is in the fabric of Muslim communities all over the world - this is absolutely mainstream. I know, I and my family has the experience of living in a place where Muslims are 98% of the population. They do not even tolerate a tiny minority of non-Muslims. We all have to be truthful if we want Muslims to change their thinking.

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Reply #19 - October 01, 2014, 03:33 PM

When is a University not a University? Athens, Alexandria, China, Constantinople, Rome, Persia....

Oops - all pre Islam!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

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Reply #20 - October 01, 2014, 03:37 PM

Quote from: Ram on October 01, 2014, 03:32 PM
With all due respect, I have to disagree. It is not possible for every Muslim to go on rampage. But the facts do not change that non-Muslims are collectively held resposnsible and they act collectively. The discrimination against Jews is part of the constitution in every Muslim country and legislated in law - this is mainstream, you cannot get any more mainstream than having laws which discriminate against a whole community. There are laws which do not allow Jews to buy property in every Muslim country. As a matter of fact the intolerance against non-Muslims is in the fabric of Muslim communities all over the world - this is absolutely mainstream. I know, I and my family has the experience of living in a place where Muslims are 98% of the population. They do not even tolerate a tiny minority of non-Muslims. We all have to be truthful if we want Muslims to change their thinking.

None of that relates to your point about Danish muslims and the cartoons.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #21 - October 01, 2014, 04:45 PM

Quote from: zeca on September 24, 2014, 02:06 PM
Hmm...
- Ian David Morris debunks that last claim here:
A mosque, a muslimah and a little white lie

Buddhist University of Nalanda (now in the state of Bihar) existed before the 6th Century - before Islam. The Chinese pilgrim Xuanzang, also known as Hiuen Tsang travelled to Nalanda in the 7th Century and has written extensively. The university had several thousand students, including many from East Asian countries. It had library containing thousands of Buddhist manuscripts. Bakhtiyar Khilji a Muslim war monger destroyed the univeristy and burned the library in the end of the 12th and the beginning of 13th Century. He lined up all the monks, who were teachers as well, and beheaded every one of them. Please correct me if I am wrong about the facts.

No need to take my word, the facts are there online. As a matter of fact many books have been written about the Nalanda by Europeans.

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Reply #22 - October 01, 2014, 05:03 PM

Quote from: Ram on October 01, 2014, 02:45 PM
Allat, Muslims react collectively when they are offended, the Danish cartoon affair is a good case. Muslims went on rampage collectively to protest against Salman Rushdie for writing the Satanic Versus. They also assign blame collectively, for example, blaming all Jews for the actions of Israeli government - no Jew, not even non-Israeli Jew is allowed to visit any Muslim country, not even semi-democratic Malaysia and Indonesia. The discrimination against Jews is mainstream because it is sanctioned legally in every Muslim country.

STOP GENERALISING

not all Muslims think that way or react that way.

Any more than all Hindus react in a mob like way when some are offended by something.

Told you this about 1000 times and you still come out with it.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Reply #23 - October 01, 2014, 05:05 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on October 01, 2014, 03:21 PM
Well Ahmed Akkari is a boy from northern Jutland, not the Netherlands, but yes. They had to work hard to stir up protests.

Danish Muslims in general have never forgiven Ahmed Akkari and the rest for that. Of course that is another reason to call Akkari names now that he has denounced Islamism and publicly eats bacon. He has been forced to go back to Greenland to land a job because he can't get benefits here in Denmark as he is "not available for the job market" because he has to have a couple of security service agents following him around

The Egyptian ambassador to Denmark at the time Mona Omar Attia was instrumental in setting up their tour to the Middle East and inciting the masses.

Publicly eats bacon?Why?
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Reply #24 - October 01, 2014, 05:32 PM

Becaues he likes to upset people I guess. Or show that he is one of "us" ("Danes"). Or both. He had the Islamists' social group. Now he was seeking the Danish secular social group. Or something.

Well it was when there was a TV "roadshow" with him and Naser Khader and they ordered something to eat and he ordered a chicken and bacon sandwich. So it was not more public than that. But still a small provocation and/or effort to fit in. Or he wanted a chicken and bacon sandwich and if someone else felt hurt about it it was their problem. He has spoken a lot about the hypocrisy among "religious" Muslims and in particular Islamists.

Also I begin to think that people who go public have issues.

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Reply #25 - October 01, 2014, 05:36 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on September 24, 2014, 01:42 PM
So this is doing the rounds on Twitter - Muslims apologising for all the gifts Muslims have bestowed upon this world:

(Clicky for piccy!)

From this Huffington Post article.

Stumbled into by this post on Mehdi Hasan's Facebook page.

Muslim feeling of supremacy meets Muslim feeling of victimisation?

Oh, fuck off and get your head out of your own arses you self-aggrandizing insecure trolls!

No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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Reply #26 - October 01, 2014, 06:07 PM

Quote from: Ram on October 01, 2014, 04:45 PM
Buddhist University of Nalanda (now in the state of Bihar) existed before the 6th Century - before Islam. The Chinese pilgrim Xuanzang, also known as Hiuen Tsang travelled to Nalanda in the 7th Century and has written extensively. The university had several thousand students, including many from East Asian countries. It had library containing thousands of Buddhist manuscripts. Bakhtiyar Khilji a Muslim war monger destroyed the univeristy and burned the library in the end of the 12th and the beginning of 13th Century. He lined up all the monks, who were teachers as well, and beheaded every one of them. Please correct me if I am wrong about the facts.

No need to take my word, the facts are there online. As a matter of fact many books have been written about the Nalanda by Europeans.

This is interesting. I posted up some links on possible Buddhist influences on Islam on the Islamic Golden Age thread: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27246.msg784591#msg784591

It's not something I really know anything about beyond this though.

Edit: wiki on Nalanda: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda

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Reply #27 - October 01, 2014, 06:33 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on October 01, 2014, 05:32 PM
Becaues he likes to upset people I guess. Or show that he is one of "us" ("Danes"). Or both. He had the Islamists' social group. Now he was seeking the Danish secular social group. Or something.

Well it was when there was a TV "roadshow" with him and Naser Khader and they ordered something to eat and he ordered a chicken and bacon sandwich. So it was not more public than that. But still a small provocation and/or effort to fit in. Or he wanted a chicken and bacon sandwich and if someone else felt hurt about it it was their problem. He has spoken a lot about the hypocrisy among "religious" Muslims and in particular Islamists.

Also I begin to think that people who go public have issues.

I thought that he still identified as a muslim.Its very unusual for a muslim to go from islamist to swine eater.Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to guess that he's no muzzie.
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Reply #28 - October 01, 2014, 06:49 PM

Quote from: Skywalker on October 01, 2014, 06:33 PM
I thought that he still identified as a muslim.Its very unusual for a muslim to go from islamist to swine eater.Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to guess that he's no muzzie.

Now enough with the takfiring! If he identifies as a Muslim he is Muslim. That is by the way the requirement set by British Muslims for Secular Democracy.

Also the process took several years and he wasn't an Islamist anyway until in his late teens. Until then he was very "Danish" and not religious just like his Palestinian parents.

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Reply #29 - October 01, 2014, 07:10 PM

I would have more difficulty declaring somone nonmuslim,who claimed to be muslim, when I was a muslim than I do now.
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