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Theme Changer

 Topic: Living forever?

 (Read 13470 times)
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  • Living forever?
     Reply #60 - September 25, 2014, 01:18 PM

    It would have to be significant, though. Evolution is not just a matter of offspring differing from their parents. It is a matter of a population being subjected to some sort of pressure that either favors a certain trait or stamps out another. As it stands right now, there are not really any factors that inhibit human beings from living long enough to be able to reproduce that would affect change in the population. Even if certain offspring inherit certain traits, they don’t exist in an isolated gene pool and those traits don’t give them a reproductive advantage over the rest of the population. I think we’ll continue to see the appearance of mutations, but I don’t think there are any pressures right now that would favor mutations or stamp them out.  At least, I can’t think of any.


    I think its a matter of opinion whether or not there exist selection pressures for human populations. People are dying and shit, all over the world, due to any number of diseases. The sickle cell allele is prevalent in a region of Africa where malaria is common, which I don't think is a coincidence.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Living forever?
     Reply #61 - September 25, 2014, 02:35 PM

    Sickle cell is a perfect example of an evolved trait that provides an advantage. Even though it can ultimately kill you, a baby with sickle cell in an environment where malaria is common is more likely to survive at least to the age where they can reproduce. This is not, as I understand it, a relatively recent or modern adaptation (ie, occurring in the age of modern medicine and disease prevention). My point is that today, we don't really see those same pressures at work.

    What pressures are there today that could affect change in a population?
  • Living forever?
     Reply #62 - September 25, 2014, 02:42 PM

    ^

    My astrobiology prof (elective course) last year said that according to various studies, average human IQ is falling because there is no longer a selective pressure for intelligence like there was in the past.



    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Living forever?
     Reply #63 - September 25, 2014, 03:12 PM

    Even just having one allele makes you resistant to malaria. So if there's malaria around, you're going to lose a lot of the normal guys, and, as always, you're going to lose people with sickle cell at different rates anyway, but the carriers of sickle cell will be incredibly successful. Some of their kids might be a different story.

    I'm a little confused by this whole discussion. Could affect, or does? Certainly if there was like a doomsday pandemic sweeping around, you might get a good look at people clearly needing to sink or swim, but otherwise, what are we really talking about here? The extent to which we see human evolution today is most noticeable in the extremes, and, like it always is in genetics, sickle cell is a perfect example. In an area where malaria thrives and sickle cell exists, sickle cell is probably going to increase as malaria does.

    This is evolution, this is evolutionary pressure, as slow and as subtle as it pretty much always has been. The much more interesting question now, and I guess this is what some people on here were going for, is how our advances in medicine will change--not stop--evolution. We can easily hypothesize what will happen if we went into this population and increased the treatment and preventative measures against malaria, and gave genetic counseling.

    Sometimes, evolution is a lot about what isn't there, who isn't there, diseases/disorders that are common in certain populations but absent in another. Even when we buffer the extremes where you do see pressure on certain populations, which we have been, evolution will still be working slowly, and, again, most visible by imagining who isn't among us, some people we never even knew tried to come into existence and just got those unlucky combinations that were obligate lethals. And that does change what is generally out there to be inherited in the world and in which proportions they were available.

    Genetics is way too complex for me to believe that one could look at a very brief window in human history, and right now, it is brief, and think we've grown beyond our need to really evolve in that classical way. It's not like before, but it's not gone away, either. If nothing else, we will likely always have to contend with new mutations, new environmental factors very likely to increase said mutations, and, very likely, the general increase of instances of genetic disorders that were once too debilitating for the sufferer to pass on very often, and all the repercussions of all the combinations we try cramming together to make a person. Certain combinations get a shot. If you can withstand your particular environment, you can thrive. Others get scrapped well before reproductive age, sometimes right off the bat.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #64 - September 25, 2014, 04:57 PM

    We was talking mainly about the developed world. We're living in an age where there is already the technology to design babies, where I don't even need a partner to breed, and where there is no pressure to be fit for anything or suit a certain niche in order to meet a mate and successfully breed.

    I don't think it's a case of if, but when, every baby born is designed to order. This would mean natural human evolution is essentially frozen. There would be no great environmental pressures shaping the form of future humans into something unimaginable right now. We will no longer be evolving according to the trajectory we would be on if not for technological intervention. We will all be created as specimens within the parameters of current humans. We are not likely to add any dramatic changes in physiology or deviate from those parameters. Who is gonna venture far outside of the basic 21st human form when creating a new human?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #65 - September 25, 2014, 04:59 PM

    Genetics is way too complex for me to believe that one could look at a very brief window in human history, and right now, it is brief, and think we've grown beyond our need to really evolve in that classical way. It's not like before, but it's not gone away, either. If nothing else, we will likely always have to contend with new mutations, new environmental factors very likely to increase said mutations, and, very likely, the general increase of instances of genetic disorders that were once too debilitating for the sufferer to pass on very often, and all the repercussions of all the combinations we try cramming together to make a person. Certain combinations get a shot. If you can withstand your particular environment, you can thrive. Others get scrapped well before reproductive age, sometimes right off the bat.


    +1, if I were as eloquent.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Living forever?
     Reply #66 - September 25, 2014, 05:05 PM

    Who is gonna venture far outside of the basic 21st human form when creating a new human?


    Someone who is trying to gain a competitive advantage. Not as crazy as you might think.

    This period of relative resource abundance, lack of war, and control of destiny in the western world has lasted since when, end of WWII? That's a few generations at best, and not really worth extrapolating as to the ability to "cease" evolution. I'd more likely put it in the category of abundance that is often seen among species, as opposed to a new paradigm.

    Designing genomes changes the nature of the game sure, but the rules are still the same. Replicate or perish.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Living forever?
     Reply #67 - September 25, 2014, 05:08 PM

    I definitely don't want to live forever.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #68 - September 25, 2014, 05:12 PM

    I'm not necessarily talking about right now. More near-future. There's no reason we'll stop exploring genetics and eventually master it, to the degree that we eliminate deformities and the genetic factors of cancer etc. There are only philosophical and ethical pressures holding that kind of progress back.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #69 - September 25, 2014, 05:17 PM

    We're not there yet, by a long shot. Evolution is still very much a reality for us in the now.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Living forever?
     Reply #70 - September 25, 2014, 05:24 PM

    Even if we were talking 10,000 years into the future, there would only be negligible natural change in that timespan. A baby born today is more or less exactly the same as a baby born 200,000 years ago.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #71 - September 25, 2014, 05:33 PM

    A baby born today is more or less exactly the same as a baby born 200,000 years ago.


    Except for their height has changed significantly?  Huh?

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Living forever?
     Reply #72 - September 25, 2014, 05:40 PM

    It's not change outside of the parameters that existed 200,000 years ago. There were tall people in the past. And height has a lot to do with nutrition too.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #73 - September 25, 2014, 05:43 PM

    Right, and evolution does take a long time to work, in most circumstances. But its the rules of the game. That's why it's not going away.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Living forever?
     Reply #74 - September 25, 2014, 06:11 PM

    Humans will continually be evolving, most likely indefinitely.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #75 - September 25, 2014, 06:56 PM

    Haven't people got bigger boned and taller though ?  I was looking at a reconstruction of alexandra the greats head in a museum the other day and his skull was the size of an 11 year olds.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #76 - September 25, 2014, 07:06 PM

    Yup. I'm looking forward to the second coming.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQHm7oItkdA

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Living forever?
     Reply #77 - September 25, 2014, 10:15 PM

    Oh, if that was the discussion, I wouldn't personally place my bets on us looking awfully different in the future. I doubt we're going to be growing wings and claws and scales or anything.

    But honestly, if the future is a world where designer babies is the norm, who even knows, and I'd like to change my answer. No, I don't want to live forever, the future sounds scary and weird. What happened to making your kids the disgusting way like God intended.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #78 - September 26, 2014, 01:52 AM

    With the advent of cheaper and more accessible plastic surgery. In the future people will make themselves taller and more beautiful as to the norm of the day.

    Everyone will be able to be Joan rivers. The brits will be laughed at as the NHS wont give them the full works (ie with teeth today) so we'll still have wonky teeth, noses and small boobs.

    Late Eid Mubarak, Where's my eidee present ?
  • Living forever?
     Reply #79 - April 23, 2015, 07:53 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pm-5s__aZE0

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Living forever?
     Reply #80 - April 25, 2015, 04:18 AM

    Only bad thing is people will still have babies. And if we didn't die we will over populated much quicker.
  • Living forever?
     Reply #81 - April 25, 2015, 06:03 AM

    I can think of way more downsides. I would perpetuate class division in unprecedented ways because this sort of technology would not be available to the general public at first. Also, we have no idea if a brain can still function normally after more than a few years over one hundred. We would probably absolutely demolish the ecosystem trying to get more and more resources.

    The more I think about it, the more nightmarish it seems. Humans always find a way to fuck things up, and there's no way calm, rational minds will prevail when the primal desire to escape death at whatever cost is at the forefront.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Living forever?
     Reply #82 - April 25, 2015, 04:00 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_AHY

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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