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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Which reason do you think is the most important to most believers?
  • Indoctrination into Religion - 10 (62.5%)
  • Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry - 1 (6.3%)
  • Peer & Family Pressure - 1 (6.3%)
  • Fear of Death - 3 (18.8%)
  • Wishful Thinking - 0 (0%)
  • Fear of Freedom & Responsibility - 1 (6.3%)
  • Lack of Basic Skills in Logic & Reasoning - 0 (0%)
  • Total Voters: 16

 Topic: Why do people believe?

 (Read 4866 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Why do people believe?
     OP - September 21, 2014, 10:44 PM

    I found this list at the site below and although it's from an Atheist perspective - i.e. doesn't list reasons like; "I am convinced by the cosmological argument that there's a God" etc... I think it does hit at some of the underlying reasons.

    What do you think - and why? Smiley

    1. Indoctrination into Religion
    Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live? If people were genuinely convinced by the arguments which apologists offered, shouldn't the distribution of religions around the globe be a bit more even? The high and consistent degree of religious concentrations suggests that people believe their religion because that's the one they were indoctrinated into and which is consistently reinforced around them. People acquire a religion before critical thinking skills and that religion is promoted without most people noticing. That's really not a very good reason to believe that a religion is true, is it?

    2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry
    If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your god are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion. Who wants to be immoral or simply regarded by the rest of society as immoral? This is very much what atheists face, especially in America, and it's hard not to see the constant indoctrination into anti-atheist bigotry as a reason why people stick to their religions. Children learn in public schools that America is a nation for people who believe in God and this message is reinforced throughout their lives by preachers, politicians, and community leaders of all sorts.

    3. Peer & Family Pressure
    Religion can be enormously important to families and communities, creating a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to religious expectations. People who step outside those expectations are not simply choosing a different way of life, but can in fact be perceived as rejecting one of the most important bonds which keep a family or community together. Even if this is never communicated in so many words, people do learn that certain ideas, ideologies, and practices should be treated as vital to communal bonds and should therefore not be questioned. The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.

    4. Fear of Death
    Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a god through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist. This arguably reveals something very important about the believers themselves: they, too, must fear death as the cessation of existence and believe not because there are any good reasons to think there is an afterlife, but rather out of wishful thinking. People don't want to think that physical death is the end of all experiences, emotions, and thoughts so they insist on believing that somehow their "mind" will continue to exist without any physical brain in an eternity of sustained bliss — or even will be reincarnated in a new form.

    5. Wishful Thinking
    The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a god which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.

    6. Fear of Freedom & Responsibility
    One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because God will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because God will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because God has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because God has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.


    7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic & Reasoning
    Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should. Even so, the quality of arguments typically offered by believers as justification for their religious and theistic beliefs are remarkable for just how atrocious they are. If only one basic logical fallacy is committed, it can be considered an achievement. Given how important believers claim the existence of their god and truth of their religion are, you'd think that they would invest a lot of effort into constructing the best possible arguments and finding the best possible evidence. Instead, they invest a lot of effort into constructing circular rationalizations and finding anything that sounds even remotely plausible.

    http://atheism.about.com/od/theismtheists/tp/WhyTheistsBelieveInGod.htm
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #1 - September 21, 2014, 11:12 PM

    Honestly, I would choose all of them, but if I had to choose one(or two/three/four), I'd say lack of basic skills in logic & reasoning is the reason people choose to stay in religion, with escapism and indoctrination into religion/ABB  as  close seconds. Obviously, you need logic to....logic yourself out of a fallacious belief, but if you're being told since the beginning of your life that "LOL LOOK AT THOSE RETARDS WORSHIPPING THE WRONG GOD xDDDD"; if you're not even told that [your] god is real, but simply told that you need to pray to [your] god all the fucking time, then your view of EVERYTHING is distorted by how the religious figures of your religion view those things, and only when you climb to the top and are able to look at how things truly are do you start considering that your parents might just be wrong.

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #2 - September 22, 2014, 10:10 AM

    I found the explanation in noise a history possible.

    Imagine you are an ancient hominid and go into a cave and make a noise and hear an echo.

    What is that?

    You haven't any science.  You know other members of your tribes make noises and communicate.  You know people die.  You have dreams.

    It is logical it to assume it is invisible people talking to you.  You develop the story.

    The other important point is that story of a chimp who learned to bang something and then became the leader.  Nothing like a good bit of theatre!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #3 - September 22, 2014, 10:25 AM

    I've always thought it's primarily fear and narcissism.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #4 - September 22, 2014, 10:30 AM

    Why narcissism?
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #5 - September 22, 2014, 10:31 AM

    Because they have this assumption that they're important enough to save.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #6 - September 22, 2014, 10:39 AM

    hmm…i'm more inclined to say its anthropocentrism than narcissism. islam does drum in how insignificant we are, we're just tiny specs and and how god doesn't need us.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #7 - September 22, 2014, 10:42 AM

    Yet, he spends his time obsessing about what we eat, who we fuck, how we clean our asses, and whether or not we like him enough.  Roll Eyes Stalker.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #8 - September 22, 2014, 10:44 AM

    hmm…i'm more inclined to say its anthropocentrism than narcissism. islam does drum in how insignificant we are, we're just tiny specs and and how god doesn't need us.

    Ok, so basically you're saying that a species of ape thinking it's the centre of the universe is not evidence of narcissism. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #9 - September 22, 2014, 10:54 AM

    Anyway, what really makes me think "narcissism" is that even when you get through indoctrination, peer pressure, fear, lack of reasoning, etc there still seems to be a core principle left even in those people who do not appear to be controlled by the other factors: "this life is not enough, there must be more, because if there isn't more I won't be happy/satisfied/etc, and how I feel about shit is fucking important, therefore there must be more".

    I call that narcissism. YMMV.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #10 - September 22, 2014, 12:00 PM

    but humans sort of are the centre of the earth, aren't we? i still don't think it's narcissism but it's just a matter of perspective so i get how you'd see it that way. i see it as more of a need to find meaning, understanding and order given how there's still a lot that we don't know about the universe.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #11 - September 22, 2014, 12:05 PM

    I've never really felt the centre of the universe. I'm the centre of my own reality but realising that other people and things are real just like I am has a way of driving home the point that it's not all about me. I'm also connected. I don't feel like the centre of the universe or disconnected from nature, I recognise that I'm a part of it.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #12 - September 22, 2014, 12:32 PM

    I'm surprised not more people said family. You're religion is a membership pass to the most important group on earth. Your family and loved ones.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #13 - September 22, 2014, 12:35 PM

    Leaving it loses you that membership.

    I'm coming at this from a Muslim perspective of course Wink
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #14 - September 22, 2014, 12:56 PM

    None of the above.

    Certainly over the past 40-50 years or so islam (quite sagaciously) has been perceived as an effective vehicle to augment leadership around monopolism, oligarchism and trans-national corporatism whilst denouncing societal excesses as a whole. For this reason its economics are an incoherent melange of fixed loan payments and positively libertarian free market economics. As has been noted by Marxian economists, the prohibition on interest simply cannot apply under capitalism, as interest is profit, not surplus paid to a lender under feudal conditions to increase his/her riches. Interest becomes a safety valve for businesses from going under, rather than the traditional conception of usury. When taking this into account one is easily able to pinpoint the transformation of islam from decentralised folk and agrarian praxis into regimented hierarchy. Noone said central planning doesn't work, it just works differently in a free market.

    For more information, see, for instance
    http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2005/no-1209-may-2005/cooking-books-1-islamic-bankers
    EDIT: Islam also permits debt bondage.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #15 - September 22, 2014, 06:09 PM

    I'm surprised not more people said family. You're religion is a membership pass to the most important group on earth. Your family and loved ones.


    I understand that it's more than likely that we're talking about different dimensions of the family but my family was one of the top 100 reasons I left Islam.

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #16 - September 22, 2014, 08:52 PM

    I think it is a mixture of all, may be in different proportions in different communities. Growing up in urban Pakistan, I saw it was all around me and all the time. Azaan, hamad, naat, waaz, and all on loudspeakers all the time. Maulvies, parents, teachers, neighbours, relatives, everyone play their part in making a child mould into their frame. Peer pressure, I found that was quite strong and so many times I had to go to the mosque because it was a Friday and it was Jummah time. I felt very suffocated in Quran Khatam (communal reciting Quran) gatherings and in other serious communal religious occasions. People believe in all of it with such conviction and they are so sure about its authenticity and its perfection, it would always amaze me. I left faith sometimes between the ages of 8 and 11. I was beaten by the maulvi who would teach me reading Quran. It was for my questioning him about something that puzzled me that if Allah has himself sealed someone's understanding, vision and hearing (to the so called Truth), why should then he/she be subjected to everlasting punishment...! I remember that I was very upset that day and told my dad who then took me off the Mosque school and arranged for me to complete Quran reading at home. We were encouraged to read urdu or english translation as my dad believed that reciting it in arabic without understanding it was foolish. The mire I understood it the more I started to question it. My dad would try to explain but would not get upset or angry. He would always say that true faith always comes from within and he did not like imposing it. 'Go and find your own meaning, your own truth'. I think he was sure I would find truth in it one day.

    I like this quote by Descartes:

    "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things"
    Descartes

    I have been trying my hardest to exclude all or most of these factors from the upbringing of my children and let them find the truth themselves. I believe in a beautiful advice by some wise person, "teach children how to think and not what to think". A neutral upbringing, where kids had Quran, Bible and God Delusion, etc all available to them at home, has automatically led them to follow logic and science than anything else.

    Life is still not easy. I am paying a big price for my 'lack of faith' but there is a deep pleasure in this pain.
     Smiley

    Every true faith is infallible. It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search - Neitchze
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #17 - September 23, 2014, 07:14 AM

    Nice post, I quite enjoyed reading it. Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #18 - September 23, 2014, 09:01 AM

    Concerning me, at first I was in the denial refusing to consider the slightest doubt, the slightest critical thought that was like a schizophrenic state.

    By force of circumstance I could not anymore accepted this state which consisted in denying my part of humanity. I had the impression to be a traitor because I dared to question dogma and the sacredness of a book who does not withstand close scrutiny historical, moral and scientific.
     
    During my searches I rather fast realized incoherence, division between the sects of the Islam, the diversion of the scholars on the most important subjects (why does God need to be worshiped?, pre-destiny paradox...) as the most commonplaces.

    Then one day I wondered if Islam is the truth why I received signs which would lead me to a religion while others receive signs which lead them towards the Christianity, the Buddhism, the Hinduism?

    It is my environment, my education, social links of cohesion that determines largely my faiths.

    In brief, I was "indoctrinate" if i may say.

    More I moved forward in my reflections more and I realized that I saw the world which surrounds us only through the window of the Islam.

    To sum up brainwashing, "blackmail in the faith" by the fear which annuls any rational reflection, it's nothing else than a swindle.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #19 - September 23, 2014, 11:22 AM

    For actual belief, its got to be indoctrination. All of the other one's simply support the edifice but there's no way it stays up as strongly without the molding of impressionable young minds to that singular reality.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #20 - September 23, 2014, 12:02 PM

    For me, religion felt good, simple as that. A lot of the time, it felt downright awesome. I thought that because it felt good, it was evidence that it was the truth. The security of existence beyond death and the feeling of being protected... religion made me feel quite powerful. I came up with all kinds of complicated explanations to defend my beliefs, but eventually enough doubt set in and I had to admit I just didn't believe it anymore.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #21 - September 23, 2014, 12:19 PM

    For me, religion felt good, simple as that. A lot of the time, it felt downright awesome. I thought that because it felt good, it was evidence that it was the truth.  And The security of existence beyond death and the feeling of being protected... religion made me feel quite powerful. I came up with all kinds of complicated explanations to defend my beliefs, but eventually enough doubt set in and I had to admit I just didn't believe it anymore.

    Hmm.. Let me copy Villiage_Idiot to give him company as beer drinking idiot

    For me, religion/s felt bad as simple as that.  A lot of the time, it felt downright awesome stupid. I thought that because it felt good, it was evidence that it was the truth that the religions, religious rituals are stupid.   The security of existence beyond death and the feeling of being protected is wonderful  and  I believe I am secured & protected  beyond this existence beyond the death of this existence.

    Religion/s made me feel quite powerless, guilty for nothing and  utter stupid  for following some sayings of some cave dwellers  some 1000s of years ago. I came up with a very simple  explanations to defend my belief in not believing stupid religions of some cave dwellers.. But.,  but eventually enough doubt set in  and I had to admit  that I was not right.,  And I Have to admit that  I do follow what all these cave dwellers said/wrote and that is  so simple... Now I can trash all religious books/sayings/rituals and their prophets and their gods with a very simple rule and that is



    Surprisingly, in one way or other way,  you can find the same rule in every religious sayings and also from the statements of non-religious folks of the past.  I am still looking for the original source of that statement...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #22 - September 23, 2014, 02:30 PM

    Quote
    We were encouraged to read urdu or english translation as my dad believed that reciting it in arabic without understanding it was foolish.


    He is going to burn in hell for thinking that! 

    And anyone thinking in these terms is definitely on the slippery slope to damnation!  I get the impression that type of view is actually quite common!

    AN Wilson wrote a book "God's Funeral" in which he describes a mid 19th century English woman as an ordinary agnostic.  "Those dreadful hammers" had been working away for a couple of decades and the reality was religion was becoming irrelevant.

    Maybe similar things are happening everywhere, but the cliffs are crumbling more slowly in some places than others?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #23 - September 25, 2014, 07:44 PM

    I think the reason some people believe, particularly those like myself who were indoctrinated with religion, are taught that it is complete and utter fact. Just as there is no is no doubt that 1+1=2, there is an equal lack of doubt to the fact that ''There is no god but God and Muhammad is his messenger''.
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #24 - September 26, 2014, 09:01 AM

    Quote from: Yeezevee
    Hmm.. Let me copy Villiage_Idiot to give him company as beer drinking idiot

    For me, religion/s felt bad as simple as that.  A lot of the time, it felt downright awesome stupid. I thought that because it felt good, it was evidence that it was the truth that the religions, religious rituals are stupid.   The security of existence beyond death and the feeling of being protected is wonderful  and  I believe I am secured & protected  beyond this existence beyond the death of this existence.

    Religion/s made me feel quite powerless, guilty for nothing and  utter stupid  for following some sayings of some cave dwellers  some 1000s of years ago. I came up with a very simple  explanations to defend my belief in not believing stupid religions of some cave dwellers.. But.,  but eventually enough doubt set in  and I had to admit  that I was not right.,  And I Have to admit that  I do follow what all these cave dwellers said/wrote and that is  so simple... Now I can trash all religious books/sayings/rituals and their prophets and their gods with a very simple rule and that is


    LOL. I just saw this. You crack me up, Yeezevee. Only thing is I'm a girl, not a guy, and I don't drink alcohol. I'll be happy to pull up a seat and have a nice protein shake with you though. Smiley

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #25 - September 26, 2014, 09:18 AM

    LOL. I just saw this. You crack me up, Yeezevee. Only thing is I'm a girl, not a guy, and I don't drink alcohol. I'll be happy to pull up a seat and have a nice protein shake with you though. Smiley

    Oops I am so...so sorry ., Now I don't like your nick . Then why Village__Idiot?  Somewhere in one of the responses thinking you are guy, I asked you  to change your nick to Vagabond

     NOOOOOOOO No  you are NOT, you are not an Idiot., You may be from village but you are not Idiot., You are so thoughtful, intelligent, articulate but appears to be bit pessimistic. one time or other time It happens to every one in life., We got to get up and walk again.    So I will stop calling you with that nick .. Because in a hurry to join the forum you made   a mistake.  you spelled that word Village as  Villiage  which is wrong..  So I am going to call you as "Village flower"  or   "Flower from  village pond"

    So pick you nick again V_I...

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why do people believe?
     Reply #26 - September 27, 2014, 01:49 AM

    Thank you, Yeezevee. Everytime I come across someone as kind as you, I have hope for humanity. I am just some random stranger on the net, yet you still be kind to me.

    Kindness is one of those rare things. We can easily all live the Darwinian tooth-and-nail way (it is our nature after all), but yet some people still find a reason to show kindness to others, even going as far as to show kindness to the real weirdos like me.  Thank you. I mean that more than you might realize.

    I really don't mind being the idiot of my village though. It's not an insult to me. Yes, I am maladjusted. But when society is behaving like flamin' lunatics, being "well-adjusted" only means you are about to fit in with the lunatics. Not exactly a compliment.

    Take good care Smiley

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
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