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Theme Changer

 Topic: faith is leaving

 (Read 4009 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • faith is leaving
     OP - September 21, 2014, 10:49 AM

    I am a muslim living in an Arab Country, i am very open religiously and accept every criticism concerning Islam and respect the other faiths (atheism, agnosticism, all religion...).

    I define myself more as a humanist of Muslim culture.

    It became clear that the Koran is a book filled with contradiction or we find everything and the opposite, those who looks for spirituality find their happiness, those who are in search of the power and mental control find justifications for the most atrocious inhumanity.

    I am a really very open-minded person who is on the point to lose faith. I would like to speak about a subject which poisons me the life, how to live if the life does not make any sense at all, if we are  only the fruit of the chaos.

    I was anxious to express you all my sympathy for the work of reflection which you bring, given that i am not English-speaking (it's not my mother tongue) and do not master your language it's difficult for me to bring a quality contribution.

    in fact, i almost don't speak english at all. It's a pity because you are one of rare forum which does not make ideological recovery, on other sites, it is from the false criticism who hides a hardly veiled racism.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #1 - September 21, 2014, 11:07 AM

    Welcome to the forum ergo Smiley

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #2 - September 21, 2014, 11:19 AM

    Hey, I like your introduction and your username.

    Just judging by this introduction, I can see already that you will have a lot to contribute to the forum. I hope that given time you will gain a little more confidence in your English, and that you dive into discussions when ready. I for one will look out for your posts. If there are any minor mistakes in your grammar, that is understandable, and I'm 100% certain that you have the intelligence to iron those out, given a little bit of time amongst us.

    Your statement about life and how to continue living and thriving once you realise that we could just be products of chaos or chance, is an interesting one. It is one that has plagued many of us on here, at some points in our journeys. It is worthy of a thread on it's own, and I'm pretty sure that there have been some already... I'll refrain from trying to formulate my opinion on this on here, but I will look around to see if I can find a response that one of our regulars on here, Ishina, gave once to someone who asked something similar.

    Anyways welcome, and I hope you stick around Smiley

    Hi
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #3 - September 21, 2014, 11:20 AM

    A warm welcome to you, Ergo.  Please accept this gift of a  parrot

    Your English is quite good enough for people to understand, so please do not worry about it.

    I look forward to reading more about your personal situation and beliefs.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #4 - September 21, 2014, 11:40 AM

    (Hi everyone. I hope I don't offend anyone by my post. Please, acceot my apology in advance)
    Hi Ergo,
    Welcome to the forum
    Welcome to the truth, as I and so many others see it.
    The truth that all religions are false and that there is no inherent meaning or purpose in life.
    As Satre said it is Existence before Essence and not the other way around.
     Realisation of this is actually very comforting and freeing. You don't have to live your life according to some fixed code that may just reflect sixth-seventh century bedouin culture, or to please a god, or in the greed of a non existent heaven or in the fear of an eternity in hell, etc.
    I see it as I have been given a blank canvass to paint my life on it with unlimited (but constrained by the time limits of life) gos, to erase and rewrite or redraw. One makes choices and take actions according to the free will and takes the responsibility of the consequences. One lives a life based on common sense and logic and is concerned about maximising own and others' happiness.
    I feel it liberates you from all the hocus pocus and mumble jumble as well as the prejudice, hatred, intolerance and worse that most faith system particulary Islam in present day comes packed with.
    Good luck and all the best
     bunny Smiley
    PS: English is my second or third language as well. Your expression in English is much better than mine. It is the thought that counts. Simple and true.

    Every true faith is infallible. It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search - Neitchze
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #5 - September 21, 2014, 12:59 PM

    I would like to speak about a subject which poisons me the life, how to live if the life does not make any sense at all, if we are  only the fruit of the chaos.


    Welcome, Ergo.

    You ask a very important question:

    "how to live if the life does not make any sense at all, if we are  only the fruit of the chaos."

    It is something many of us here are struggling with. Especially those of us for whom Islam provided the meaning, structure and direction to our lives, for many years.

    When one loses that - especially after so many years, it is extremely difficult to rebuild your whole world-view and find your way again.

    I am not going to give you any glib answers.

    The truth is that - if my own experience is anything to go by - it will be a long and difficult struggle to find meaning, purpose and sense in this crazy and often cruel world. So hold on for a bumpy ride.

    But I will say this, that if there is anything worth anything, it is to keep seeking truth as best you can, be honest with yourself and others in that path, love your fellow man and forgive his faults - unlike God (if there is one) man was created very flawed.

    Smiley
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #6 - September 21, 2014, 01:05 PM

    Hey and welcome to the forum, Ergo Smiley

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #7 - September 21, 2014, 01:44 PM

    I am a muslim living in an Arab Country, i am very open religiously and accept every criticism concerning Islam and respect the other faiths (atheism, agnosticism, all religion...).

    I define myself more as a humanist of Muslim culture.

    It became clear that the Koran is a book filled with contradiction or we find everything and the opposite, those who looks for spirituality find their happiness, those who are in search of the power and mental control find justifications for the most atrocious inhumanity.

    I am a really very open-minded person who is on the point to lose faith. I would like to speak about a subject which poisons me the life, how to live if the life does not make any sense at all, if we are  only the fruit of the chaos.

    I was anxious to express you all my sympathy for the work of reflection which you bring, given that i am not English-speaking (it's not my mother tongue) and do not master your language it's difficult for me to bring a quality contribution.

    in fact, i almost don't speak english at all. It's a pity because you are one of rare forum which does not make ideological recovery, on other sites, it is from the false criticism who hides a hardly veiled racism.


    I think your English is fine. Welcome! parrot

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #8 - September 21, 2014, 02:00 PM

     parrot

    Ah - the meaning of life!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #9 - September 21, 2014, 07:55 PM

    Thank you for your warm welcome:))

    Abu Ali, may be there is no meaning, there is no answer that the need for sense corresponds to a utopian illusion. Anyway I feel in mourning, horribly empty inside, anxious, depressive as a person sentenced to death bide his time.

    I think humans need to believe in something wonderful, extraordinary beyond their comprehension to give a sense to our life but in reality our passage on earth has so much importance as that of an ant.

    In fact it is possible that the nature or god does not care more of us that we care about the unfortunate ants that we crush.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #10 - September 21, 2014, 08:43 PM

    Welcome, Ergo. You communicate very well, no need to worry about your English.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #11 - September 21, 2014, 08:58 PM

    Thank you for your warm welcome:))

    Abu Ali, may be there is no meaning, there is no answer that the need for sense corresponds to a utopian illusion. Anyway I feel in mourning, horribly empty inside, anxious, depressive as a person sentenced to death bide his time.

    I think humans need to believe in something wonderful, extraordinary beyond their comprehension to give a sense to our life but in reality our passage on earth has so much importance as that of an ant.

    In fact it is possible that the nature or god does not care more of us that we care about the unfortunate ants that we crush.


    I think the only meaning life has is the meaning we give to it ourselves.

  • faith is leaving
     Reply #12 - September 21, 2014, 09:17 PM

    Welcome. parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #13 - September 21, 2014, 09:31 PM

    Thank you for your warm welcome:))

    Abu Ali, may be there is no meaning, there is no answer that the need for sense corresponds to a utopian illusion. Anyway I feel in mourning, horribly empty inside, anxious, depressive as a person sentenced to death bide his time.

    I think humans need to believe in something wonderful, extraordinary beyond their comprehension to give a sense to our life but in reality our passage on earth has so much importance as that of an ant.

    In fact it is possible that the nature or god does not care more of us that we care about the unfortunate ants that we crush.

     
    I couldn't find Ishina's post, but I see that others have given you some lovely answers to contemplate. I found this quote on the internet though, from Dawkins, which I quite like;

    ''We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.''

    As the great bully says above, it is an extraordinary fact that we are here at all. What is equally extraordinary is that we are here in a way that we are acutely conscious of our existence, and in a way that we are even able to comprehend some of God's equations, and in a way we are able to share wonderment and awe at this beautiful world that we live in. We do not have to look very far to see that this world is filled with an endless supply of living creatures, landscapes, planets, sunsets, galaxies, laughter, joys, friendships and love, and all of these beautifully crafted creations seem made exclusively for us to reach out to and wholeheartedly embrace. And it is because of this wonderful existence that I constantly remind myself to cherish life, to live it to the full, to try to fulfill whatever potential I may have, to embrace all the emotions that are on offer to the human condition, and to share these with others, and encourage them also, lest they also get caught up in the mundane passages of living, and actually forget to live.

    I recently lost someone in my life that I loved probably more than anyone that I will ever love again. This person taught me so many things during his precious time on Earth. But the one thing that has really stuck with me was his infinite desire to live. He loved life so much that he never, ever allowed himself to accept, even when the odds were massively stacked against him, that he would not make it. He held on for longer than humanly possible, he fought with every sinew, and he refused to embrace death even in his very last breath....from him, I have been reminded again to the make the most of this precious gift of life that I have been given. Others may have wanted, or deserved this gift, much more than I do. But unfortunately, they were not given the choice.


    Hi
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #14 - September 21, 2014, 10:26 PM

    Wonderful post, Musivore.

    We can all do with uplifting words - me, no less than others - so thanks Smiley
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #15 - September 21, 2014, 10:30 PM

    Well I've been trying to think of some wise and inspirational words - but I can't - so here's a video of the happiest little penguin in the whole universe!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEqWzw8A9g
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #16 - September 21, 2014, 10:48 PM

    ^ thanks big man, and awwww

    Hi
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #17 - September 22, 2014, 06:29 AM

    Quote
    ''We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.''

    As the great bully says above, it is an extraordinary fact that we are here at all. What is equally extraordinary is that we are here in a way that we are acutely conscious of our existence, and in a way that we are even able to comprehend some of God's equations, and in a way we are able to share wonderment and awe at this beautiful world that we live in. We do not have to look very far to see that this world is filled with an endless supply of living creatures, landscapes, planets, sunsets, galaxies, laughter, joys, friendships and love, and all of these beautifully crafted creations seem made exclusively for us to reach out to and wholeheartedly embrace. And it is because of this wonderful existence that I constantly remind myself to cherish life, to live it to the full, to try to fulfill whatever potential I may have, to embrace all the emotions that are on offer to the human condition, and to share these with others, and encourage them also, lest they also get caught up in the mundane passages of living, and actually forget to live.

    I recently lost someone in my life that I loved probably more than anyone that I will ever love again. This person taught me so many things during his precious time on Earth. But the one thing that has really stuck with me was his infinite desire to live. He loved life so much that he never, ever allowed himself to accept, even when the odds were massively stacked against him, that he would not make it. He held on for longer than humanly possible, he fought with every sinew, and he refused to embrace death even in his very last breath....from him, I have been reminded again to the make the most of this precious gift of life that I have been given. Others may have wanted, or deserved this gift, much more than I do. But unfortunately, they were not given the choice.


    What a wonderful, wonderful post. For a moment there, it made me so humble and yet so appreciative of the life I got. I'm going to make a frigging frame of this phase and hang it in my office.

    "Who really knows?
    Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?"- Rig Veda, 10:129-6
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #18 - September 22, 2014, 06:30 AM

    Welcome, Ergo. Your English pretty good, and we ain't got any Grammar Nazis here, so don't be nervous about it.

    "Who really knows?
    Who will here proclaim it?
    Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
    The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
    Who then knows whence it has arisen?"- Rig Veda, 10:129-6
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #19 - September 22, 2014, 08:38 AM

    Well I've been trying to think of some wise and inspirational words - but I can't - so here's a video of the happiest little penguin in the whole universe!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEqWzw8A9g



    This video makes me smile so much!

    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #20 - September 22, 2014, 09:58 AM

    Hi Ergo,

    Welcome to the CEMB forum parrot

    Don't worry about your English. It is splendid. I am not a native English speaker neither as I live in the land of the Muhammad cartoonists (peace and blessings be upon them).

    Good to have you here Smiley

    Musivore, that was absolutely awesome!!!

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • faith is leaving
     Reply #21 - September 25, 2014, 10:17 PM

    Welcome Ergo. Dont worry coz we r all lost in a different way. Your english is fine btw x

    "Question with boldness even the existence of God...because...if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear"...Thomas Jefferson
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