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Theme Changer

 Topic: Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?

 (Read 8524 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     OP - August 19, 2014, 08:58 PM

    Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UisxYorDNr4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-ljwjVIoI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvDu4lr-N-w

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #1 - August 19, 2014, 09:01 PM

    Oh god no. I can't stand listening to her.
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #2 - August 19, 2014, 09:02 PM

    No.

    Quote
    Oh god no. I can't stand listening to her.


    I don't mind lookng at her. She's cute. A pretty and articulate white Muslima - dawahgandists dream come true.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #3 - August 19, 2014, 09:12 PM

    I find her cringeworthy and painful to both look at and listen to.
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #4 - August 20, 2014, 03:27 AM

    Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?

    No.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #5 - August 20, 2014, 05:24 AM

    Thread title is rhetorical?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #6 - August 20, 2014, 11:59 AM

    I find her cringeworthy and painful to both look at and listen to.

  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #7 - August 20, 2014, 12:00 PM

    I find her cringeworthy and painful to both look at and listen to.


    Aye!
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #8 - August 20, 2014, 12:05 PM

    Quote
    I find her cringeworthy and painful to both look at and listen to.

    Oh god no. I can't stand listening to her.


    well then let us read her on what she says about  British ISLAMIC HEROES

    Quote
    British Jihadis - Turning Mothers Into Informants Is No Solution

    This latest strategy to deter Britons from heading to fight in Syria comes despite evidence ‎suggesting most families are oblivious to their relatives' decision. Abdul Waheed Majeed, who died ‎in Syria in February this year is one of a number of Brits who told his family he was going on a ‎humanitarian mission. Other parents, like those of Abdullah Deghayes were unaware their son had ‎even left the country until it was too late.

     Ensuring any extremist views acquired by fighters abroad ‎are neutralised when arriving back on British shores is as critical for Muslims as it is anyone else, but ‎relying on Muslim women to undertake the work of the security services is not only likely to be ‎ineffective, it also risks further undermining women in highly patriarchal settings as possible ‎‎'agents', not to be trusted. ‎

    Research in December from the King's College-based ICSR estimated 1,900 people from western ‎Europe have travelled to Syria to fight, including 366 from the UK. In terms of the threat posed by ‎their return, Shiraz Maher from the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation and Political ‎Violence suggests around 1 in 9 returning fighters represent cause for concern. And yet this latest ‎advice suggests all Muslims contemplating travelling to Syria are a possible threat and goes on to ‎place the onus for our national security in the hands of the Muslim community, turning mothers ‎into informants. The call can be situated within an increasingly intrusive state of surveillance and ‎securitisation of the British Muslim community.‎

    The Birmingham 'Trojan Horse plot' is just the latest indication that when it comes to Muslims, the ‎counter-terrorism lens is applied even before the facts of the case are established. In every facet ‎of life, from teachers and lecturers asked to spy on students, to healthcare workers on their ‎patients, youth groups whose access to public funding has been made conditional on sharing data ‎with law enforcement agencies, to university Islamic societies under pressure to divulge ‎membership lists - Muslims are well aware they're being closely watched. Who knew even mums ‎would now be roped in! ‎

    Quote
    According to research by ICSR, the profile of foreign fighters is typically male, in their twenties of ‎South-Asian ethnic origin and with recent connections to higher education. Interestingly, this is also ‎the profile which overlaps significantly with those most likely to be unemployed - unemployment ‎among Muslims under the age of 30 is 23 per cent (compared to a UK average for young people of ‎‎17 per cent), stopped and searched, detained at airports , to struggle with poor educational ‎achievements, to be over -represented in our prisons. It is certainly telling that another British fighter, ‎‎23 year old Mohammed el-Araj from Notting Hill, had spent 18 months in prison before he was ‎killed in Syria in November last year. ‎


    If you want to know the real reason the prospect of death can seem more appealing than life, then ‎look at the quality of life these young (predominantly) men are facing. Young men of that ‎demographic have a bleak future ahead - hit harder than most by austerity, they can anticipate ‎joblessness, discrimination, police harassment, possible incarceration. To many young men the ‎jihad may seem appealing because it provides ultimate meaning to a life which might otherwise ‎seem hopeless. ‎

    The UK today has some of the most draconian "anti-terror" legislation in the developed world and ‎these disproportionately negatively affect Muslim Britons. Harassed and coerced into becoming ‎informants, what kind of a relationship do you expect young Muslims to have with a police force ‎which bulldozes its demands through dawn raids and indefinite detentions, yet seemingly fails to ‎tackle rising anti-Muslim hate crimes? What trust can you expect them to have in a system which ‎has demonstrated clear double standards in the extradition of Muslim British citizens and stripped ‎‎37 UK nationals - many of them Muslims, of their citizenship? Despite polls showing that British ‎Muslims strongly identify with the UK, you could hardly excuse a luke warm commitment to ‎Britishness from citizens who could essentially be stripped of that very identity!‎

    Quote
    Ifthekar Jaman, 23, a customer service rep, whose parents run a takeaway restaurant and who was ‎also killed in Syria described his feeling of disconnect from a society he felt rejected from in one of ‎his final posts on Twitter, he said: "It is better for the authorities to allow these Muslims who want ‎to migrate & do jihad. This way, we're out of your way."‎

    Young people, Muslim or not, need a stake in the system. They need to feel that legal, mainstream ‎routes to success are open to them and ultimately they need to find a means of asserting their ‎self-worth. When such avenues are closed, other paths to criminality or extremism can begin to ‎seem more attractive. The UN's counter-radicalisation programme advises "a package of social, ‎political, legal, educational and economic programmes specifically designed to deter disaffected ‎‎(and possibly already radicalised) individuals from crossing the line and becoming terrorists". ‎Where are these initiatives?‎

    In 2010, the communities and local government committee warned the Prevent programme was ‎backfiring and advised that the Department for Communities should devote itself instead "to ‎dealing with the underlying causes of all forms of extremism and division". Instead of providing ‎young Muslims with new opportunities, the government has formulated a revamped PREVENT ‎strategy which Civil liberties group CAGE has described as "cradle-to-grave" levels of surveillance ‎and discrimination. ‎
    In the Muslim community, we don't need studies to tell us that PREVENT has been counter-‎productive in alienating, rather than engaging people. PREVENT is our bête noire. Muslims may not ‎agree on much, but the failure of PREVENT rouses surprising unanimity.

    ‎ According to Dr. Alex P. Schmid, Director of the Terrorism Research Initiative (TRI), "where (young) ‎people have alternative forms of expressing grievances and dissent, where they have other and ‎better occupational options than joining an armed, underground organisation, the appeal of ‎terrorism is likely to be smaller. " The problem is the government would rather invest money in ‎counterproductive policies virtually designed to alienate the Muslim community than address the ‎need for better schools (clue: not through removing state regulation), jobs, opportunities and ‎more broadly a stake in the system. ‎

    Polls indicate that Muslims are even more concerned than the broader public by the risk of extremism, ‎but the current breakdown in trust between the police and the Muslim community means ‎assurances about helping, not criminalising young Muslims are unlikely to be audible. If someone ‎you love is in jeopardy, you stage an intervention, you don't add to their sense of alienation by ‎convincing them even their family members can't be trusted. In other words, you rely on proven ‎methods of social work used for people in crisis. Not criminalisation. The asinine nature of this ‎latest 'surveillance strategy' is evidence of the problematic lens through which Muslims continue ‎to be filtered. In order to confront extremism, the police needs to forge trust with the very ‎communities they consistently casts blanket suspicion over, and ultimately we as a society need to ‎create sufficient stakes for young Muslim men to believe they have a viable future here in the UK.

    that is what she wrote in June 2014.,

    So what should England and other western countries do hijabi girl?  

    do you think   turning western girls in to Muslimahs and making them 3rd or 4th wife  to these guys will help to solve that problem of stopping them going in to these Islamic nations with internal conflicts?  

    Well Jobs are problem all over the world., If you run your life to ground trying to become pious Muslim or Islamic hero by spending time around Mosques and baboons of Islam  and neglecting  education  you lost your time so you will not get over that competition you have in colleges and in job market...

    STUPID LEARN TO CLEAN OUR OWN ASSES .. write something about internal problem in Islam , Islamic preachings and Islamic upbringing..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #9 - August 20, 2014, 02:18 PM

    Do we need voodoo dolls to cure the common cold?
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #10 - August 20, 2014, 03:06 PM

    .............voodoo dolls ............common cold


    Kala Jadoo Cure , Black Magic Ruqyah Rukyah Roqya Mobile +447961186726 or within England  07961186726  

    Let me call and connect her to that number...  or she can go and visit to get cured ...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #11 - August 20, 2014, 04:11 PM

    I don't think we do.

    However, I do think we need social rules and guidance and belonging. I think at this point in society, it is very hard for people to submit themselves to social rules as they do not respect any authority. I think this is more due to the fact that we are ridding ourselves of the old order, but have not replaced it yet. How we figure this out is complex.

    If we take the idea that historically religion has been used to control people's behavior to be true, and we also understand that every society tends to have some control. It might be religion, political, social, or community.
    We have no idea what a society not based on anything will end as long term.

    I think morality is easy to figure out as it relates to say murder and theft. But it is very complicated in other areas of life like drugs, alcohol, children out of wedlock, sexuality... Even if we don't consider it morality, let us consider it social norms.

    A well behaved society is more successful in these regards.


    Or maybe this is all irrelevant and we've reached a point of material well being where there is little consequences to these areas and we can all just live how we like and have the government provide for us Smiley

  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #12 - August 20, 2014, 04:29 PM

    Last part 'tongue in cheek' I hope.
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #13 - August 20, 2014, 04:42 PM

    Only half tongue and cheek.

    It is interesting times with automation and robotics and individualism and freedom.
    All possibilities seem there.

    I myself am pretty traditional in that sense, but I look around and I can't help but think maybe there is a new and different world emerging and it's not wrong ; just different. I just leave it as a big question in my own mind.

    Perhaps sexual restriction, marriage, drugs laws... are all outdated restrictions as much of it is premised on the idea of needing those things for prosperity. If prosperity is a given then why those restrictions? Not for me, but maybe for the next generation or others.

  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #14 - August 20, 2014, 08:42 PM

    Kala Jadoo Cure , Black Magic Ruqyah Rukyah Roqya Mobile +447961186726 or within England  07961186726  

    Let me call and connect her to that number...  or she can go and visit to get cured ...

    Did you actually call?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Re: Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #15 - August 20, 2014, 09:38 PM

    Do we need voodoo dolls to cure the common cold?

    Might be worth a try. Nothing else seems to work. Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #16 - August 20, 2014, 10:06 PM

    It really is strange listening to them in the sense that all they argue for is a social institution.

    Which like I said above might be something very good and something we lack today given that we have not replaced churches with social institutions. No the government does not count. Maybe it will come, maybe it won't.

    It's almost like God doesn't matter, truth doesn't matter, nothing really matters, as long as you have an institution and a leader telling you what is moral within your community. An no, I don't mock that. I really and truly don't. We all need guidance in our life and most of us are not philosophers and most people find it hard to live in isolation. Yet, in order to surrender yourself to that, you have somewhat believe in those things. It's a virtual paradox.

    They spoke of the Chinese, and one thing I have noticed about many Chinese people in Canada is they are often Athiest or non-believers, yet many will make their own community centers and even quasi-christian belief systems. They get that sense of community and how to live a good life (marriage...) without any serious belief in religion.

  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #17 - August 20, 2014, 10:10 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQuIDqY6Cc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OI-BzxV_JU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu7AQTs_y5A

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #18 - August 20, 2014, 10:52 PM

    great videos.
    Loved Dawkins last response.
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #19 - August 20, 2014, 11:06 PM

    That is Dawkins at his best. He's not always at his best (nobody is) but he's good when he's on form.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #20 - August 21, 2014, 04:59 PM

    Not really, since leaving Christianity (I'm still a Theist) I've felt more respect towards humanity, at least to the ones that deserve it.

    I've also learned what good and evil, by themselves, really is...

    Good is anything that is beneficial for the species/tribe as a whole such as inventions, new systems that are efficient, new ways of thinking etc.

    While Bad is anything that is harmful for the species/tribe as a whole such as stealing, murder, being a religious idiot, etc.
  • Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?
     Reply #21 - August 21, 2014, 06:29 PM

    Do we need to tell children Santa Claus won't give them presents if they don't behave well?

    Utilatarain arguments are red herrings to distract the question away from whether there's any convincing reason to believe religions supernatural claims are true, which of course there isn't.
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