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 Topic: Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?

 (Read 2387 times)
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  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     OP - August 18, 2014, 06:52 PM
    It's funny, from being a committed Palestine Solidarity type I now sympathise more and more with Israel. Part of it was Hamas tactics of suicide bombing civilians that turned me off, part was the refusal to give up on right of return, and most recently it's been the whole reproduce, provoke, then play the victim strategy. Also I find Muslim hysteria over this issue increasingly distasteful and hysterical, and the linkage to jihadism too.

    What about you guys? Did your views change once you stopped identifying with it religiously so much?
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #1 - August 18, 2014, 07:19 PM
    I was and still am pro-Palestine not beacuse I am anti-Israel but because I am pro-the right to self determination for any people whose land was forcibly taken from them and still is today and I oppose the tactis of the IDF against the civillian population which many noted academics, humanitarians and reporters ahve referred to as genocidal and describe the situation as one of apartheid. I never was pro-Palestine because of Hamas nor because I was a Muslim. Now that I am an ex-Muslim I do not care about the children of Gaza any less. For this reason I often view the conflict from a non-religious lens, which unfortunately some members here still can't escape.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

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  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #2 - August 18, 2014, 07:31 PM
    Actual one of the final straws for me with Islam was the reaction to the reaction to recent Gaza events by intelligent, secular or even atheist Muslim friends. Seemed they were largely unable to have an objective discussion on it, like it would be the final 'sell out' to see the Israeli point of view. Made me realise the depth of the brainwashing we undergo.

    (I should clarify by the way I am pro a 2-state solution of some kind without the right to return, not because the latter is wrong but rather because it is ultimately inconsistent with a sustainable 2-state solution, demographically speaking. To me this is just the sensible pragmatic solution,  it for most Muslims it makes me 'pro-Israel')
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #3 - August 18, 2014, 07:41 PM
    Nope. Always supported the two state solution and my opinion hasn't changed.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #4 - August 18, 2014, 08:13 PM
    No. I never viewed the conflict from a religious perspective.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #5 - August 19, 2014, 09:39 AM
    It hasn't much. Back when I was a muslim I still had this Israeli friend who helped put some things into perspective, although I was still very much pro-Palestine. I just didn't hate Israel the way everyone here seems to.


    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #6 - August 19, 2014, 11:01 AM
    No.

    And this...

    Quote from: Jedi on August 18, 2014, 07:19 PM
    I was and still am pro-Palestine not beacuse I am anti-Israel but because I am pro-the right to self determination for any people whose land was forcibly taken from them and still is today and I oppose the tactis of the IDF against the civillian population which many noted academics, humanitarians and reporters ahve referred to as genocidal and describe the situation as one of apartheid. I never was pro-Palestine because of Hamas nor because I was a Muslim. Now that I am an ex-Muslim I do not care about the children of Gaza any less. For this reason I often view the conflict from a non-religious lens, which unfortunately some members here still can't escape.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #7 - August 19, 2014, 11:38 AM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 18, 2014, 07:19 PM
    ..................... I never was pro-Palestine because of Hamas nor because I was a Muslim. Now that I am an ex-Muslim I do not care about the children of Gaza any less. For this reason I often view the conflict from a non-religious lens, which unfortunately some members here still can't escape.

    That statement appears to be bit confusing but Children are Children   whether we care less or more.,  As far as I am concerned., right from the get go., right from the day Jewish folks/Zionists(whatever you may call it)  wanted to establish a state  to serve Judaism and all those persecuted Jews from various places during the 2nd world war I consider it  as a religious conflict...

    And the worst of it is.,  Palestinians became victims of their own STUPID LEADERS /stupid religion and..and arrogant Arab Islamic  Rulers along with baboons of Islam  around them..  Without these religions/religious rogues and religious states around them they would easily   lived along with Jewish folks with their own state/country...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #8 - August 19, 2014, 11:49 AM
    I am totally in line with what Jedi wrote.

    Also, I was never a Muslim.

    I have always supported the struggle of the Palestinians for freedom and justice. Not the hijackings and bombings though. But even Hamas and Islamic Jihad seem to have figured out that such tactics don't work since there hasn't been any suicide bombings since a few ones in 2007-2008.

    I remember I was upset when I was a kid when my older cousin as a teenager went to live in a kibbutz in Israel for a while. Somehow I must have picked up what Israel was doing wasn't right. Just like with Apartheid which I campaigned against as a kid and young teenager.

    Neither of my parents were anti- nor pro-Israel so I didn't get it from them.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #9 - August 19, 2014, 12:24 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on August 19, 2014, 11:49 AM
    ............ But even Hamas and Islamic Jihad seem to have figured out that such tactics don't work since there hasn't been any suicide bombings since a few ones in 2007-2008...........

    well that means those Israeli walls  and the ghettos Israelis made out of Palestinian towns and economic hardship they go through every day for bread and butter  worked very effectively to stop those  Islamic Jihad  suicide  tactics
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #10 - August 19, 2014, 02:39 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 18, 2014, 07:19 PM
    I was and still am pro-Palestine not beacuse I am anti-Israel but because I am pro-the right to self determination for any people whose land was forcibly taken from them and still is today and I oppose the tactis of the IDF against the civillian population which many noted academics, humanitarians and reporters ahve referred to as genocidal and describe the situation as one of apartheid. I never was pro-Palestine because of Hamas nor because I was a Muslim. Now that I am an ex-Muslim I do not care about the children of Gaza any less. For this reason I often view the conflict from a non-religious lens, which unfortunately some members here still can't escape.

    Land was forcibly taken? Arabs who attacked Israel in 1967 with the intention of wiping out the whole country and fortunately lost. So from legal (I am not talking about morality here) perspective Israelis have the right to hold on the territories till there is a peace treaty. Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty and Israel vacated the Sinai.

    Only solution is to have 2 countries (1) Palestine with Arab majority and Jewish minority. (2) Isreal with Jewish majority and Arab minority. Both countries should have secular constitutions with complete religious freedom and political equality, equal right and responsibility – one man one vote with right to seek any political office.
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #11 - August 19, 2014, 04:16 PM
    Quote
    Land was forcibly taken? Arabs who attacked Israel in 1967 with the intention of wiping out the whole country and fortunately lost.


    Oh you're right Ram! I forgot that conflict started in 1967 and that NO Palestinian land has been confiscated whatsoever! I suppose the settlements are part of a Arab conspiracy too right?

    Hai Ram! Rama Rama. Hai Ram!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #12 - August 19, 2014, 04:40 PM
    make your points without personal comments please

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #13 - August 20, 2014, 05:04 PM
    I agree billy. Thanks
    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #14 - August 20, 2014, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 19, 2014, 04:16 PM
    Oh you're right Ram! I forgot that conflict started in 1967 and that NO Palestinian land has been confiscated whatsoever! I suppose the settlements are part of a Arab conspiracy too right?
    Hai Ram! Rama Rama. Hai Ram!

    The Palestine was divided by the UN mandate. I know that the land given to Isreal in 1948 was much smaller than present Israeli territory. The problem is that the Arabs refused to accept the partition resulting in the war of 1948. I agree that Isrealis were stronger and they grabbed more land. Arabs should have accepted the partition - Isreal would have been much smaller. But the fact is, Arabs were aggressors in 1967.  The situation is changing in the Middle East - I think - many Arab leaders want Isreal to be strong enough to act as counter balance against the jihadi menace. The Arab dictators have the example in Iran - they know what would happen to them if the Islamic fundamentalists were to take over. They are seeing what the Islamic State is doing in Iraq and Syria. Basher al-Assad may not be so bad after all.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #15 - August 20, 2014, 05:53 PM
    I don't understand why 1967 is usually used as the starting point for all this, or that somehow a return to '1967 Borders' would solve the problem, when they were precisely the problem before 1967!

    The 'first cause' here is the Zionist movement, backed by the the Western powers, that changed the demography of the area in the early part of c20 leading to the creation of Israel in 1948. You could say that was an illegitimate decision...but then again what exactly IS a legitimate decision in these things?

  • Did your opinions on Israel change after you stopped being Muslim?
     Reply #16 - August 20, 2014, 05:54 PM
    It kind of did.

    Granted, I always viewed it from a political perspective. I am not sure why I did. Maybe because I grew up in Apartheid South Africa, I identified with the 'white man colonizer' narrative.

    To a large extent, I still do identify with it and it's extremely saddening when I hear about checkpoints and the day to day life.
    However, one new aspect as entered my psyche since leaving Islam.

    Who would I rather be ruled by? Israeli Jews or Hamas/Muslims? On that point, I'd rather be ruled by Israeli Jews.
    Maybe it's a kind of political fatalism I've adopted recently, but it's not like we have a choice of enlightened societies here.
    History just seems to be about picking powerful winner in the big picture.

    All I know is there are a lot of Muslim Arabs in Israel who live a half decent life. It is somewhat or a democracy and protects people's right in a relatively modern way. It is also way more scientific and advanced. The same is not true of Hamas or whoever would rule the Palestinian areas.

    So while I still have a lot of that underdoog anti-colonial mindset that pushes me to side with the Palestinians (as a people), I've also adopted a bigger picture hat that pushes me to not support Palestine (as a political entity), but Israel.



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