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 Topic: Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..

 (Read 34716 times)
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  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #150 - August 18, 2014, 05:20 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghKqYhf_SuA
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #151 - August 18, 2014, 05:21 PM

    I am fairly sure legally as well it isn't legal to do it the other way around, I might be wrong.


    I think you're right, many European countries have a civil marriage requirement as a prerequisite.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #152 - August 18, 2014, 05:42 PM

    Looks like the old Israeli policy of house demolitions targeting the families of "terrorists" has been brought back. Illegal under article 53 of the 4th Geneva Convention, not to mention evil and cruel as fuck. 
    The *alleged* kidnappers/killers of the Israeli teens that sparked this latest round of violence got their family homes demolished. 

    Quote
    Israeli demolitions 'collective punishment'

    Families decry Israel's demolition of the homes of Palestinians accused of killing three Israeli settlers in June.

    Hebron, occupied West Bank - Sobbing, Ghada Qawasmeh stares at her destroyed home, a two-story stone villa the family built over the course of nine years. The mother of seven is inconsolable, thinking of her husband, Hussam, who is now in an Israeli prison. "This is collective punishment," she says. "What did I or my children do?"

    Before dawn on Monday, Israeli troops destroyed the Qawasmeh family's house in Hebron in the occupied West Bank.

    Israeli officials said the demolition was carried out as punishment for Hussam Qawasmeh's alleged involvement in the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli settler teens in June, and came after Israel's supreme court affirmed the army's position.

    Last month, Israel accused three men of being behind the disappearance and subsequent death of the Israeli youths, who were hitchhiking from a Jewish settlement near Hebron: Hussam and Marwan Qawasmeh, and Amer Abu Eisha.

    Abu Eisha's family home was also demolished on Monday, while Marwan Qawasmeh's was sealed off with cement.

    "We are determined in bringing the ruthless murderers of Gilad, Eyal and Naftali to justice. The demolition of the terrorists' homes conveys a clear message to terrorists and their accomplices that there is a personal price to pay when engaging in terror and carrying out attacks against Israelis," said Peter Lerner, an Israeli army spokesperson, in a press statement.

    While Marwan and Abu Eisha are in hiding, the Shin Bet, Israel's internal security agency, said Hussam admitted to receiving funds for the operation from Hamas operatives in Gaza. But Hamas officials have denied any involvement, and so far, no evidence against the three men has been divulged.

    Ghada also maintains that her husband is innocent, that the real killers are still at large, and that destroying her home is merely an act of revenge. "By demolishing the house they’ll destroy my life and my children’s. There’s a million ways [to deter attacks] without destroying people’s lives," said Ghada, who has now moved in with her in-laws.

    Meanwhile, Amer Abu Eisha's mother, Nadia, is more composed: this is the second time that her home has been demolished since 1995. Back then, a man wanted by the Israelis sought shelter in the building.

    "We’ve spent more than 15 years building this house for us and our children," Nadia said. "God knows what we’ve been through to do that. This is my life, my shelter. But they will demolish, and we will rebuild."

    Parts of the Abu Eisha and Qawasmeh's homes were demolished last month.

    Israeli rights group HaMoked urgently petitioned the Israeli supreme court in July against the demolition of the three men's homes. On August 11, the court rejected the appeal, arguing that "the demolition of the houses was imperative to deter other terrorists from committing additional severe terrorist attacks".

    In this case, the court decided to support army claims "that the deterioration in the security situation justifies a return to the policy it had already invalidated".

    "The supreme court's position has always been [that it's] not competent enough in military affairs," said Jeff Halper, the founder of the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions. "Almost always, when the army says it has to do something, the court says it can."

    For decades, the Israeli authorities have been demolishing the homes of Palestinians it accuses of carrying out attacks. But in 2005, they announced a halt to this practice, which human rights groups regularly condemned as an act of collective punishment.

    Between 2001 and January 2005, Israeli forces demolished 664 homes as punishment, leaving more than 4,000 Palestinians homeless, according to Israeli human rights group B'Tselem. In these cases, no evidence was required to prove that the alleged attacker's family had any prior knowledge of his or her plans.

    The demolitions are often carried out by armoured bulldozers within hours of the attack, and in the late night hours, without enough prior notice to allow families to salvage some of their belongings. In Ghada's case, the Israeli State Attorney accepted HaMoked's request to give her family 12 hours' notice before her house was flattened.

    According to Halper, house demolitions do not serve the army's intended purpose. "They know it doesn't deter," he said. "What it does is it helps the Israeli people feel that they've been avenged. It's basically collective punishment."

    Moshe Ya'alon, a former army chief of staff, was one of the first in Israel's top echelon to question the practice. He formed a review committee in 2004, which found that home demolitions were harmful to Israel because they bred hatred among Palestinians.

    Prior to that, Israeli authorities had maintained that in many cases, fear of home demolitions led families to turn in their relatives to Israeli or Palestinian authorities to stop them from carrying out attacks.

    Punitive demolitions have so far only applied to Palestinians: the homes of three Israelis who are accused of murdering Mohammad Abu Khdair, a Palestinian teenager from the East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Shu'fat, remain intact. In July, two minors and an older man beat Abu Khdair and burned him alive, in apparent revenge for the death of the young Israelis.

    During the search for the three missing Israelis, the Israeli army arrested approximately 1,000 Palestinians in a series of nightly raids.

    "They won't demolish the Israelis' houses," Halper said. "They will say it's not a pattern. It's a one-off thing, it's a bad apple, it's a crazy guy. And therefore since it's an isolated event, it doesn’t warrant demolishing a house because there's nothing preventative here."

    In the meantime, both Nadia and Ghada are still coming to terms with the levelling of their homes.

    "I lost a son, I’m missing another," said Nadia, who has six children, one of whom is dead, another at large, and a third in prison, along with his father. "The bricks are meaningless. I want my son and husband back. They are the ones that mean the world to me."

    http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201481892047643368


  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #153 - August 18, 2014, 05:55 PM

    Woop-dee-woop!

    *Sarcasm*
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #154 - August 18, 2014, 09:36 PM

    Palestinians are under-represented in the military and the upper echelons of power in Jordan, it’s not their native homeland. And Egypt had them under military rule and only used them as pawns against Israel. Yeez, I think you overestimate the role of Islam in this, how about the batshit Jewish squatters in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? Remember Islam didn’t really play much of a role until the 1980s.

    What about Jews in Arab countries? Do the rights of Jews count or not? There were about 1 million Jews living in Arab countries till 1948 - Jewish have been living in Yemen, Tunisia, Morocco and practically every Arab country except Saudi Arabia for hundreds of years, some before the arrival of Islam. All Jews were expelled and their properties confiscated. Palestinians should have rights in Israel but shouldn't Jews also have rights in Arab countries? Are Arab countries willing to let Jews back in and give their properties back? Also give them the freedom of religion and political rights? Will they let serve them in the army?

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #155 - August 18, 2014, 09:49 PM

    Yeez - Israeli law doesn't allow Jews to marry non-Jews, which I guess would have been a good enough reason for her to convert. She may also have converted out of conviction and/or pressure from her husband and the in-laws, but as the law stands it makes it difficult for anyone in her position not to convert.

    With all due respect, it is not true. Israel law allows Jews to marry non-Jew and allows the Jew the freedom to convert. She will not be killed - she will NOT loose her citizenship. But imagine a Muslim Palestinian woman were to marry a Jew and converet to Judaism. she will most likely be killed by her own family. Israel even recognizes the marriages registered in foreign countries between a Jew and a non-Jew.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #156 - August 19, 2014, 02:27 AM

    Did you even read any of the links? It's not possible for Jews and non-Jews to marry legally in Israel. 

    Quote
    What about Jews in Arab countries? Do the rights of Jews count or not? There were about 1 million Jews living in Arab countries till 1948 - Jewish have been living in Yemen, Tunisia, Morocco and practically every Arab country except Saudi Arabia for hundreds of years, some before the arrival of Islam. All Jews were expelled and their properties confiscated. Palestinians should have rights in Israel but shouldn't Jews also have rights in Arab countries? Are Arab countries willing to let Jews back in and give their properties back? Also give them the freedom of religion and political rights? Will they let serve them in the army? 


    What? Talk about a red herring. I didn't even mention the right of return, all I'm saying is Palestinians have a right to their own country, just like Israelis and Jordanians and Syrians and everyone else. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #157 - August 19, 2014, 11:50 AM

    What about Jews in Arab countries? Do the rights of Jews count or not? There were about 1 million Jews living in Arab countries till 1948 - Jewish have been living in Yemen, Tunisia, Morocco and practically every Arab country except Saudi Arabia for hundreds of years, some before the arrival of Islam. All Jews were expelled and their properties confiscated. Palestinians should have rights in Israel but shouldn't Jews also have rights in Arab countries? Are Arab countries willing to let Jews back in and give their properties back? Also give them the freedom of religion and political rights? Will they let serve them in the army?


    I'll refer you to this article written a couple of years ago by a Mizrahi Jew living in Israel:
    http://972mag.com/spineless-bookkeeping-the-use-of-mizrahi-jews-as-pawns-against-palestinian-refugees/56472/
    Quote
    In the last three years, we have witnessed an intensive campaign aimed at winning political and legal recognition of Arab Jews as “refugees.” The aim of this campaign is to create symmetry in public opinion between the Palestinian refugees and the “Oriental” Jews who arrived to Israeli in the 50s and 60s, presenting both populations as victims of the 1948 war. The Foreign Ministry, under the leadership of Deputy Minister Danny Ayalon, is intensively collecting evidence which would offset – as if it were an algebra equation – the testimonies of Palestinians regarding expulsion, looting and killings.

    A couple of years ago, the Knesset passed a law ordering every Israeli government that deals with Arab representatives (i.e. Palestinians) to treat the Jews of Arab origin as refugees. Several weeks ago, the National Security Council published a paper recommending the government “create a linkage between the Palestinian refugees and the Jews of Arab origin.” Former head of the NSC Uzi Arad decided upon his appointment to lead a special team that would come up with the official Israeli policy on “the Jewish refugees of Arab counties.”

    Arad has received Prime Minister Netanyahu’s blessing for his initiative. He set up a special body inside the NSC and had representatives from the Ministry of Justice, the Finance Ministry and the Foreign Ministry join the discussions. Historians, economists and representatives of Jewish organizations such as WOJAC (World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries) and JJAC (Justice for Jews from Arab Countries) were invited as well. The council recommended that the prime minister make the “Jewish refugees” and their compensations claims an inseparable part of the negotiations over the issue of Palestinian refugees.

    Calls to define Jews from Arab countries as refugees were made in the past, but back then, they were silenced by Israeli governments. Why the change of policy? Partly due to a relatively new recognition that Israel will no longer be able to hide its responsibility for the Nakba.

    The Foreign Ministry’s bookkeeper’s trick betrays the fear of the Palestinian claim of compensation and return – a central tenet of Palestinian demands. It proves that Israeli recognizes that the ’67 paradigm will not bring an end to the conflict, due to its denial of the Nakba. As a result of this recognition, the leaders of the new campaign hope to use the Mizrahi Jews to block the Palestinians from carrying out their “right of return,” and offset the compensation claims might be forced to pay for the Palestinian property that was expropriated by the Custodian of Absentee Property (the Israeli authority that confiscates and manages Palestinian property, most notably real estate). It is an idea that is historically twisted, unwise from a policy perspective and unjust from a moral point of view – as its history demonstrates.

    A miserable history worth reciting

    The campaign for the recognition of Jews from Arab countries as refugees was launched by no other than President Bill Clinton, during an interview he gave to Israeli Channel 1 in July, 2000. Ehud Barak, then the prime minister, declared this “achievement” in an interview to Israeli journalist Dan Margalit a month later.

    Until then, Israeli governments had avoided recognizing Jews from Arab countries as refugees. They did so because (a) of the fear that such a declaration would reawaken what Israel had tried to erase and forget – the right of return; (b) a concern that Jews might submit compensation claims to Arab countries, and as a result – bring about lawsuits by Palestinians against Israel; and (c) because such a decision would have forced the state to update all of its history books, forming a new narrative according to which Mizrahi Jews didn’t come to Israel due to Zionism, but against their will. Any historian raising such a claim would have been labeled a “post-Zionist.”

    The idea to equate Mizrahi Jews with Palestinian refugees was first cooked up by Bobby Brown, government advisor for diaspora affairs, and members of his office, along with representatives of organizations like the World Jewish Congress, the World Sephardi Federation, and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. Avi Beker, the secretary general of the Jewish Congress, and Malcolm Hoenlein, the executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents, convinced Professor Ervin Cotler, a Canadian member of parliament and expert in international law, to join the campaign. An umbrella organization was established, called “Justice for Jews from Arab Countries.” However, it did not manage to garner much excitement for the campaign, including from among the Jewish world. The campaign failed to enlist a notable declaration from central Israeli politicians until recently. That’s not surprising. This campaign has a miserable history that should be internatlized, because history can come in very handy.

    In the 1980s, the World Organization for Jews from Arab Countries – WOJAC – was established. Yigal Alon, then foreign minister, feared that WOJAC would serve as a greenhouse for what he called “sectorial organizing.” Again, WOJAC wasn’t established in order to help Mizrahi Jews but rather to create a deterrent to block demands from the national Palestinian movement – primarily the demand to compensate refugees, and the right of return. The use of the term “refugees” wasn’t unreasonable, as the term had become central in the historical discourse and in international law, following World War II. UN Security Council Resolution 242, passed in 1967, referred to a “just settlement of the refugee problem” in the Middle East. In the 1970s, Arab states asked to specifically refer to “Arab refugees in the Middle East,” but the U.S. government, through Ambassador to the UN Arthur Goldberg, opposed it.

    In a working paper prepared in 1977 by Cyrus Vance, then the secretary of state, ahead of a possible Geneva Conference meeting, he wrote about the pressure to find a solution to the “refugee problem,” without mentioning which refugees he was referring to. WOJAC, which had tried to put into use the term “Jewish refugees,” had failed. In addition to Arabs, many Zionist Jews all over the world were opposed to the initiative. I recommend that the organizers of the current campaign examine the anatomy of the organization that went from Zionist to post-Zionist in the course of its activities, and to take a page from the laws of political action’s unintended consequences.

    The thinker behind the idea of “Jewish refugees” in WOJAC was Ya’akov Meron, the head of the department for Arab legal affairs in the Justice Ministry. Meron formulated the link in the most extreme thesis regarding the history of the Jews of the Arab world. He claimed that the Jews were expelled from the Arab countries in an act coordinated with Palestinian leaders, and called it “ethnic cleansing.” Meron sharply diverged from the Zionist epos, which he said produced romantic terms like “Magic Carpet” [the operation that brought Yemeni Jews to Israel] or “Operation Ezra and Nehemiah” [the airlift that brought Iraqi Jews], suppressing the “fact” that the departure of the Jews was the fruit of an “Arab policy of expulsion.” In order to complete the analogy between Palestinians and Mizrahis, WOJAC’s people even claimed that the Mizrahis lived in refugee camps during the 1950s (referring to transit camps for Jewish immigrants), just like the Palestinian refugees. This claim sparked angry complaints on the part of figures in the state’s founding institutions, which termed it “treason.”

    Refugees and free will

    The Foreign Ministry, which became alarmed by WOJAC’s tenacity, proposed to put an end to the campaign, claiming that classifying the Mizrahi Jews as refugees was a double-edged sword. At the time, Israel insisted upon maintaining a policy of ambiguity regarding this complex issue. In 1949, the state rejected a joint proposal by Britain and Iraq for a population swap (Iraqi Jews for Palestinian refugees), out of fear that it would have to be responsible for settling “surplus refugees” in Israel. The Foreign Ministry called WOJAC divisive and separatist, asking the organization to cease acting independently in opposition to state interests. In the end, the Foreign Ministry cut off funding to the organization. Justice Minister Yossi Beilin even fired Ya’akov Meron from the Justice Ministry’s department for Arab legal affairs.

    It must be stated that there is no serious researcher in Israel or outside it that adopted the organization’s extreme rhetoric. Moreover, in its attempt to strengthen the Zionist thesis and assist the state in its war against Palestinian nationalists, WOJAC achieved the exact opposite. It presented a confused Zionist stance vis-a-vis the conflict, angered many Mizrahi Jews across the world – as it presented them as lacking motivation to move to Israel – and enslaved the interests of the Mizrahi Jews (especially over the issue of Jewish property in Arab countries) to what he accidentally termed “national interests.” He failed to understand that categorizing Mizrahi Jews as refugees opens a Pandora’s box that hurts both Jews and Arab.

    Out of a desire to find a magic solution to the question of the refugees, the state readopted the formula, and is now promoting it with great enthusiasm all over the world. It will be interesting to hear the position of the Minister of Education regarding the narrative that the Jewish organizations present as part of the campaign. Will he immediately establish a ministerial committee to change the history textbooks so that they match the new post-Zionist genre? Every honest person, whether Zionist or not, must admit that the analogy between the Palestinians and the Mizrahi Jews is baseless. The Palestinian refugees did not ask to leave Palestine. In 1948, many Palestinian villages were destroyed, and nearly 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled from the borders of historic Palestine. Those who fled did not leave out of their own free will.

    On the other hand, Jews from Arab countries arrived here through the initiative of the State of Israel, as well as Jewish organizations. Some of them arrived out of free will, some against their will. Some of them lived comfortably in Arab countries, and some lived in fear and under oppression. The history of the Mizrahi immigration is complex and cannot be resigned to one simplistic explanation. Many lost a great deal of property, and there is no doubt that they should be allowed to submit individual property claims against Arab countries, something Israel and WOJAC have rejected until today. For instance, the peace agreement with Egypt does not allow individual property claims against the Egyptian government. Jewish property is seen as the property of the State of Israel, and as important leverage to offset the future claims of Palestinian refugees.

    Another example: During the Gulf War, the property of a Jewish-Iraqi family in Ramat Gan suffered damages. In their compensation claim, a seasoned attorney advised the family to include a house that had been confiscated by the Iraqi government in 1952. Israel’s Foreign Ministry forbade the move, due to the state’s policy of holding onto such property as leverage for future negotiations with the Palestinians.

    The analogy between the Palestinian refugees and the Jewish Mizrahis is thus baseless, not to mention offensive and immoral. It serves to cause friction between Mizrahi Jews and Palestinians, it is an insult to a great number of Mizrahim and harms chances for real reconciliation. More than that: the analogy points to a clear lack of understanding regarding the meaning of the Nakba. The Nakba does not only refer to the events of the war. The Nakba is, at its core, the prevention of those who were expelled from returning to their homes, lands and families after the establishment of the State of Israel. The Nakba is an active and clear policy of the State of Israel – not just the chaos of war.

    The temptation to use this concept of offsetting claims is understandable, but we cannot use scarecrows in order to refute the moral and political demands of the Palestinians. Such manipulation only worsens the crime and increases the psychological gap between Jews and Palestinians. Even if some of the Palestinians give up on realizing the right of return (as, for example, Dr. Khalil Shikaki claims), such tricks are not the way to achieve this end. Every peace agreement must be based on Israeli acknowledgement of past injustices and finding a fair solution. These accounting tricks turn Israel into a morally and politically spineless bookkeeper.

    Prof. Yehouda Shenhav teaches sociology at Tel Aviv University. He was the editor of Theory & Criticism for 10 years, and is currently the senior editor for Organization Studies. Shenhav was a co-founder of The Mizrahi Rainbow Coalition in 1996.

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #158 - August 19, 2014, 12:14 PM

    I'll refer you to this article written a couple of years ago by a Mizrahi Jew living in Israel:
    http://972mag.com/spineless-bookkeeping-the-use-of-mizrahi-jews-as-pawns-against-palestinian-refugees/56472/

    So zeca  what information do you get from that article of  Iraqi born Yehouda Shenhav?
    Quote
    On the other hand, Jews from Arab countries arrived here through the initiative of the State of Israel, as well as Jewish organizations. Some of them arrived out of free will, some against their will. Some of them lived comfortably in Arab countries, and some lived in fear and under oppression. The history of the Mizrahi immigration is complex and cannot be resigned to one simplistic explanation. Many lost a great deal of property, and there is no doubt that they should be allowed to submit individual property claims against Arab countries, something Israel and WOJAC have rejected until today. For instance, the peace agreement with Egypt does not allow individual property claims against the Egyptian government. Jewish property is seen as the property of the State of Israel, and as important leverage to offset the future claims of Palestinian refugees.

     He may be Jew living in Israel but that doesn't mean his writing are Moses commandments..  

    No one in Israel is stopping him if he wants to go back to Iraq and live there. Question is,  does he wants to see Israel completely dismantled  and move all those migrated Jews   back to where they come from?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #159 - August 19, 2014, 12:31 PM

    Quote
    No one in Israel is stopping him if he wants to go back to Iraq and live there. Question is,  does he wants to see Israel completely dismantled move all those migrated Jews to move back were they came from?


    Why would he want to go back to Iraq to live? Or want to see Israel dismantled? What does this have to do with anything?
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #160 - August 19, 2014, 12:42 PM

    Why would he want to go back to Iraq to live? Or want to see Israel dismantled? What does this have to do with anything?

    So zeca,  what is the take home message of such article from his side, from a reader point of view like you or me and from PLO Point of view and Hamas point of view?

    what does he wants to convey to   the readers?

    Quote

    Quote


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #161 - August 19, 2014, 02:36 PM

    Quote
    So zeca, what is the take home message of such article ... ?

    Well he's saying a lot there - but some basic points that I'd take from it:

    Mizrahi Jews have their own real grievances against the states they originally came from, and also against Israeli society and the Israeli state. These stand on their own and aren't something to be traded off against Palestinian claims. A lot of Mizrahis aren't at all happy about their issues being made use of in an Israeli government propaganda war. If you like I can find any number of quotes on this.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #162 - August 19, 2014, 02:50 PM

    I actually know of descendants of Mizrahi Jews whose families were thrown out and lost substantial amounts of wealth and property (plenty of Iraqi Jews were quite wealthy, for example) so there was expulsion and loss and the ma'aborot ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma'abarot ) were a real thing. It's a stretch to deny these people were refugees (not to mention the Jews displaced from Jerusalem and the West Bank in '48).  

    I agree that it's not comparable to the nakba and the Israeli government is peddling it to delegitimise the nakba and Palestinian suffering. I also believe acknowledgement, an apology and compensation is in order. Denial of the nakba is mainstream in Israel as is the BS propaganda narrative that the Palestinians left under orders of the Arab armies. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #163 - August 19, 2014, 02:55 PM

    Well he's saying a lot there - but some basic points that I'd take from it:

    Mizrahi Jews have their own real grievances against the states they originally came from, and also against Israeli society and the Israeli state. These stand on their own and aren't something to be traded off against Palestinian claims. A lot of Mizrahis aren't at all happy about their issues being made use of in an Israeli government propaganda war. If you like I can find any number of quotes on this.

    Well  I hope you know and I am sure you know that Mizrahi Jews are NOT a monolithic community and they are very diverse coming/descending from  Jews from modern Iraq, Syria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Dagestan, Azerbaijan, Iran, Lebanon, Uzbekistan, Kurdish areas, Afghanistan,  Pakistan and what not.

    Also I am sure you know that these  Mizrahi Jews  are ~ 65% of present  Israeli Jewish Population and many of them were/are in Israeli governments., SO you say they are NOT happy in  Israel or Israeli policies against Palestinians ..

    Well 65% of them, They have voting rights they  could easily change the government and change its policy., Can't they?

    Or..or. can they move back to the lands  where they came from and vacate their Israeli properties to Palestinians?  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #164 - August 19, 2014, 02:58 PM

    Quote
    It's a stretch to deny these people were refugees (not to mention the Jews displaced from Jerusalem and the West Bank in '48).

    I wouldn't disagree with this. I think the writer of the article was objecting more to the government's exploitation of the idea of refugee status for it's own ends.

    There's more about this here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/israeli-hasbara-effort-justice-for-jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries-gets-pushback-from-baghdadi-jews.html
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #165 - August 19, 2014, 03:01 PM

    Yep, I agree.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #166 - August 19, 2014, 03:12 PM

    From the link I posted above:
    Quote
    A) We most sincerely thank the Israeli government for confirming our status as refugees following a rapid, 62-year-long evaluation of our documents.

    B) We request that Ashkenazi Jews are also recognized as refugees so that they won’t consider sending to our homes the courteous officers of the Oz immigration enforcement unit.

    C) We are seeking to demand compensation for our lost property and assets from the Iraqi government – NOT from the Palestinian Authority – and we will not agree with the option that compensation for our property be offset by compensation for the lost property of others (meaning, Palestinian refugees) or that said compensation be transferred to bodies that do not represent us (meaning, the Israeli government).

    D) We demand the establishment of an investigative committee to examine: 1) if and by what means negotiations were carried out in 1950 between Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri as-Said, and if Ben-Gurion informed as-Said that he is authorized to take possession of the property and assets of Iraqi Jewry if he agreed to send them to Israel; 2) who ordered the bombing of the Masouda Shem-Tov synagogue in Baghdad, and if the Israeli Mossad and/or its operatives were involved. If it is determined that Ben-Gurion did, in fact, carry out negotiations over the fate of Iraqi Jewish property and assets in 1950, and directed the Mossad to bomb the community’s synagogue in order to hasten our flight from Iraq, we will file a suit in an international court demanding half of the sum total of compensation for our refugee status from the Iraqi government and half from the Israeli government.

    E) Blessings for a happy new year, a year of peace and prosperity, a year of tranquility and fertility.

    ~ The Ramat Gan Committee of Baghdadi Jews

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #167 - August 19, 2014, 03:15 PM

    ................

    ~ The Ramat Gan Committee of Baghdadi Jews

    well then they should go and join   Baghdadi  Caliph

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #168 - August 19, 2014, 03:31 PM

    Yeez - they've got as much right to live in Israel/Palestine as anyone else, Israeli or Palestinian, and every reason to be unhappy with the Israeli government.

    -------

    More about Mizrahi issues from the archives of +972: http://972mag.com/?s=Mizrahi&page=0
    The story of the Yemenite babies is one that stands out.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #169 - August 19, 2014, 04:21 PM

    Quote
     from  zeca on Today at 03:12 PM
    ................
    ~ The Ramat Gan Committee of Baghdadi Jews

    well then they should go and join   Baghdadi  Caliph

    Yeez - they've got as much right to live in Israel/Palestine as anyone else, Israeli or Palestinian, and every reason to be unhappy with the Israeli government.

    ------
    More about Mizrahi issues from the archives
     of +972: http://972mag.com/?s=Mizrahi&page=0
    The story of the [url=http://972mag.com/the-tragedy-of-the-lost-yemenite-children-in-the-footsteps-of-the-adoptees/85930/]Yemenite babies[/url] is one that stands out.

    Off course  they have the right to criticize the Israeli Govt Policies, They have the rights to speak out and educate  Israelis,   They have rights to vote and defeat Israeli Govt and form the new  govt and change the policies of Israel    zeca..

    my Veiled remark was about that  Ramat Gan Committee of Baghdadi Jews., they are publicizing   as if they are not  Israelis but  special Baghdadi Jews  and they are so special Juice  Baghdadi Juice., they need to add  that The Ramat Gan Committee of Baghdadi Jews on their advertisement

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #170 - August 19, 2014, 04:28 PM

    Yeez - sorry but you've lost me there. I really don't follow what you're saying.

    Anyway I've found this documentary on the Israeli Black Panthers which looks interesting - though I haven't watched it through yet.

    http://vimeo.com/71662328
    Quote
    In the 1970s, a new protest movement burst into Israeli politics. Calling themselves the Black Panthers, this group of rebellious young Mizrahi men was intensely critical of racism and class bias within the Israeli establishment. They embraced Robin Hood-like campaigns such as "Operation Milk," which stole food from rich areas in Jerusalem and distributed it to impoverished immigrants. Their bold moves captured the attention of the young and disenfranchised while earning the animosity of others (Golda Meir called them barbarians). Thirty years ago, as a novice filmmaker, Nissim Mossek set out to document the Panthers' burgeoning movement, following their demonstrations and ferocious confrontations with police. He and the Panthers had no compunctions about waking up families in the middle of the night to ask them to "present their poverty" to the camera, hoping to inform the public about the struggle for equality within Israeli society and incite others to action. Mossek's 1970s protest film vanished suspiciously just after completion; for years it was believed to be lost. The recent discovery of a copy in the Jerusalem Cinematheque prompted the filmmaker to investigate the demise of the Panthers. He tracked down surviving members to examine their sometimes surprising trajectories and their deeply conflicted relationships to their shared radical past. Intercutting footage from his early film with his modern-day research, the diverse, volatile and charismatic subjects (including Panthers Charlie Bitton and Sa'adia Marciano) cast light onto a lesser-known chapter in the struggle for equality and justice of Mizrahi Jews, and illuminate issues of disunity that continue to reveal themselves in today's Israel.

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #171 - August 19, 2014, 09:05 PM

    Another article by Yehouda Shenhav, dealing with the reasons for Iraqi Jews leaving for Israel: http://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/yshenhav/files/2013/07/the-theft-of-baghdad.pdf
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #172 - August 19, 2014, 09:41 PM

    Yeez - sorry but you've lost me there. I really don't follow what you're saying.

    That is OK zeca., you are not the first one to say that..
    Quote


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25tg5mXdx04

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #173 - August 20, 2014, 03:21 PM

    Yeez - thanks for the Yehouda Shenhav links.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #174 - August 20, 2014, 06:26 PM

    well forget peace moves the news says  Israel 'targets Hamas leader Deif'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5MKqNlL1fo

    Quote
    Hamas says the wife and child of its military commander, Mohammed Deif, have been killed in an Israeli air strike on the Gaza Strip. At least 19 Palestinians have died since hostilities resumed on Tuesday, with both sides blaming each other for the collapse of the Cairo peace talks.

    The Israeli military said it had carried out 92 air strikes in response to 137 rockets fired at its territory. Six weeks of fierce fighting have left at least 2,103 people dead. Egypt has expressed "profound regret" at the end of the 10-day period of calm and said it will continue trying to secure a lasting truce.
     

    It is believed the air strike on a house in Gaza City late on Tuesday that killed Mohammed Deif's wife and their young son was intended to kill the militant himself, reports the BBC's Kevin Connolly in Jerusalem. A Hamas official told the AFP news agency that Mr Deif was "still alive and leading the military operation" against Israel.



    Hamas leadership: (L) Ismail Haniyeh, (C) Mohammed Deif, (R) Mahmoud al- Zahar

    They tried to get him some 12 years ago...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VV4hmp0iK0


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #175 - August 21, 2014, 08:31 AM

    Article about the "terror tunnels": 

    Quote
    Were Gaza tunnels built to harm Israeli civilians?

    For weeks we’ve been hearing about the threat the Gaza tunnels pose to Israeli civilians. In reality, every tunnel so far has been used against military targets alone.

    By Emanual Yelin (translated by Sinewave)

    The existence of the tunnels in Gaza was well-known to Israel’s Defense Ministry, although their scope was only revealed to the general public in the latest round of fighting. The tunnels were described as a strategic threat against Israeli civilians. Tunnel openings, so we were told, were found near dining halls and kindergartens, and the fighting we were ostensibly dragged into prevented a terrible disaster in the form of mass terrorist attacks against Gaza-perimeter communities. The prime minister and the media declared unilaterally that Israeli civilians are the targets. The fact that, time after time, victims of tunnel attacks were soldiers was painted as coincidental. Was it? We must ask ourselves some questions on the matter.

    Was there a plan to simultaneously send 200 terrorists from dozens of tunnels to six Israeli towns on the border of Gaza on Jewish New Year? Was it only prevented by the kidnapping of the three Israeli youths and Operation Protective Edge, as Ariel Kahane claimed in his article on NRG [Hebrew]?

    No. Not only does this story make no sense – if Hamas had such a genius plan, why didn’t they hold off on shooting rockets for another three months? Eventually the “plot” was revealed to be a rumor that gained traction in the ultra-Orthodox press that got some traction, with intelligence personnel denying the claim [Hebrew]. If such a horrific story was realized, it would have been a terrible disaster. But contrary to the nonsense Avri Gilad wrote in his Facebook post [Hebrew], with a similar story that got hundreds of thousands of views, Israel did not “face its first threat to its existence since the 1948 war” much like the U.S. did not face a threat to its existence on 9/11.

    Was Benjamin Netanyahu right in his national address when he said “we will not end the mission, we will not end the operation, without neutralizing the tunnels that exist solely to annihilate our civilians and to kill our children?”

    No. It is certain that this is not their sole purpose, and probably not their primary purpose, either. We’ve already seen six instances in which Hamas was able to use the tunnels against Israel. Once when Gilad Shalit was captured, and the rest during the current operation. In all instances, Hamas’ target were IDF soldiers, not the communities.

    Take the case of the infiltration near Nir-Am. Two squads came out of the earth inside Israeli territory wearing IDF uniforms. When IDF forces arrived, the militants shot at them and killed four of the soldiers. Afterwards the militants tried to go back to Gaza through the tunnels and most of them were killed. There were no signs that they intended to make it to one of the communities. Quite the contrary. The impression made by a video released the IDF Spokesperson is that they were not trying to advance at all but were rather organizing an ambush for IDF soldiers. And again, after the clash they tried to go back to Gaza, not to reach the community.

    All this did not keep the Southern Command major general from speaking confidently [Hebrew] about the terrorists who “threaten communities along the Gaza perimeter” and about “IDF forces that were a barrier between the terrorists and the communities.” It sounds nice, but the facts speak for themselves.

    So what is the purpose of the tunnels?

    Most likely to hurt IDF forces and capture soldiers. Little by little we are starting to hear military reporters saying this explicitly. Maybe not on Channel 2, but after militants infiltrated a pillbox near Nahal Oz, Channel 10′s defense correspondent Alon Ben-David explicitly said that “there is no doubt their goal is to hurt and capture soldiers – not civilians” [Hebrew]. A senior military source told Israel’s Army Radio that “all tunnels were aimed towards military targets and not Gaza-perimeter communities” [Hebrew]. Furthermore, in a voice recording by the leader of the Qassam Brigade, Mohammed Deif, he is heard saying: “we prefer to fight the soldiers of the enemy’s elite units and kill them, and not the civilians in the villages adjacent to Gaza.”

    So we can be certain that the tunnels will not be used for terrorism against civilians in the kibbutzim along the barrier wall?

    No. We must not become complacent. We cannot count on Hamas that their preferences will not revert back to murdering civilians, as they did countless times before, or simply that in the absence of a military target they will decide to go for “option B.” We must not take risks. Whenever a penetration is discovered, the IDF must treat it as if it may be an attempt to attack communities near the point of penetration, and instruct the residents to remain in their homes until it’s ensured that no terrorists are moving about. However, we must not conflate the necessary security measures with what is revealed after the incident. And in every case thus far it turned out that the goal was to hurt soldiers. Not communities and not civilians.

    But if they didn’t want to hurt communities, why did they dig tunnels under dining halls and kindergartens inside those communities?

    Here’s the thing: they didn’t. It turns out that there were no tunnels into the communities. The tunnel into the Kisufim dining hall? That was an old sewer line [Hebrew] mistakenly identified as a tunnel shaft.

    Spokeswomen for two of the regional municipalities adjacent to Gaza published a letter to military reporters, in which they asked them to ensure accurate reporting and stop claiming that there were infiltrations into the communities: “the fact is that most of these incidents occur far from the community and, fortunately, not inside any civilian area. Reality is tough and scary enough as it is; we ask you to think of the residents as they sit in their locked homes and to stick to the facts. We are aware of the needs of both the IDF as well as journalists to illustrate the scope of the danger and the importance of uncovering a tunnel. But associating that with a name of a specific community only increases anxiety levels among residents and their immediate environment.

    One of spokeswomen, who appeared on Israel’s educational channel, said that the tunnel which was ostensibly aimed at a kindergarten in Ein Hashlosha, reached about 2.5 kilometers from the community, and its exit shafts were near an IDF security path.

    So where do the tunnels go?

    Probably just a few hundred meters from the barrier wall and a few kilometers from the communities. It’s hard to find accurate data about where the exit shafts are. But in all five instances of infiltration, the militants emerged 200-400 meters away from the wall, as can be seen on the maps in the IDF Spokesperson videos. For example, the alleged penetration into Kisufim was 1.5 kilometers away from the community. And actually, the tunnel’s exit point is just as close to Kibbutz Sufa.

    If the exit shaft is 200 meters from the wall, and the Ein Hashlosha houses closest to the wall are 3 kilometers away from it, the exit shaft cannot be 800 meters away, even if it sounds more dramatic for Channel 2′s Danny Kushmaro to end the article that way.

    So it’s okay that Hamas is digging the tunnels?

    Not at all! Digging a tunnel across borders is in itself a violation of sovereignty. And sending armed squads through them is an act of aggression, even if the target is military and not civilian.

    So what are you going on and on about?

    Because you need to tell the truth. Not fluff up the facts, not invent ridiculous horror scenarios, not talk with loaded slogans that include untrue statements, not cry “wolf.” For all of our concerns with Hasbara, we end up hurting the residents of the Gaza-perimeter communities, who develop unnecessary anxieties, while damaging our own credibility. And it’s not really necessary at all. Hamas’ face is ugly as it is even without photoshopping horns onto it.


    http://972mag.com/were-gaza-tunnels-built-to-harm-israeli-civilians/95279/
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #176 - August 21, 2014, 11:03 AM


    I agree with most of what it says but this
    Quote
    Was there a plan to simultaneously send 200 terrorists from dozens of tunnels to six Israeli towns on the border of Gaza on Jewish New Year? Was it only prevented by the kidnapping of the three Israeli youths and Operation Protective Edge, as Ariel Kahane claimed in his article on NRG [Hebrew]?
    No. Not only does this story make no sense – if Hamas had such a genius plan, why didn’t they hold off on shooting rockets for another three months? Eventually the “plot” was revealed to be a rumor that gained traction in the ultra-Orthodox press that got some traction, with intelligence personnel denying the claim [Hebrew]. If such a horrific story was realized, it would have been a terrible disaster. But contrary to the nonsense Avri Gilad wrote in his Facebook post [Hebrew], with a similar story that got hundreds of thousands of views,
    Israel did not “face its first threat to its existence since the 1948 war” much like the U.S. did not face a threat to its existence on 9/11.

     is NONSENSE   to compare the threat to  existence of US of A  with the  threat to existence Israel since the 1948 .. is nothing less than stupid..

    And the news says., Israeli Strike in Gaza Strip Kills 3 Top Hamas Commanders... nytimes.com
    Quote
    Palestinians say Israeli airstrike targeted, missed top Hamas commander in Gaza Strip   washingtonpost.com

    JERUSALEM — Palestinians on Wednesday accused Israel of attempting to assassinate the top Hamas military commander in the Gaza Strip as the hopes for a cease-fire were dashed by a day-long exchange of taunts and threats, alongside escalating rocket fire and airstrikes that left 22 Palestinians dead.  Hamas said the attack targeted the group’s military chief, Mohammed Deif, killing his wife and child but not Deif.

    The Hamas militant mocked Israel for what he described as a failed attempt on Tuesday to assassinate Mohammed Deif, the top commander of the Qassam Brigades.

    “You have failed, and you have missed,” the Hamas spokesman said ..

    Idiots mocking Israelis could only kill his wife and child ...   well not big deal wife and child... Sure he has 3 more wives one in Dubai  and more children..  
    Quote
    Hamas, though, was not backing down. In a televised statement Wednesday, a masked representative for the Hamas military wing, known as the Qassam Brigades, warned that Hamas rockets would begin to strike Israel’s strategic interests, including Ben Gurion Airport outside Tel Aviv, on Thursday morning.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #177 - August 21, 2014, 11:41 AM

    Hamas threatens to strike Tel Aviv airport and the civilian planes flying in and out of Israel  says   - Telegraph.co.uk

    Quote
    Hamas on Wednesday appeared to warn that it would target Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion airport. "We are warning international airlines and press them to stop flying into Ben Gurion airport from 6.00am Thursday," said an al-Qassam Brigades spokesman.

    Hamas also claimed it had fired two rockets aimed at Israeli gas fields 19 miles off the coast of Gaza, in what would be the first such attack. Israel said that no rockets had struck any gas platforms.


    Iran’s deputy FM slams Egypt for "not allowing in Iranian aid for Gaza"  says news

    A Palestinian woman, hoping to cross into Egypt, cries as she waits with others at the Rafah crossing between Egypt and the southern Gaza Strip, August 12, 2014
    Quote
    Egyptian newspaper reports that Rafah crossing closed from the Palestinians side on Wednesday due to renewal of fighting between Israel and Gaza. Iran’s deputy foreign minister, Hossein Amir Abdollahian, lashed out on Wednesday at Egypt for delaying its humanitarian aid to Palestinians in Gaza.

    “Egypt has not issued a permit for Iranian planes carrying aid to Gaza despite the fact that it is now a long time Tehran has asked for this,” Abdollahian told Iran’s Fars News Agency.

    Regarding wounded Palestinian children that need medical care, he said, “We expect Egypt to urgently fulfill its duties in this regard.”


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #178 - August 21, 2014, 12:50 PM

    No yeez, what he means is the worst Hamas could've done was a massacre, nothing more severe than 9/11, and there's no way a terrorist attack can be construed as a threat to the very existence of the state. Israelis have a tendency to grossly exaggerate the threat to them.

    The Egyptian blockade is just beyond cruel.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #179 - August 22, 2014, 09:43 AM

    No yeez, what he means is the worst Hamas could've done was a massacre, nothing more severe than 9/11, and there's no way a terrorist attack can be construed as a threat to the very existence of the state.

    well some may take this statement  
    Quote
    "Israel did not “face its first threat to its existence since the 1948 war” much like the U.S. did not face a threat to its existence on 9/11."

     as you understand but even then it is wrong Al-Alethia., Because with the exception of present Israeli govt and its friends, the world  is trying to look at Hamas as legitimate government of Gaza NOT a terrorist organization or groups of  small Islamic   terrorist thugs together.

    That statement itself starts with a false premise that Hamas is NOT an elected representatives of Gaza people  but a terrorist organization.  The other question is,  why a well equipped terrorist organization  is NOT a threat to a state?  In these modern times unless state is very strong  and the  terror group  do not have support from with in the state., A well organized and well funded well equipped terrorist  group can take the state away.. ISIS is a perfect example.
    Quote
    Israelis have a tendency to grossly exaggerate the threat to them.

     
    I guess you mean  present Israeli govt,   off course they do that and there are many reasons to do that and one of them could be  for winning elections
    Quote
    The Egyptian blockade is just beyond cruel.

    well that is because of Hamas fools and their connection with Egyptian brotherhood  and international politics + nexus of  Egypt-Israeli governments.

    Anyways today's news from  guardian.com says   we were behind the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers_A veteran Hamas official

    Quote
    A veteran Hamas official has said that the Islamist group was behind the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank – an incident that was a major trigger for the current brutal war in Gaza. Saleh al-Arouri, one of the founders of Hamas's military wing, made his comments at a conference in Istanbul, where he lives in exile. A tape of his comments was posted online by conference organisers.

    "There was much speculation about this operation; some said it was a conspiracy," al-Arouri said at a meeting of the International Union of Islamic Scholars on Wednesday.

    "The popular will was exercised throughout our occupied land, and culminated in the heroic operation by [Hamas's armed wing] the Qassam Brigades in imprisoning the three settlers in Hebron." His claim has not been supported by any other member of Hamas.

    It is the first time that any senior Hamas figure has linked the group to the abduction of Eyal Yifrah, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Frenkel, 16, whose kidnapping and murder led to a spiral of violence that gripped Israel and the West Bank and culminated in the current war in Gaza, which has so far left more than 2,000 Palestinians and 64 Israeli soldiers dead, as well as two Israeli civilians and a Thai migrant worker.

     and that is this guy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjPSRQco-8

    Saleh al-Arouri,  that is from 2010....   And Hamas is a Elected representatives of people of Gaza? By such actions of kidnapping and killing 16 year old kids they are proving again and again  these idiots are coupled to Islamic terror groups.

    What is the point of doing that?  It is not like Covert CIA or mossad operation such as taking on some Israeli high ranked officials ... 16 YEAR OLD KIDS??

    And what is the point of these tunnels?



    Idiots will never leave that Islamic mindset  It is bloody viral meme in the brain..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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