Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →
↑ ↓
CEMB → Forum → News and Events → International news and issues → Indian witch trials

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts

Qur'anic studies today
Today at 06:50 AM
Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM
Lights on the way
by akay
April 19, 2024, 04:40 PM
اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
April 19, 2024, 12:50 PM
Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 04:17 AM
What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM
New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM
Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM
عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM
Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM
Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM
Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Indian witch trials

 (Read 11724 times)
  • 12 3 ... 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Indian witch trials
     OP - July 28, 2014, 08:11 PM
    I hate to post this on Eid day but it's just completely shocking:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsNvDuNOqKk
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #1 - July 28, 2014, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on July 28, 2014, 08:11 PM
    I hate to post this on Eid day but it's just completely shocking:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsNvDuNOqKk

    No..no..noo.. what you do should be nothing to do with any festivals and any religions . Let me add more for this..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmZV371th3M

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imU1J7CndlQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orElQ6v1Af0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VCNy9zN-DE

    Stupid people .. stupid religions., all religions make   freaks out of evolved human beings..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #2 - July 28, 2014, 09:39 PM
    But guys, though I agree it seems pretty messed up, isn't it upto them to live according to the culture and religion that they choose? These 'witch trials' are clearly part of a larger culture, would you choose that they stop following that and live according to what you think is right?

    In that first post, all I can see are a couple of westerners trying to show how their culture is so superior to 'the other' by showing the most extreme cases. Just another type of cultural imperialism.

    This is no different to how Christians and Muslims forced so many people to convert, because they too believed they were right.


    " I will give this one proof among many from which it may be inferred that all men hold this belief about their customs. When Darius was king, he summoned the Greeks who were with him and asked them for what price they would eat their fathers' dead bodies. They answered that they wouldn’t do it for any amount of money.  Then Darius summoned those Indians who are called Callatiae, who eat their parents, and asked them (the Greeks being present and understanding through interpreters what was said) what would make them willing to burn their fathers at death. The Indians cried aloud, that he should not speak of so horrible an act. So firmly rooted are these beliefs; and it is, I think, rightly said in Pindar's poem that custom is king of all."

    Herodotus of Halicarnassus (a Greek polis in Asia Minor), excerpts from The Histories (ca. 430 BC)

  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #3 - July 28, 2014, 09:45 PM
    Huge, giant difference between your examples and the issue at hand which is people being murdered for a superstition. Yes, I would rather take "witchcraft" out of their culture if they can't handle keeping it there without slaughtering each other.
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #4 - July 28, 2014, 09:56 PM
    What she said.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #5 - July 28, 2014, 10:00 PM
    So if a group of people decide they want to live in a certain way that has no effect on you, you would still consider it acceptable to impose you standards on them if you coult, just because of something you saw thousands of miles away on TV?
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #6 - July 28, 2014, 10:01 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 09:39 PM
    But guys, though I agree it seems pretty messed up, isn't it upto them to live according to the culture and religion that they choose? These 'witch trials' are clearly part of a larger culture, would you choose that they stop following that and live according to what you think is right?

    Yes.. yes when it comes to killing people for those fucking superstitious religious rubbish and criminal activities..

    Yes..yes.....    I want them to live according to MY RULES  mr. mubs_352...  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #7 - July 28, 2014, 10:02 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:00 PM
    So if a group of people decide they want to live in a certain way that has no effect on you, you would still consider it acceptable to impose you standards on them if you coult, just because of something you saw thousands of miles away on TV?

    If their way involves them killing people who don't want to be killed, in other words them imposing their fucking standards on innocent people, then yes. In case you haven't noticed, killing people does have an effect on them.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #8 - July 28, 2014, 10:03 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:00 PM
    So if a group of people decide they want to live in a certain way that has no effect on you, you would still consider it acceptable to impose you standards on them if you coult, just because of something you saw thousands of miles away on TV?

    Killing people for superstitious religious  religious mambo jumbo has effect on people irrespective of how far they live from you mubs_
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #9 - July 28, 2014, 10:08 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:00 PM
    So if a group of people decide they want to live in a certain way that has no effect on you, you would still consider it acceptable to impose you standards on them if you coult, just because of something you saw thousands of miles away on TV?


    What are you even talking about? Do you think people who get executed for witchcraft (and, in some places, actually slaughtered to recover human components of "spells") are consenting individuals who are happy taking the bullet as long as it's for culture? Are you really going to place culture at a higher standing than human rights?

    Trying to suggest that a culture where people are oppressed/killed/mutilated/enslaved (whatever atrocity floats your boat) is one that should be respected just because the guys on top in that culture want it that way is a rookie mistake of someone who is trying so desperately hard to look like they're supporting the underdog and being tolerant that they have no appreciation of the people they are throwing under the bus. In this case, it's people who are being killed on suspicion of being witches. Culture is not an excuse.
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #10 - July 28, 2014, 10:10 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 09:39 PM
    Just another type of cultural imperialism.


    You're confusing way too much here. You're taking a constituent and parading it around as the whole. This particular aspect of the culture is BAT SHIT FUCKING CRAZY and has no place in civilised society, but that doesn't mean that the whole of the culture of that particular community should be replaced - just the fucked up bits. Just like your argument.

    You may pay me in kindness.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #11 - July 28, 2014, 10:12 PM
    Actually, seeing osmanthus here kind of reminds me of this vague memory I have of him somewhere on this forum wiping the floor with someone else on a similar issue (?), and if I'm not mistaken at some point he said something to the effect of wanting to see the other person explain to the victims of a culturally-approved human rights violation what exactly was more important to him than saving them.

    Osmanthus was way more eloquent about it, but I'd also like to see you try to explain to the victims of witchcraft precisely why you're more concerned with a cultural superstition lasting well into the modern age than saving them from a gruesome and undeserved end.
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #12 - July 28, 2014, 10:14 PM
    " Are you really going to place culture at a higher standing than human rights? "

    Human rights are a cultural construct (generally dont exist outside western culture) and require a culture with the PHYSICAL means to ENFORCE them. Human rights as defined in the West, do not exist outside the west, in these cultures people consider individuals subservient to family, clan or tribe.  

  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #13 - July 28, 2014, 10:15 PM
    Some people just prefer believing "oh the fucked up bits, is their business!" . Like seriously?
    We are leaving in the 21st century, let's make progress and learn from the past.


  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #14 - July 28, 2014, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:14 PM
    " Are you really going to place culture at a higher standing than human rights? "

    Human rights are a cultural construct (generally dont exist outside western culture) and require a culture with the PHYSICAL means to ENFORCE them. Human rights as defined in the West, do not exist outside the west, in these cultures people consider individuals subservient to family, clan or tribe.  


    When I say human rights, I'm doing it as a shorthand way of referring to a person's right of not being a slave, not being murdered, not being mutilated, not being raped. Is it your position that there are people who simply do not deserve such luxury?
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #15 - July 28, 2014, 10:19 PM
    Surely anyone who argues against such luxuries must perforce believe that they themselves are not entitled to them. We can therefore conclude that Mubs would be only too willing to submit himself to culturally-sanctioned murder.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #16 - July 28, 2014, 10:21 PM
    Exactly. Those folks live in the total ignorance. If they were educated enough, surely they would know the difference between fairy tales and facts.
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #17 - July 28, 2014, 10:22 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:14 PM
    ..................

    Human rights are a cultural construct ...............



     Noo., noooooooo.,  Human right are Human construct.. NOT cultural construct.,

     Take this word   "Cultural rights" .. call them "Cultural rights"  or cult rights or religious rights.. whatever  

    Don't use and abuse the word "human rights" .. I would not consider those who kill people for their belief/culture/cults  as "human beings.. NO HUMAN RIGHTS FOR THEM until unless they start thinking like human beings..   I am really angry Mr. mubs_352 ..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #18 - July 28, 2014, 10:25 PM
    Hey Mubs, thought experiment for you. Let's say you go to India for a holiday. Lots of people do. While you're there, it just so happens that some of the locals get it into their heads that you are a witch. In this situation would you:

    a/ be terribly culturally sensitive about it all, and adamant that you had no right to impose dastardly cultural imperialism on them, and therefore would happily acquiesce to whatever they had in mind for you, or

    b/ try to get the fuck out of there asap, and call your embassy, and generally behave like you wanted to stay alive?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #19 - July 28, 2014, 10:26 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:14 PM
    Human rights are a cultural construct (generally dont exist outside western culture) and require a culture with the PHYSICAL means to ENFORCE them. Human rights as defined in the West, do not exist outside the west, in these cultures people consider individuals subservient to family, clan or tribe.  


    Oh...so now we're discussing philosophy. Well, you discuss your philosophy whilst innocent women get killed.

    You think you're rather smart coming at it from a relativist angle Do you consider yourself a postmodernist?

    All cultural relativists champion the rights of various communities to implement their cultural practices, no matter how barbaric, that is until they are themselves subject to such practices. It is then that the appeal to cultural relativism shifts to objective human rights that each human being is entitled to irrespective of their race, religion or gender.

    Take a trip to India fool and interview the women and try to convince them why, in the name of culture, they should sacrifice their lives. Also, please explain to them how pain, suffering and death are all social constructs.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #20 - July 28, 2014, 10:26 PM
    No my point is this.

    You might be right in this case to intervene forcefully. However, you are now on a slippery slope and where do you draw the line? Superstitious killings go first but what next? Yezee and the guy in the video said all religions are bad, So that is stopped at some point.  Now you;re no different to Muslims who forcefully converted others, but hey its ok, cos its for their best (we BELIEVE)

    Hindus believe killing all animals is bad, so they would force us to stop meat-eating if they could. I suppose you consider Human life above animal life...sounds a lot like abrahamic thinking to me....
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #21 - July 28, 2014, 10:29 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on July 28, 2014, 10:25 PM
    Hey Mubs, thought experiment for you. Let's say you go to India for a holiday. Lots of people do. While you're there, it just so happens that some of the locals get it into their heads that you are a witch. In this situation would you:

    a/ be terribly culturally sensitive about it all, and adamant that you had no right to impose dastardly cultural imperialism on them, and therefore would happily acquiesce to whatever they had in mind for you, or

    b/ try to get the fuck out of there asap, and call your embassy, and generally behave like you wanted to stay alive?


    This is so not an argument as I said

    "So if a group of people decide they want to live in a certain way that has no effect on you"

    And this is an important qualifier

  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #22 - July 28, 2014, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:26 PM
    .............................
    Hindus believe killing all animals is bad, so they would force us to stop meat-eating if they could. I suppose you consider Human life above animal life...sounds a lot like abrahamic thinking to me....

    well that is all right.,  They must have the right to believe  "killing all animals is bad" But  I am sure you realize the difference between killing people and killing animals for food..

    Well I hope those hindus who force their religious mambo jumbo on others better first save human beings before they talk about saving animals
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #23 - July 28, 2014, 10:35 PM
    But yeezee,

    Why do you consider human life more valuable than animal life?
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #24 - July 28, 2014, 10:36 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:26 PM
    You might be right in this case to intervene forcefully. However, you are now on a slippery slope and where do you draw the line? Superstitious killings go first but what next? Yezee and the guy in the video said all religions are bad, So that is stopped at some point.  Now you;re no different to Muslims who forcefully converted others, but hey its ok, cos its for their best (we BELIEVE).


    Might be? Are you fucking nuts. I am right and so is everyone else but YOU who apparently sees little wrong in the deaths of these poor women simply because of silly vandettas justified by superstition.

    Do you justify or ignore the rape of those darling Indian girls simply because of their low caste or will you be imposing your supra-ideological apparatus on them?

    I have no patience for such intellectually redundant BS. Go and practise your primary school level ethics philosophy on someone else.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #25 - July 28, 2014, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: mubs_352 on July 28, 2014, 10:26 PM
    Superstitious killings go first but what next?


    The next bat shit crazy ideas that's what!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #26 - July 28, 2014, 10:39 PM
    You really can't figure out how to avoid tumbling ass-first all the way down the slope, mubs? Intervene on killings. Intervene on rape. Intervene on all that terrible stuff. And that's the end of it.

    Why is yeezevee's opinion on religion brought into this example? Did you appoint Yeezevee the ruler of India in this hypothetical situation? Are you aware that most people would also consider the right to believe whatever silly thing you want to believe a human right?

    If people ever start being forced into atheism, that is also persecution, and, luckily, under a fair system that recognizes the rights of the individual rather than the rights of whoever has the upper hand, they will be protected from that, too. I can believe killing animals is bad, and that's my right, and you could be next door in your house lined with more dead deer heads than all of my Kentucky cousins own combined, and that's your right, too. It'd be gross, but whatever, I can't kill you for it, unless your right to live is just a Western cultural construct I can ignore.
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #27 - July 28, 2014, 10:42 PM
    I suppose you can get a big-win here if you can tell where you would draw the line.

    I am waiting....
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #28 - July 28, 2014, 10:43 PM
    Or rather how you determine whats ok to forceably change and whats not?
  • Indian witch trials
     Reply #29 - July 28, 2014, 10:44 PM
    The fool probably doesn't realise that most of us are from a mixture of disparate communities/cultures and that we can all easily see how a certain way of life is far superior to others. ALso, HUMAN RIGHTS is not a Western construct. What tosh! Values do not belong to any single nation nor people. Most, if not all the major philosophical schools of thought, the world over cover the basic tenants of the UDHR.

    Read the book HUMAN UNIVERSALS by Daniel Brown.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • 12 3 ... 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »