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 Topic: Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines

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  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     OP - July 24, 2014, 05:25 PM

    Ramadan Kareem,

    I would like to begin by thanking this site. I stumbled across this site on my own spiritual journey and this site has cemented my faith in Islam. I haven’t written on a forum in years...we’re talking at the very least a decade. I was intrigued to read stories and learn of why you had become an apostate.
     I now want you to read why I submitted to Islam and through this discussion, the misconceptions shall be addressed. The order in which this discussion shall follow is:
    - Who I am  
    - My rights as a Muslimah ( education, money, inheritance)
    - Slavery/ concubines
    - Deficient in intelligence  
    - Disclaimer

    My parents are of Pakistani decent. I grew up in a home where the foundations of Islam were in place. My father is a comical genius and observes the 5 pillars of Islam. My mum strongly believes in Islam and has done her best to instil in us those virtues. We came in the order of 3 girls and 1 boy.  There was no favouritism, instead my parents nurtured our individual personalities to be the best we could be. The professions in my family generally are humanitarian ones which mainly are teaching and medicine. We’re a close knit family. Never has ‘culture’ disseminated our ideologies or been at the forefront of life. In all honesty, I don’t even own a shawar kameez (asian clothes)... never been my thing. I have completed my post graduate education from University College London and have had publications. Whilst studying my undergraduate degree, I had a strong urge to learn Arabic to understand the Quran so I was fortunate to spend a year in Egypt learning Fusha Arabic. It has helped me understand the complexities of language. I still to this day have not found a book so beautiful in form and meaning. I have also been fortunate to travel to over 30 counties before I’m 30! That should be a thread in itself. I have always been in love with religion and submission to it has meant my life has gone from strength to strength alhamduillah. I excelled prior to marriage and I’m married to a man who I would do anything for. I love him where there is no limit and thank Allah swt everyday for giving me my soul mate.  According to most people, we’re fortunate to live in the leafy suburbs, have good jobs, holiday twice a year, drive our dream car and be surrounded by love. These are blessings from Allah swt alhamduillah. God has given me a lot and I try to do the best I can to give back in all walks of life.
    My way of life refutes this picture you have painted of Muslim women. This idea I am oppressed. I am empowered and try to live by the 5 pillars of Islam. My life is anything but how you have depicted the norm for Muslim women. This leads to my second point.
     
    Women’s right
    Prior to advent of Islam, it was the norm for families to bury their daughters as they saw them as a liability. Islam abhorred this practice and banned pagan Arabs from doing such an odious sin. Islam speaks of the blessings of raising daughters:
    "Whoever has three daughters or sisters, or two daughters of two sisters, and lives along with them in a good manner, and has patience with them, and fears Allah with regard to them will enter Paradise." (Reported by Abu Dawud, Al-Tirmidhee and others)
    And in another Hadith: "They will be a shield for him from the Fire." (Reported by Ahmad and Ibn Maajah)
    And along with the Messenger’s(saw) honoring the daughters with his words, we find that he also gave us a living example in his own actions and behavior - for example,
    "One day he (s.a.w) led his Companions in Prayer whilst carrying Umaamah bint Zaynab(ra) when he made rukoo’ he would put her down, then when he stood, he would pick her up." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
    If you look at Islam you will see that Khadijah RA was a renowned business woman and Aisha RA is accountable for more hadiths on Islam than anyone else, a leading scholar for Muslims. She was more learned than most renowned scholars of today. These strong role models only affirm what the Quran says that education is compulsory on all mankind, yes that includes female. I’m sorry culture has dictated to you otherwise. I am educated and in a profession where I am blessed to continuously be learning. My academic pursuits have been encouraged by all the Muslims around me.
    Money – Islam gives me the right to keep my own money. Anything I earn is mine. I am not expected to give my money to my husband. He is not accountable for what I do with it. I can choose to spend on the house, others, myself, zakaat, bills, holidays etc it’s my prerogative as it was Khadija’s. Islam is prescriptive and has made expectations clear. I embrace it.  I have the ‘choice’ to do what I want with my money.

    Oh no bring out the sexist card now. Let’s look at logic here. I am a strong woman, inshAllah at points in my life I will become a mother where my priority will be my child. I might not be fortunate to live in a place where there is extended maternity leave or I may want to spend an extended amount of time with my child...who knows. During that time, I will be dependent on my husband financially. I do not want to claim state benefits or go on welfare. I will expect him to have sole responsibility of the maintenance of myself and my child during those testing times.

    It is when a baby arrives that even atheists whether you like it or not revert to traditional gender norms. Man being the provider and protector whereas a woman prepares for delivery, has a child, primarily nurtures and breast feeds the child. Yes, even Kim Kardashian took extended leave from the spotlight to be a mum o_O.  I am a professional and it is only  through work where I appreciated the freedom Islam had given me with regard to money. I work because I want to not because I have to. My money is mine to do what I want with it.  I am surrounded by women who avoid getting pregnant or have aborted the child primarily due to finances. As a colleague said to me, ‘I can’t afford to get pregnant as how will my partner manage the mortgage repayments without my salary...and even child care after that.’ My response was simple, ‘you should have lived within his means from the get go’.  I love knowing that if I get pregnant I will be looked after inshAllah.

    I get to keep my money and as a ‘female’ get a share of the inheritance? Despite male relatives being accountable for the upkeep of women, I get wealth for myself too? I’ll still have a male relative who has been left inheritance using his share to provide for my clothes, food a roof over my head and I will get my own share of inheritance too.  It doesn’t get fairer than that. The beauty of Islam, it gives everyone including extended family a percentage and claim to inheritance too = )
     I do not fight gender norms. I might work out but heck I know I can be easily overpowered by a man. Look at stats of rape and abuse to women and you will find a common denominator the perpetrator is generally a man. I’m a strong female but not a stupid one. I need a man to protect me. When I’m out late, I feel safe knowing there is a man by my side. I also feel safe knowing my husband is there with me when we’re travelling to remote destinations. My father and brother are there for my sisters supporting and protecting them in certain situations. Heck I guess it would be okay if I paid a bodyguard to do it as oppose to having a loved one look after me? O_O

    I would be considered liberated if I had it all on show for the world to ogle, use celebrities as a bench mark to compare me against. But no, I am oppressed because I choose to cover myself and only want my husband to appreciate my feminine physique as oppose to everyone with eyes? I’m being selfish denying men the right to see me in all my glory. How selfish of me! Women are liberated hey?
    My life contradicts how you have claimed women’s rights are for Muslim. I have the right to education, career, financial stability, protection, inheritance, love and yet you claim my religion states I have none? Islam has empowered me and has given me opportunity after opportunity alhamduillah. I cannot thank my Lord enough for the blessings. For me, praying and abstaining from immoral unsafe acts is an extremely small token of appreciation that I can show my Lord. I wish I could do more and inshAllah I will.
     You chose to separate yourselves from Islam. You will have to suffer the wrath of it. Your mouths may lie but your heart’s regret and fear speaks otherwise.

    Slavery

    Since time immemorial, slavery was an accepted practice; thus it was not Islam that started this practice, but rather Islam was the first system to inculcate the freedom of slaves and take steps to make them equal citizens of society. Slavery was abolished in modern society only a couple of centuries ago, and was openly practiced in almost all parts of the civilized world even until the early 1900s. But Islam made it a virtue to free slaves, and inculcate them into society as equal citizens, almost 1500 years ago.
    The Quran promoted the freeing of a slave.  War is not a bed of roses, it is a place where massacres happen. You only need to look at the current situation in Gaza and Israel to see the atrocities. We do not live in a utopian state where war does not happen. Consider all the main world wars in history led by respected countries. How are prisoners of war treated across the globe? Forget war, how are enemies of a civilisation treated? Guantanamo Bay is a prime example of how alleged enemies to a civilisation are treated. Unfortunately, war was a reality of the prophet’s time as it has been a reality from the start of time till recent times and will continue to be. Islam is a way of life and if peace treaties are violated and war is declared then yes Muslims are instructed to fight back.
    Islam did keep prisoners of war as slaves. There weren’t any prisons in place and I for one credit the prophet pbuh for not creating his own Guantanamo Bay torturing ground. Instead they were taken as slaves and assimilated into families. Now let’s consider how Israel would treat Palestinian victims of war. The thought sends shudders through your body right? How were slaves from the colonised period treated? Now let’s examine Islam’s treatment of slaves:
    Islam Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.

    Source: Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124
    • Jabir ibn 'Abdullah said, "The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, advised that slaves should be well-treated. He said, 'Feed them from what you eat and clothe them from what you wear. Do not punish what Allah has created.' "

    Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 188.

    • Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."

    Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

    • Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The slave has his food and clothing. Do not burden a slave with work which he is incapable of doing."
    Oh wait, so the enemy of a civilisation is treated as a brother? Furthermore, slaves had  their own rights. The overall goal of Islam was to abolish slavery that had become an ingrained part of the Arabs way of life prior to Islam. Islam’s instructions to mankind was to abolish slavery by emancipating them as the Quran states,  
    Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in God, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveller, the beggars, and to free the slaves... [2:177]
     
    The charities are to go to the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the traveller. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise. [9:60]


    Concubines:

    Genghis Khan is a prime example of a man who had no regard for prisoners of war where he promoted the massacre and rampant raping of millions.
    Let’s explore how females are treated during war scenarios. They’re gang raped by soldiers, often their loved ones including children are killed in front of them, they’re left with their protectors dead. They are left homeless, open to attack by others and forced into a life of poverty, prostitution, crime to survive or to aid the survival of their children.
    It is a fact that women from war were taken as concubines. The men could not gang/ rape them and/or abandon them. Female prisoners of war were brought back to the state, they had a waiting period, then distributed among households. Only one male, their owner could have sex with them. The concubines were made members of a home and treated like a wife. The children of the concubine had the same rights as a legitimate child. They were given the same provisions. Islam promoted the emancipation of slaves and /or the marriage to them.
    A concubines sustainer would have to feed her, clothe her, provide housing for her and take care of the children. Islam did not advocate to gang rape them, leave them in dire poverty open to further attacks.
    Yes, Allah swt recognised that the women probably would not want to have sex with their sustainer and hence the verse was revealed.
     "And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

    We clearly see that if the slave woman desires to keep chaste, then her Muslim master must not compel her into sex with himself. It might sound odd to us today, but pagans back then were used to having sex with and raping their slave girls.
    Islam’s ultimate aim was to emancipate slaves. It also aimed to give them as much protection and rights as it could despite them being part of civilisation that were an enemy. I look at the asymmetry treatment of victims of war by other civilisations and am left open mouthed at the mercy shown in Islam. I mean look at the situation in Palestine right now? They’ve a blockade on them, the death toll is rising, border gates are closed to them, they are expected to die...children have been reported as being primarily killed in this war. Where is the justice? I see super powers backing Israel’s need to defend itself...ughh getting off plot now but if you make a like for like comparison at how the modern world deals with victims of war/ slavery during colonial times and how Islam instructed the treatment to be, you’d know Islam has been humane.

    Regarding females being deficient in intelligence  
    NHS site is my source, a research conducted by University of Oxford and Cambridge researchers = all non Muslims.
    Findings
    “Men really do have bigger brains,” reports the Daily Mail, going on to report that new research reveals “male and female brains are wired differently” with particularly big differences in the areas that control language and emotion.
    It is well established that males and females have different predispositions towards developing different mental health conditions. For example, conditions such as autism spectrum disorder and dyslexia are more common in men, while depression and anxiety are more common in women. New research has pooled the results of 126 studies examining the differences in brain size between men and women to see if structural differences are part of the explanation.
    It found that on average men had larger overall brain volumes than women. They also found differences between men and women in the volume of many different regions. These included regions previously associated with different mental health conditions. For example, men tended to have larger volumes in brain regions associated with survival instincts, memory and learning, while women tended to have larger volumes in areas of the brain dealing with language and emotions.
    copy and paste to find web link to it as it states I'm not allowed to post links.

    Disclaimer
    I advise people to read Dr Zakir Naik’s responses to science and Quran, it is in line with modern science.  I read your views and voiced mine. I know that we will not be friends. You have declared yourself murtuds and I declare myself a Muslim. The Quran surahs that often are taken out of context that deal with fighting, you will see once you research context that they are fair and just. I hope I have got you pondering over Islam again. Do research extensively from reliable sources on areas that you have limited knowledge on.
    I pray that Allah swt provides you all your wishes in this world and takes mercy on you in the afterlife.

    Any believer who comes onto this site feels the darkness and decadence. It has definitely cemented my faith in Allah swt and increased my faith, for that thank you. I feel something I have never felt before- a strong yearning to leave. I will not be logging back to this site.  I have made my points and have nothing further to say.
    Peace to all
    Asalamu alaykom.  
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #1 - July 24, 2014, 05:29 PM

    Good for you.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #2 - July 24, 2014, 05:30 PM

    Brb, going to smoke some weed & then read this.


    W'salaam.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #3 - July 24, 2014, 05:39 PM

    Welcome to the forum. Thanks for writing your views in a friendly and polite manner.

    Unfortunately what you write is difficult to take seriously. To pluck just one thing out at random:

    I advise people to read Dr Zakir Naik’s responses to science and Quran, it is in line with modern science.


    This is not possible to take seriously. Zakir Naik is a liar and a fraud, and his commentary on science and the Quran is absurd dawah propaganda and nonsense.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #4 - July 24, 2014, 05:45 PM

    Assalamu alaikum sister, ramadan kareem to you as well, though honestly I don't know how you do it with 18 hour days and the heat we've been having lately (from your use of the spelling "mum" I'm assuming you're in the UK?).

    Welcome to the forum. parrot

    Zakir Naik is a laughing stock and if I were a muslim he would embarrass me. Outright liar and bigot. I'm a little uncomfortable with the notion right off the bat that someone couldn't be friends for the sole reason of believing or not believing in a particular god and a particular religion. Some of the closest friends I've had in my life have been religious, it's never been an issue.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #5 - July 24, 2014, 05:49 PM

    Quote
    Prior to advent of Islam, it was the norm for...


    we arent that fussed about whether or not islam is an improvement on standards 1400 years ago.
    Today, we dont consider women inferior to men, and you do.
    You have been empowered to accept subordinate status. That isn't what most people would call empowerment.

    Quote
    If you look at Islam you will see that Khadijah RA was a renowned business woman


    yeah, before Islam. Perhaps it wasnt so bad afterall.

    Quote
    and Aisha RA is accountable for more hadiths on Islam than anyone else... These strong role models only affirm what the Quran says that education is compulsory on all mankind, yes that includes female.


    education in islam is compulsory. You must learn the deen. This is not really the same thing as education in general.

    To be honest, i'm not even fussed whether Islam is an improvement on today. Im not a muslim because there is no evidence that islam is true. It doesn't matter how nice and progressive Islam is or isn't.

    you cant call the things you mention 'misconceptions'. It isnt that we are simply ignorant of 'the truth' We already know the apologetic arguments. We just dont buy them.  We know about Zakir Naik too. Some of us debunk him and other apologists for sport. We know about the ludicrous claims of the egg shaped earth, and all the rest. We are not people with misconceptions. We are people with different conclusions than you.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #6 - July 24, 2014, 06:18 PM

    Prior to advent of Islam, it was the norm for...


    Muslims paint this picture as a way to make Islam seem relatively progressive. But there is no historical veracity for it, it is only referencing a minor society at a certain time, plus there is lots of evidence that Islam actually took women backwards even in that society.

    Underlying this claim is also some breathtaking arrogance - that humankind had no ethical capacity for improvement before and since Islam. This is supremacist nonsense, and wrong, and an insult to humanity.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #7 - July 24, 2014, 06:24 PM

    Ancient Egyptian women had way more power than Islam gave women.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #8 - July 24, 2014, 06:26 PM

    Viking women had more power and rights than some Muslim women have today




    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #9 - July 24, 2014, 06:28 PM

    Welcome  parrot

    It's good that you enjoy your religion and yes many woman are not oppressed.

    Have you ever looked into the science of the quraan properly, or Science in general?

    Also what is your view on the beautiful verses of hell and the tortures described in the quraan?

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #10 - July 24, 2014, 07:37 PM

    I genuinely hope she does come back as I'd enjoy exploring the points she raised in more depth.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #11 - July 24, 2014, 08:03 PM

    Ramadan Kareem. Glad we could be of service in cementing your faith and thanks for listening.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #12 - July 24, 2014, 08:40 PM

    Such a shame she won't be back. In contrast to the other two goofball sort-of-Muslims we've had recently, this one can actually write coherent sentences.

    I wonder how she managed to travel to 30 countries before she was 30. With or without mahram, that's the question.


    The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #13 - July 24, 2014, 08:42 PM

    Welcome home. Wait a minute...

    Islam empowered you as a woman? Finally, someone who is going to tell us men, and those STUPID IGNORANT EX-MUSLIMAS, on this forum what Islam is REALLY about. Because these ex-Muslimas on this site have been spreading bad publicity about Islam. Some claim that Islam allowed for their husbands to physically abuse them and rape them, others claim that they found the restrictions placed on them to be insufferable and let's not mention the ninja dress they were compelled to wear.

    Come, Muslim_yay, tell us why these ISLAMAPHOBES on these forums masquerading as rational, intelligent women who claim to have made an academic decision to leave Islam far behind them are wrong and are deliberately misleading the rest of us.

    My unicorn awaits theeeeeeee!!!



    I'll be Baraq

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #14 - July 24, 2014, 08:43 PM

    Hello and goodbye. I'm afraid besides the more technical flaws with your argument (inaccuracies and cherry picking), you've also mistaken your luck for the rules of the game.

    Quote
    My way of life refutes this picture you have painted of Muslim women.  [...] My life contradicts how you have claimed women’s rights are for Muslim. I have the right to education, career, financial stability, protection, inheritance, love and yet you claim my religion states I have none?


    Your sheer dumb luck in life is not evidence. There are Muslim women in unimaginably terrible conditions, just as there are atheist women who have it better than you. I feel for you if you came from such a terrible place that you did not have these basic human rights before you submitted to Islam. But I have a feeling you didn't.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #15 - July 24, 2014, 08:57 PM

    My way of life refutes this picture you have painted of Muslim women.  [...] My life contradicts how you have claimed women’s rights are for Muslim. I have the right to education, career, financial stability, protection, inheritance, love and yet you claim my religion states I have none?



    If you live in a liberal secular democracy you have these rights because of liberalism, secularism and democracy, laws made by men and women. Not because of Islam.

    Rights are not Islam's to give to anyone. Rights are not hand outs from Islam. People are born with rights in a society and those rights emanate from us, humans, people and the choices we made as a society after long fights against the reactionary forces over centuries.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #16 - July 24, 2014, 09:00 PM

    If you live in a liberal secular democracy you have these rights because of liberalism, secularism and democracy, laws made by men and women. Not because of Islam.

    Rights are not Islam's to give to anyone. Rights are not hand outs from Islam. People are born with rights in a society and those rights emanate from us, humans, people and the choices we made as a society after long fights against the reactionary forces over centuries.



    Hear, hear!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #17 - July 24, 2014, 09:02 PM

    Welcome home. Wait a minute...

    Islam empowered you as a woman? Finally, someone who is going to tell us men, and those STUPID IGNORANT EX-MUSLIMAS, on this forum what Islam is REALLY about. Because these ex-Muslimas on this site have been spreading bad publicity about Islam. Some claim that Islam allowed for their husbands to physically abuse them and rape them, others claim that they found the restrictions placed on them to be insufferable and let's not mention the ninja dress they were compelled to wear.

    Come, Muslim_yay, tell us why these ISLAMAPHOBES on these forums masquerading as rational, intelligent women who claim to have made an academic decision to leave Islam far behind them are wrong and are deliberately misleading the rest of us.

    My unicorn awaits theeeeeeee!!!

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    I'll be Baraq


    I'm going to nominate you for jester of the month in the next election.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #18 - July 24, 2014, 09:12 PM

    Your sheer dumb luck in life is not evidence.


     Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy

    Oh my fracking God this is one of the single greatest replies I've read in a long time.

    And Quod!  Afro

    Right Baraq at ya

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #19 - July 24, 2014, 09:20 PM

    Yeah, it's all nice and rosy being a Muslimah when you live in the west but what about those poor souls who live in places like Afghanistan where child marriage is rampant and women are treated like donkeys because they believe that is the Islamic way.

    Also, the size of the brain has NOTHING to do with one's intelligence. What a fallacious argument!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #20 - July 24, 2014, 09:25 PM

    Islam empowered me, too. The option of 70+ virgins, the chance to lock my womenfolk indoors and the right to as many female sex slaves as I ever wanted. Oh, and never having to see my womenfolk again in the afterlife. Cos that'd totally, like, harsh my buzz, man.

    It's a miracle I ever gave it all up, really.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #21 - July 24, 2014, 09:31 PM

    Regarding females being deficient in intelligence  
    NHS site is my source, a research conducted by University of Oxford and Cambridge researchers = all non Muslims.
    Findings
    “Men really do have bigger brains,” reports the Daily Mail, going on to report that new research reveals “male and female brains are wired differently” with particularly big differences in the areas that control language and emotion.


    Hmmm...all the female MODS should resign their posts immediately as scientific consensus courtesy of the DAILY MAIL has been achieved.

    Maybe I was born female? Quick question, since you are a female it must mean that you are HALF as intelligent as I am. You believe in Allah. I am a man, wink  Wink wink, and I do not believe in Allah. Therefore, I am right and you are wrong because I am a man and I am twice as intelligent as you.

    Muslima_yay...you sound like good marriage material. I know you will be reading this because a criminal always comes back to the scene of the crime.

    I LOVE YOU

    RIDE my unicorn...but only if you're of a consenting age and FULLY MATURE as defined by civilised standards and not Islamic. Non of that it's permissable to marry a 9 year old if she knows her Deen rubbish please.



    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #22 - July 24, 2014, 09:36 PM

    Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy  Afro  Cheesy

    Oh my fracking God this is one of the single greatest replies I've read in a long time.


    Oh, my. Too kind of you!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #23 - July 24, 2014, 09:41 PM

    Quick question, since you are a female it must mean that you are HALF as intelligent as I am. You believe in Allah. I am a man, wink  Wink wink, and I do not believe in Allah. Therefore, I am right and you are wrong because I am a man and I am twice as intelligent as you.

    Logically this seems sound.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #24 - July 24, 2014, 09:46 PM

    As I posted before for any outsider looking in here.

    In Ancient Egypt as well during the time of the Pharaohs the laws pertaining to women were strikingly similar to the laws and rights Islam gave women that are lauded by Muslims and pro-Islam individuals.

    http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/623/

    Even seem to have had more rights than Islam afforded.

    I know it precedes Islam by a fair whack. The ideas were not new however.

  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #25 - July 24, 2014, 09:54 PM

    Islam empowered me, too. The option of 70+ virgins, the chance to lock my womenfolk indoors and the right to as many female sex slaves as I ever wanted. Oh, and never having to see my womenfolk again in the afterlife. Cos that'd totally, like, harsh my buzz, man.

    It's a miracle I ever gave it all up, really.


    That should wrap it up, I'm not sure how someone can argue with that bottom line. Fortunately for the OP, she preemptively absolved herself from having to answer any tough questions.
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #26 - July 24, 2014, 09:56 PM

    Well, any believer who comes onto this site feels the darkness and decadence, apparently.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #27 - July 24, 2014, 09:58 PM



    Concubines:

    Genghis Khan is a prime example of a man who had no regard for prisoners of war where he promoted the massacre and rampant raping of millions.



    Having taught about Genghis Khan I can tell you that you are wrong in that you have posited your statements in an absolute fashion therefore renedering it factually invalid.

    Genghis Khan treated some if not most (throughout his lifetime) of his prisoners of war well. After taking over various towns and cities he treated the POWs kindly providing they worked for him/assimilated into his army. For example, he used Chinese engineers to create siege weapons and after the conquest of Beijing in 1215(?) he appointed some of them to high ranking roles.

    Of course he was a savage and barbarian by modern accounts and even then if the Mongol, Chinese and Persian accounts are anything to go by. But he was a man of learning and taught his men to write, nay he commanded it, so that his legacy would be immortalised. He created a primitve legal system, encouraged the arts and medicine and post-Beijing conquest expanded much of the Mongol empire via trade. This all changed when the Persians returned the Mongol ambassador to him sans his head. Then the shit hit the fan and the blood flowed.

    I have powerpoint if you want it.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #28 - July 24, 2014, 10:00 PM

    Well, any believer who comes onto this site feels the darkness and decadence, apparently.


    CEMB is dark and full of terrors.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Us8d5cKoE

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Islam empowered me! women/ slavery/ concubines
     Reply #29 - July 24, 2014, 10:13 PM

    I will not be logging back to this site.  I have made my points and have nothing further to say.


    Since you don't have the strength of belief to back up your claims and have a debate/discussion about them, it's obvious that you are rather insecure about your claims. Have a nice life. Your post has further cemented my apostasy from Islam.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
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