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Theme Changer

 Topic: hello from Holland!

 (Read 13349 times)
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  • hello from Holland!
     OP - July 11, 2014, 11:52 PM

    Hello
    By searching for information i discovered this site. And im so glad i found it. I would like to share my story with you. My name is Shirly  and im from Holland.

    About a year ago i met a beautiful person.  A Muslim boy. We fell in love. I had no religion and that scared him. Cause that would give me a place in Hell. And he started to tell  me about Islam, about Prophet Mohammed and about Koran. He told me beautiful stories but also scared me with his stories about Hell, were Kafirs would end. And that's what i was in his eyes, a Kafir. A girl without any religion. And the way he talked about kafirs made me always  feel ashamed that i was one.
    I listened to his stories for houres and i started reading about Islam. I let myself lead by the beautiful things he told me about Islam. I heard about here-after and what Allah promised his faithfull believers. I bought a Koran and together with him we started to study ayats and he learned me prayers. Every day  he prayed for my Hidaya. But i felt nothing. I felt no light in my heart, i felt no presence of a God.  Was there something wrong with me? And deep down inside i felt not right. I didnt recognize myself anymore. Me, a strong independend girl, was willing to accept everything as the truth. Without any proof or any evidence! You might say that loves makes blind. Were was my own opinion, my own thoughts about things!


    I started reading so much about Islam. I read Koran, i read hadiths, i read Prophet stories. But i started to read critical articles too about Islam. Cause  thats was my freedom which i had.  The freedom to read, to question and to form an opinion about the things that i read. But when i mentioned that to him , there was no discusion possible. He ordered me to read only the good things cause the bad articles and websites came from Satan who was trying to mislead me. But i kept reading, secretly. Cause i couldnt base my choice on just having Trust and Faith. I needed proof, i needed more information to be certain i made the right choice.
     
    And the more i read the more i had questions about the peace in Islam. And about the freedom of opinion.
    When your born as Muslim your whole future is planned. There are rules for everything, from the cradle till the grave your life is based on rules. But were is the room to question this rules, to think with your own mind 'is this good for me'?  'Is this the way i want to spent my life'? And i discovered: There's no room for thinking out of the box. No opportunity to  form an opion of your own about this rules and this way of living. Its the truth and you just must accept it. But i couldn't. I Had so much questions! About the role of the women.  About the fact men seemed to have more rights than women, in this life, but also im here-after life. And why must women cover there hairs while men can walk around uncovered? Why married Prophet Mohammed a child? Why are some, earlier revealed ayats, later replaced for others?  If Allah knows the Truth and is All-Knows, than whats the use of replacing ayats?   But when i asked my boyfriend  all this questions he got irritated and the only answer was: Its the will of Allah or Prophet told us. No discussion was possible, i just had to accept the facts: " Its an order from God which we must obey."

     For me it feels like being a Muslim is like being a prisoner of your own religion. What about a religion of peace when almost everything is based on fear?  Fear of punishment, fear of Hellfire on the Day of Judgement.
    Were's the opportunity to ask questions about your religion in all freedom?  When you have the slightest doubt, theres a threat with punishment. So even if people would like  to discuss it, they will think twice before they do. Al out of fear for Allah's reward on the Day of Judgement.  For me that realy doesn't feel as a peacefull God. Threat from Allah, threat from family, threat from enviroment.  There's a punishment for everything. How can people live in freedom while  from the moment your born till the day  you die, you have not even a choice to have a free will. Cause everthing is already made up for you.

    Yes,  i know its said that people have a free will and can do what they want or choose, cause we are all responsible for our own deeds. My boyfriend told me that so often.  But it was always followed by the words: Remember the All-Known. Thats no freedom of choice . Thats like saying to a child: yes you can take a cookie, but if you take it your mum will certainly find out. You think the child will take that cookie? He will leave it, out of fear. With one hand Islam offerse you a candy, but in the other hand it's holding the sword, ready to punish those who critize it or who wants to leave the religion.

    And when i read ayats and read hadiths i read many beautifull things, i can't deny that.  But i read about violence to. Violence against those who think different. Everyone who questions about the One-ness of Allah, must be punished. Cause Koran, and thus Allah, gives you that right. I see Prophet saying it in hadiths, i see it in ayats.

    Why is it that muslim people can abuse and criticize every other religion, every person who thinks or believes different, or every person who doesnt believe at all? What gives them that right? Its Allah who gives them that right in Koran and Prophet Muhammed in his hadiths.  Christians, Jews, Kafirs and gays, they will all burn in Hell according to Islam. Is that a religion of Peace? There's only peace and loyalty for their own brothers and sisters, but for those who wont follow the rules of Allah there's only violence, abuse and punishment.

    And everything is justified cause Allah said so and Prophet told us.  But does that mean it's good? Does that mean you can't have questions by it?
     They cant see the difference in  discussing a religion and abusing a religion. Every discussion is seen as an insult to Islam. Can't they see that when people open theirselves, there would be more room for communication? And keeping the doors closed leads only to more distance  and creates more hate among people. And when you pass that way of thinking over from generation to generation, there will never be a change in the world,  and hate about those who dont believe in Allah will only gets bigger. A normal dialog is not possible. If people were willing to listen  to eachother without judging, if people can make compromises and accept each others believe and way of thinking,  there would never be so much anger and  fights in the world. But muslims dont even think about  discusing  there religion. It's the truth. It's a kind of superiour way of thinking.
    If you cant even discuss ayats or hadiths, but must take everything for true, then were does that leave you? I know for sure many muslims have their own opinions about things, but they just cant express because of the threats that hanging above their heads. What a freedom.What a peace.What a respect for the uniqueness of a person.

    Its a two faced religion. One of peace but only for those who obey. And one of cruelty and violence for those who have the nerves to critize and not following it blindly.
    Cause when your question it there are two standard answers: ' thats the will of Allah '. Or: ' Your going astray, thats Satan taking possesion of your mind and try to lead you from the right path'.

    Am i going astray when i wear a dress just over my knee? When i shake the hand of a man because its his birthday? When i drink coffee with the man who repaired my refrigerator and  who worked hard to repair it?
    Thats part of my culture and its the freedom i have. And yes im responsible for my own deeds. And i think im clever enough to seperate right from wrong. I dont need a Prophet or Allah to show me that. I make my own choices based on common sense and  based on the way i was raised. You dont need Islam to become a good person.You need a solid background with people who raised you well and made you into an independ strong person with a mind of your own. And religion can be beautiful. It can teach you valuable things.  But it must be a part of your  raising, a part of you.  We are all  humans, all equal and all unique one by one. But Islam doesnt give people the change to develop themselves in the way  they want. It decides who they  must be.  

    We broke up, me and my boyfriend. But I still love him cause he has a beautifull loyal hart. He's the love of my life. But we dont have a future. What future you have when you cant share your deepest doubts with the one you love so much. What's love when you can accept and respect his religion although its not your way of living, while he's not allowed to accept the way you live. I know he loves me with whole his heart, but his religion doesnt allow it and his fear for Allah is big.

    It can make me so angry that a religion can have this effect on people. I don't see the peace in it, im sorry. Where there's fear, there can't be peace .
    We should all be precious to each other and  must try to find value in those who think different. For me that's a good base for peace.
    I Miss him with whole my heart. But my heart just can't accept that Islam is the one and only truth.

    Excuse my English. Im Dutch from origin
     






     

     

    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #1 - July 12, 2014, 12:05 AM

    Your English is fine. Welcome to CEMB. parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #2 - July 12, 2014, 12:34 AM

    Hi! Welcome to the forum, fellow Dutchie over here.  parrot

    I'm just glad you got out before you converted!

    The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #3 - July 12, 2014, 12:36 AM

    hey welcome to the forum  Afro

    Quote
    And the way he talked about kafirs made me always feel ashamed that i was one.


    You're not a kaffir, you are you, a unique and dignified individual with dignity and worth. Islam needs to revise itself to stop dehumanising people.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #4 - July 12, 2014, 12:52 AM

    Fantastic post, Mevrouw Doubts.

    Even though I have the attention span of a goldfish, I was gripped to the very end.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #5 - July 12, 2014, 02:15 AM

    Excellent introduction Shirly.
    You come across as being wise beyond your years.

    Yes, the religion is very 'schizophrenic'; beautiful stories on one hand with words like mercy and peace, and then a dose of burning flesh upon flesh in the unearthly heat of hell. Is it any wonder that many muslims have mild forms of 'schizophrenic' related behavior.

    Muslims, can't discuss all the obvious faults in the religion because doing so would have to lead to revising it. Even in the early days of the Arab empire there were signs of different groups trying to steer the religion in different ways. Unfortunately, we seem to have ended up with probably the worst form of the religion. And then, they even managed to find a whole load of hadiths warning about changing or revising the religion.

  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #6 - July 12, 2014, 03:10 AM

    Welcome!  Its not love if you can be cast away for some 5th century ideology.  You're a living breathing human being, his loss.   Chin up there are plenty of fish in the sea, who are openminded and decent like you

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #7 - July 12, 2014, 09:54 AM

    Thank you so much for this warm welcome!  It feels so good to  discover that there are people who can read your story without judging.

    That' s another thing i always heared, that so many people, all over the world,.converted into Islam. But when i asked abot the otherway around, it kept silence. So i searched for myself, and here i found my answer. They excist!

    Greets from a warm Holland.
    It's a nice day for a summerdress.  Hihihi

    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #8 - July 12, 2014, 10:23 AM

    Honey, your story struck my heart. I was "born" as muslim and I had questions like you do too. I asked my religious muslim family this exact questions and I got the same replies as your ex-bf. Honestly, it saddens me that people that I love and care so much, despite their imperfection, dare to criticize me for thinking too much or just the fact that I'm very curious to everything that is happening now, in the past or even in the future.

    You're lucky enough that you took a detour and didn't go to that "prison", because if not, it is really hard to get out.

    edit: forgot to put a welcome parrot for you Smiley  parrot  Kiss
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #9 - July 12, 2014, 10:55 AM

    Welcome home doubts132. You are amongst your own. Please take a seat and put your feet up.

    You might say that loves makes blind.


    Love can set you free. Depends on what you love though. If you love truth and truly seek it then you shall be free. Come doubts132, come on a journey with me and have the ride of your life.


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #10 - July 12, 2014, 11:13 AM

    Welcome honey  far away hug

    Your story is truly touching, and I feel for you...

    Be glad you have such a strong personality and beautiful heart.

    Like one of the members mentioned on this forum before, love comes many times in life.  I am sure you will find someone truly compatible.

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #11 - July 12, 2014, 11:32 AM

    Welcome Smiley i'm happy for you that you were wise enough not to convert. That you DID read negative stuff too.
    One day you'll meet someone worthy of your love, honey.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #12 - July 12, 2014, 11:42 AM

    Jedi, I accept the ride. Up to freedom and to love without boundaries and restrictions.
    Yep Confusdagno, my time will come. And i know theres a reason behind everything. This situation also made me stronger and learned me a lot. It made me realise that  im a valuable person.  And that, no matter what choices i make in life, i can always say "those were my own choices and they are good".


    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #13 - July 12, 2014, 11:45 AM

    Tbh, I am quite into this girl overseas. She is non-religious and when I met her I was Muslim though quite liberal. I realised that if I were to get with her I'd have to convert her and stop her from drinking and clubbing. Turns out she is the sweetest and kindest person I have ever talked to. So, I just opened my mind and said "Screw religion". Also, now I dont have to worry about converting lovers and worrying about friends burning in hell.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #14 - July 12, 2014, 01:15 PM

    Than your a wise guy who looks beyond his religion. And she's a lucky girl to have someone like you. I wish you both all the happiness in the world!!!


    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #15 - July 12, 2014, 01:37 PM

    Welcome Shirly  parrot

    Don't worry about love and relationships, you'll have the rest of your life for that, free from any religious restrictions.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #16 - July 13, 2014, 05:02 AM

    Welcome btw.

    Also, if a guy loves you he wont try to convert you.

    Like, I might love that girl because it led me to just forgetting about religion. I'd rather be with a lovely person than be a mumin or whatever.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #17 - July 13, 2014, 08:02 AM

    Thank you for your welcome and your reply.
    I realy think it's not that easy for some Muslim people. I read your story. You have the luck to have a tolerant family. With tolerant people around you there's an opportunity to discuss things. But what if you are not surrounded by open minded people?. What if your whole life,  day after day, is based on Allah's laws? Praying 5 times a day, asking forgivness for every wrong you might have done according to Allah, praying when you step into the toilet cause there might be Jinns, pray when you step out of the toilet, Alhamdulillah whole day long for every step you take, Inshallah for everything cause nothing happens without the will of Allah. If your truely believe that this is the one and only truth, when you have fear for every wrong step you might make, than realy it's not that easy to take the step of leaving Islam. Cause you believe in it, so why leave something you believe in? And when your scared to have even  one bad thought about Allah,  cause you are convinced that  Allah sees your heart, than there's no way you can easily break out of this prison.
    So than you try to convert the one you love, cause for you that's the only way to be together.

    It's a brainwashing religion. It's a religion who playes with peoples feelings by saying: you have the right to take your own decissions. But what's to decide when your  fear for Allah's judgement overrules your whole being.
    A religion shouldn't make a slave of people. A religion should contribute to peoples growing .




    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #18 - July 13, 2014, 10:33 AM

    Lovely intro, welcome!
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #19 - July 13, 2014, 01:32 PM

    Welcome to the forum doubts132, have a rabbit!  bunny

    Your story was heartbreaking to read. I hope that you will still find love and happiness in your life, which hopefully won't go bad with the toxic influence of theism. Feel free to join in on the conversations here, and I hope you enjoy your time here.  Afro

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #20 - July 13, 2014, 03:23 PM

    Hi there Shirly

    Welcome piggy for you piggy

    Very fascinating but also very sad story you have there. Sounds like a bit of Ex-Muslim trauma without ever having been a Muslim.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #21 - July 13, 2014, 05:18 PM

    Thank you Nikolaj for your welcome and the welcoms piggy!
    Yes, can't call myself an ex- muslim so first i thought: can i place my story here?  But i read so much about Islam and i talked so much about Islam  so i just wanted to share in what way it  effected my life. And it's nice that you can say  on this forum  what you want and express your real feelings without being judged. Or being threat with Hellfire and Satan!

    Take care!



    .

    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #22 - July 15, 2014, 11:39 PM

    One last word.

    Dear Anass,

    One day, about a year ago, i met you, a beautiful person with a beautiful heart. You  made me feel special. You were full of care, loyalty, honesty and love.
    In start we didnt discuss much  the fact that you were a Muslim boy, and that i was a girl without religion.  But our love grew, and so grew your fear. The fear that, one day in Paradise, we would not been able to be together.

    You said we were soulmates and that true love excisted. But you  spoke out your fear in all honesty and started to tell me about the beauty in Islam. About following the right path, and the benefits  that it would give me. Me, raised without any religion what so ever, had never took much interest in god. It was just never a part of my life.
    But i was willing to listen to your stories and i opened myself for it.  We were convinced we could work it out, if we realy wanted.
    I listened, i read, i watched videos of people who were converted. And you wanted so much that i saw the beauty in it. You sended me articles, links from websites. You did everything to get me on the right path.

    But i had my questions. So much questions. Why can you, as a man,  marry four women, while i can just marry  one man? Why should a men ever want to have four women in the first place?  Why is it so important for you that i cover my hair, while im still the same person, covered or un-covered. Why should i care that other men will look at me, while i only wanna look at you? Why is there a hoor for men in Paradise and is only mentioned that for women there's a equivalent delight? Why Allah gives only a hint?  Why can't he mention clearly what there is for us women? He's All-Known! Why he gives men so much priviliges and leaves us women guessing? 
    Why am i impure when i have my menstruation? I didn't ask for this monthly discomfort!   And if it's so impure than why Allah didn't think about that  before he created us women? Why could Prophet Mohammed have more than 4 wives? Why is the opinion of two women equal to that of one man?  So much simple question
    but never strict answers.
    I made you feel akward with all my questions cause for you it was all so simple. Its the word of god, and we can't doubt his words. We must accept that its the truth.


    you couldnt accept my western way of thinking. For you the western culture was one of bad influences, were i must be saved from. Cause that was what you have been told since childhood. I will never blame you for your ideas and thoughts. When your raised up with those ideas, it's hard to break them down. Cause it's the truth for you. And to deny it, is denying God and all were you stand for and believe in. But  it's Islam i blame,  for holding a grip on you and keeping your real being  locked up.


    Anass, i was raised in a warm, nice family. And although without religion, my family taught me the valuable lessons of live. And they allowed me to step into that big world on my own and to apply those lessons. They allowed me to grow up as a valuable human being. They gave me the opportunity to step into the world. That means no more than that they trusted me enough to let me experience things on my own, to let me spread my wings. And that made me into the person i am today. The person you fell in love with in the first place.
    You told me i had a soft heart. You were the one who said i was filled with kindness. Than am i not the living proof that you don't need god and religion to become such a person?

     And why, tell me why should a God punish such a person? Only because i don't believe?  So Sadam Hussein or Khomeini, with all there cruelties, deserve a place in heaven just because they worshipped Allah? While a nice, loyal  Dutch girl will end up in Hell, with all her loyalty and kindness? With her soft heart and her care? That doesnt make sence Anass. I realy can't accept that a God had this in mind for his creations.

    But your mind is so filled with ayats and hadiths, and all your thoughts are based on that.  I can't break through it, i can't reach you.
    You told me many times i was your reason to live and that you would die if i would leave you. I saw so many emotions on your face. Anger, sadness and  happiness when i made you laugh. You could have such sudden anger, out of nowhere, without a reason.

    And now, since we are seperated, i have the abilty to look back and think things over. And i realy believe there's something running in your brain which you can't express,  there's a struggle in your heart, which you try to push away. All because of fear. Cause i showed you that it's not about what you believe that makes a person, it's who you are. And im quite sure you feel that, deep down inside.

    You told me once maybe  Allah sended you  to tell me about Islam. But has it ever crossed your mind Anass, that it could have been the other way around ?That i crossed your path for a reason. To open your mind a little and to let the world come in?

    I love you forever because of the person you are. But i can never accept a religion which is filled with hate and violence Anass .Cause that's what i see when i read Koran. For me it's impossible to believe  this words comes from a God. These words come from a tiran who lived 1400 years ago  and his only goal was to overrule the people in his time and let them follow him. He made rules, let come down revelations, all according to his own needs. And see were that leaded  till today. He still holds people in his grip.
    Anass, I  realy tried but i can't find the peace in it.  It controles every aspect of your life. It tells you what to do, from the moment you stand up, till the time that you lay down and go to sleep. Day after day.
    And i realy can't accept with my heart that someone like you, with such nice character and such care, can embrace the violence and cruelties written in Koran. It stands so far from how i see and feel you.

     I wanna live Anass. I wanna dance, i wanna sing. I wanna listen to my favorite music. I wanna work and earn my own money. I wanna be free Anass, free in talking, free in walking on the street on my own and enjoy the sun and the flowers. I wanna feel the wind in my hair. And in the meantime i wanna stay the nice person i am.
    I wish i could let you feel how much you miss in life. Even your creative skiĺls you must push away. Your so talented in drawing . Even an innocent thing like a tatoo you can't have, while you like them so much.
    Remember the times you told me that your family goes from wedding to wedding, to find you a nice, pious, free muslim girl. Remember how often you told me you hated that. Remember it all Anass. 

    I hope one day you will be able to spread your wings and fly . And when that day will come I hope you will fly towards me.  I will be there to catch you. And than we take my bycycle, and we cycle to the nearest tatoo shop in town. 

    Anass i hope you will read this letter and feel the love and the care in it. But also my worries.  And promise me  when you answer my letter, to answer it from your heart and not from an ayat or  hadith. Will you please promise me that Anass?

    I love you forever and blame you for nothing. You will always be my Anass, the one who made me special.

    Love, Shirly





    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #23 - July 16, 2014, 12:30 AM

    Welcome Shirly! parrot

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #24 - July 16, 2014, 07:54 AM

    Very powerful post Shirly.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #25 - July 16, 2014, 08:32 AM

    Welcome Shirley..  i loved your letter to Anas :(  so sweet..

    X
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #26 - July 16, 2014, 11:11 AM

    That is such a sweet letter Shirley. I hope you email it to him or something. I hope he is not fanatical enough to believe in death for this kinda stuff though.

    I am glad I left my religion partly due to a girl. At least I know the girl is real. Although she is faaaaar, faaaar away, she is closer to me than any religions. And she has had a more positive effect on me than religion. Religion made me judgmental and introverted.  She has made me very outgoing, I try to open my mind more now, and I try to be a kind person.
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #27 - July 16, 2014, 01:13 PM

    Hello fellow dutchie Cheesy
    Soon we will take over this forum :devil:

    welcome and have a parrot  parrot parrot (or two)

    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #28 - July 16, 2014, 01:22 PM

    Yessss finally someone who understands that Dutchiess do deserve two parrots!! Cheesy Cheesy

    For god and money devils fight
    Religion holds a beast inside

    Racoon
  • hello from Holland!
     Reply #29 - July 16, 2014, 01:28 PM

    @doubts132 we deserve all parrots on earth  parrot beautiful creatures made by god nature

    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
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