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Theme Changer

 Topic: A difference between belief and faith?

 (Read 2968 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     OP - June 14, 2014, 11:45 AM

    So, I'm not sure if this is an original thought or not, but I can't recall ever hearing this distinction being made in religious terms. I'm wondering if there might be a difference between: 1) a religious belief - something that a person holds to be true because it is the only way they can understand their existence and their environment, and 2) Religious faith - something that people completely recognize to be far fetched and nonsensical, but hold out in trust that their God is somehow going to make it all make sense.

    Allow me to illustrate with some examples that got me thinking about this in the first place.

    Particularly when I lived in Saudi Arabia but also among Muslims here in the states, I found that many Muslims believed in Allah and could not fathom a way that he could not exist. Allah explained things in their world model. Questions like where do we come from, who created the sun, who sends down the rain, etc, are answered by the conclusion that there must be a god. The world does not make sense to them without it. They believe in Allah the way that we believe in gravity or electricity. Even if they can not identify him independently, he is a part of their understanding of the world.

    On the other hand, you have apologists like Hamza Tzortzis, Yasir Qadhi, even Usama Hassan  who must fully understand how unnecessary Allah is as an explanation. Many modern Muslims may also fall into this category. They don't need Allah to make sense of their world, but they still have faith that he exists. Some may even be setting aside their doubts because they have faith that somehow, Allah is going to come through and prove himself eventually.

    I liken this second category to what might happen if two friends catch themselves in a really desperate situation and one of them says, "I have a plan to get us out of here, but you have to trust me." Whether or not the second friend actually believes the plan will work, he can still have faith that his friend's cleverness, skill, speed, or what have you will end up saving them both from the situation.

    Essentially, people who believe in god hold it to be true as a matter of understanding and fact. People with faith in god might realize why it all sounds like nonsense, but they are going to trust it anyway in hopes it somehow turns out to be true.

    What do you all make of this difference?

    I wonder if both could be considered iman billah.
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #1 - June 14, 2014, 12:26 PM

    Quote
    apologists like Hamza Tzortzis, Yasir Qadhi, even Usama Hassan

     

    This might sounds really nit picky but I think Usama Hassan is a reformer and not an apologist like Tzortzis and Qadhi.

    He's main focus from what I understand is not defending islam but reforming it.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #2 - June 14, 2014, 12:32 PM

    Well that's why I said "even" because while he is not in the same boat as the first two, he still claims to "believe" in Allah. I imagine his belief doesn't take the same form as traditional muslims, which is why I wonder if it might more appropriately be described as faith - if it is sincere at all, that is.
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #3 - June 14, 2014, 12:37 PM

    That makes sense, I believe most Muslims fall into the second category. This is faith in the god etc, without having to dogmatically follow the book. So for instance Turkish and Kurdish Muslims who drink and eat pork but still have faith in god and associate with the Muslim methods of meditation (prayer). This means that they can still say that they are Muslim but are not believers, they are faithers. TBH with you only the people that actually discuss what is in the religious texts and say 'this is what it says and thus this is how I should act' or 'What should I do here, the texts say this therefore I will do this even though I don't like it cause god says so' whether the interpretation is peaceful or violent are actually believers in the religion.
     
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #4 - April 28, 2015, 08:03 PM

    I'm still unsure there is any substantial difference between faith and belief.
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #5 - April 28, 2015, 08:04 PM

    The hardest question for me is:

    "Do you believe in God?"

    I'm really not sure. I can't honestly say I do, but I can't honestly say I don't lol

    WTF?? haha
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #6 - April 28, 2015, 09:26 PM

    I'm fairly confident theistic gods/the gods of human religions past and present don't exist. Can't rule out a deistic god, however you define that. But I doubt if there is a god it would give a shit about me even if it knew I existed. Also don't believe in an afterlife. I think if I actually did come to the conclusion such a god exists, it would be like accepting Taiwan exists. It would have no practical impact on my life.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #7 - April 28, 2015, 09:36 PM

    I'm fairly confident theistic gods/the gods of human religions past and present don't exist. Can't rule out a deistic god, however you define that. But I doubt if there is a god it would give a shit about me even if it knew I existed. Also don't believe in an afterlife. I think if I actually did come to the conclusion such a god exists, it would be like accepting Taiwan exists. It would have no practical impact on my life.


    But Taiwan loves you!  Cry

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #8 - April 28, 2015, 09:58 PM

    If Taiwan loves me Taiwan is perfectly capable of telling me.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #9 - April 28, 2015, 10:06 PM

    Taiwan needs you to accept it as your lord and personal savior first.

    Also your money, it needs a lot of your money.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #10 - April 28, 2015, 10:15 PM

    Sounds dodgy.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #11 - April 29, 2015, 04:49 AM

    I'm still unsure there is any substantial difference between faith and belief.


    Certain sets of beliefs can be justified. The belief that it will rain tomorrow can be justified by weather reports, meteorology, etc. It can be confirmed later to be true. Faith is a position in which there is no justification that can provide evidence of a truth claim. So faith in a God can not be proven until God can be demonstrated to be real. Faith is a subset of belief with the absences of proof. So while part of the greater term of belief the requirements are far lower than other subsets.
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #12 - April 29, 2015, 06:43 AM

    I'm still unsure there is any substantial difference between faith and belief.


    I guess the easiest way to put it is that one you have because of your understanding of the evidence; the other you have in spite of your understanding of the evidence.
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #13 - April 29, 2015, 07:23 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q16QY7xtCnw

    Some one need to take the charge of these kids .. "The faith heads and the believing heads "

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • A difference between belief and faith?
     Reply #14 - May 02, 2015, 03:35 AM

    happymurtad, this is an interesting distinction between "belief" and "faith." I've never really thought about it this way before, but I think I may start thinking about it in these terms from now on. Most of my older relatives--my parents, aunts, uncles, etc.--seem to truly believe, whereas a number of my cousins, especially those who are educated, fall into the camp of faith (but not belief).

    It has always struck me as odd how educated individuals can have such strong belief, and I always attributed it to compartmentalization--doctors and scientists, for example, who understand the intricacies, imperfections, and stupidities of the human body and the universe yet continue to believe in their Allah as if these things are entirely unrelated. I think faith, as opposed to genuine belief or conviction, and compartmentalization go hand in hand.
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