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Theme Changer

 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

 (Read 420514 times)
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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2100 - May 26, 2015, 03:27 PM

    Scrubs knew where to find Bin Laden in 2006.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLw95CBjrdI

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2101 - May 26, 2015, 03:43 PM

    Doing what? Starting another war in the Middle East? Giving that every war we started, ended up by being epic, epic failure...

    You know what we should do, we should put that bastard Bush in prison for life. And idiots who backed rebels in Libya and helped rebels/islamists to top Gaddafi off, should be also held accountable for the misery they helped to be created. Mr. Sarkozy on the front row.

    The best thing we can do is to f...ing stay out of waging wars there. But as we elect dumb politicians, I doubt will ever happens.



    I meant on a humatarian level, i know the UN are incompetent, but i wish we could have atleast done something to save for example the hundreds of women and children that have been raped and slaughtered a couple days ago in Palmyra, surely we could have found a better way to evacuate people caught up in war zones.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2102 - May 26, 2015, 03:49 PM

    Hmm do you want to say that somehow, evil smart West wants to destabilize the Middle East and create chaos there? What we will gain from this?  Hundred of thousands of illegal middle eastern immigrants on our shores. Do you think West wants this?  


    i have lived enough in the west to understand that there is a huge difference between the population and the people who made decisions.

    my point is the USA's policy in the middle east is irrational and not in the benefit of it's citizen,  not even in it's economy,  so why causing instability ? perhaps to have weak countries and eternal conflicts ? why that ?  i don't know , maybe some countries in the middle east feel a stable middle east pose an existential threat to them in the long term.

  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2103 - May 26, 2015, 04:07 PM

    Doing what? Starting another war in the Middle East?

    I would be 100% behind wiping the islamic state from the face of the Earth. Once we've removed this cancer we can focus on the trials the members will face for their war crimes and their crimes against humanity.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2104 - May 26, 2015, 04:52 PM

    Yes for some of it, although I'm still not with you on the instability part? Because I don't think we really wanted this scenario, and although some knew it might be an issue, I don't think we were hoping for shit like daesh, and I can't imagine what the benefit would be for us now. As far as I can tell, our MO has been to knock a place down and set up a new guy who we think might keep things manageable for us and ideally back our interests. Am I totally off base here?


    Of course we weren't hoping for something like Daesh, that's pretty much the worst, but that's what I meant by broken eggs.

    Actually the worst would be anything that empowers people to make substantial change in their government and focus on national development independent of foreign influences. We'd have to shut that shit down real fast.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2105 - May 26, 2015, 07:56 PM

    I meant on a humatarian level, i know the UN are incompetent, but i wish we could have atleast done something to save for example the hundreds of women and children that have been raped and slaughtered a couple days ago in Palmyra, surely we could have found a better way to evacuate people caught up in war zones.


    We can't do much on humanitarian level in Syria without backing Assad regime. As strange as it sounds.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2106 - May 26, 2015, 08:08 PM

    i have lived enough in the west to understand that there is a huge difference between the population and the people who made decisions.

    my point is the USA's policy in the middle east is irrational and not in the benefit of it's citizen,  not even in it's economy,  so why causing instability ? perhaps to have weak countries and eternal conflicts ? why that ?  i don't know , maybe some countries in the middle east feel a stable middle east pose an existential threat to them in the long term.



    Please let us know some benefits that you think West can have from an unstable middle east on short term or long term or... whatever... As I understand you think USA has gone in Iraq to create instability and not for oil.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2107 - May 26, 2015, 08:23 PM

    I would be 100% behind wiping the islamic state from the face of the Earth. Once we've removed this cancer we can focus on the trials the members will face for their war crimes and their crimes against humanity.


    I concede that this is very tempting. But what we will do after all of these will finish. Pull our our armies and let the "democrats" like in Iraq and Libya rule, as we have done already? Who do you think can govern Syria after?

    We will face the same problems like the coalition in Iraq after 2003 and even worst as in the meantime half of population has been heavily indoctrinated by ISIS. If we really want to kill this monster we should back Assad. Rebels are a losing card.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2108 - May 26, 2015, 08:25 PM

    Is it bad that I feel a strictly imposed western colonial force would be better than all this? Either that or an occupation lasting 30-50 yrs like post-ww2 Germany which at least for the Western Germans turned out okay? Nobody wants to do a proper job, or what they view as a proper job is a barbaric fail (SA, Iran, US).


    The occupation lasted five years (1945-1949).
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2109 - May 26, 2015, 08:33 PM

    I concede that this is very tempting. But what we will do after all of these will finish. Pull our our armies and let the "democrats" like in Iraq and Libya rule, as we have done already? Who do you think can govern Syria after?

    We will face the same problems like the coalition in Iraq after 2003 and even worst as in the meantime half of population has been heavily indoctrinated by ISIS. If we really want to kill this monster we should back Assad. Rebels are a losing card.

    If we are in a position to do good, we have a moral obligation to act. It doesn't always work out the way we want, and politics are always going on, but it doesn't change this one simple truth. All that evil needs to flourish is for good people to do nothing. We are seeing this age old lesson playing out once again before our eyes. The Geneva convention, the human rights act that every signatory has sworn to uphold, is not protection only for the privileged few. If that's the case, then it's worthless. The fact we've fucked up in the past doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes. I would go so far as to say we have a duty to learn from them.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2110 - May 26, 2015, 08:46 PM

    If we are in a position to do good, we have a moral obligation to act. It doesn't always work out the way we want, and politics are always going on, but it doesn't change this one simple truth. All that evil needs to flourish is for good people to do nothing. We are seeing this age old lesson playing out once again before our eyes. The Geneva convention, the human rights act that every signatory has sworn to uphold, is not protection only for the privileged few. If that's the case, then it's worthless. The fact we've fucked up in the past doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes. I would go so far as to say we have a duty to learn from them.


    But we are doing something. We are backing up local forces against ISIS, it is the smartest thing we can do. West will never be seen as liberators there, not even against ISIS as there are Non Muslims countries. The best way is for local forces to do the job. Boots on the ground was a failure with soviets in Afghanistan and with coalition in both Afghanistan and Iraq. 3 times we did it, and 3 times we we ended up by created monsters like Talibans and ISIS. So if it is something that we can learn is stop putting boots on the ground there.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2111 - May 26, 2015, 08:48 PM

    It does seem like any time a bad guy is taken out something worse comes along. However, does that invalidate my post?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2112 - May 26, 2015, 09:11 PM

    It certainly does not invalidate your post.
    We have a moral obligation to act, not only because it is a big humanitarian crisis, but also because we started all this mess(not that it matters for our politicians)

    We are differing only to the way how to act...
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2113 - May 26, 2015, 09:25 PM

    Fair enough.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2114 - May 27, 2015, 01:14 PM

    Presence of ISIS  militants in Pakistan and that is DWAN's Editorial..

    Quote
    THE rise of the self-styled Islamic State in the Middle East has been marked by its ruthlessness on the battlefield and resultant occupation of territory in Iraq and Syria, as well as its manifest brutality.

    Yet with the declaration of the ‘caliphate’ last year, an even more disturbing dimension became apparent: IS’s desire to expand across the Muslim world, and perhaps beyond.

    The extremist outfit’s latest success has been the capture of the ancient Syrian city of Palmyra; reportedly, hundreds of people have been massacred in the aftermath of the IS takeover. Where its expansionism is concerned, two senior foreign military figures have recently stated publicly that IS now has a presence in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.................

    Quote
    Gen John F. Campbell, Nato’s commander in Afghanistan, has said IS is recruiting in that country as well as Pakistan while separately, Gen Ahmad-Reza Pourdastan, commander of Iran’s ground forces, has also observed that the group is present in these two countries.

    Where Afghanistan is concerned, as the Nato general himself pointed out, some estranged Taliban fighters may be “rebranding” themselves with the IS label. In Pakistan, the situation is slightly different.

     Here, pro-IS graffiti, the distribution of literature praising the outfit (such as that found at the site of the recent massacre of Ismailis in Karachi), as well as the pledging of allegiance of some breakaway factions of the banned TTP to ‘caliph’ Baghdadi are all being described as ‘evidence’ of the so-called caliphate in Pakistan.

    However, these do not constitute concrete proof. After all, how difficult is it for an armchair militant, or sympathiser, to ensure pro-IS wall-chalkings? Also, anyone with a computer and printer can produce and distribute literature in praise of the ‘caliphate’. As for local militants pledging themselves to Baghdadi’s cause, this may simply be a ruse to raise their profile.

    Quote
    Having said that, these developments cannot be ignored either. For it is also true that there are many in this country’s intricate web of militant and extremist groups that identify with the twisted worldview of IS — especially its virulent sectarianism and extremist interpretation of Islam.


    And considering IS’s rapid advances, local supporters may well be emboldened to emulate these ‘successes’. So while it would be premature to say IS has arrived in Pakistan, it would also be wrong to completely ignore attempts to create a presence in this country.

    After all, IS ‘recruiters’ have been arrested elsewhere in the subcontinent, for example in Bangladesh. The state must keep a close watch on groups that share the IS ideology.......................


    Well there is more at it., So the problem boils down to virulent sectarianism and extremist interpretation of Islam  ..  My questions are to  all these these nations that are fighting wars against these BRUTAL  MUSLIM ROGUES and to the rulers of these nations..


    a). How much money,  did these Islamic and non Islamic nations spent on these wars   they created since that 9/11??

     b). How much death and destruction   did these Islamic and non Islamic nations went through  since that 9/11 ??

    c). How much money, how many printing presses  they need and What would it take  to eliminate this   virulent sectarianism Islam and that  extremist interpretation of Islam??


    Fools write nonsense from both sides..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2115 - May 28, 2015, 10:16 PM

    The occupation lasted five years (1945-1949).


    After the war Germany was split into UK, US, Russian and French controlled zones in the main with slow allowance of more German input into the running of things after 47, there was a military presence of all those countries until the fall of the Berlin wall in 1990. The French, US and Uk parts eventually merged to form Western Germany et cetera. There were issues but I think it led to stability.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Germany_(1945%E2%80%9390)

    Interesting talk given this weekend by Tom Holland about deradicalising Muhammed and the possible need for a 30 year war type approach to jihadi/salafism.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I5slk97ss2Q
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2116 - May 29, 2015, 12:03 AM

    Excellent talk by Tom Holland
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2117 - May 29, 2015, 11:41 AM

    Germany was split into UK, US, Russian and French controlled zones

    Why did the cheese-eating surrender monkeys get a share? No shame, much chutzpah.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2118 - May 29, 2015, 03:49 PM

    Politics David. France had an image it no longer deserved but was still in the minds of many. It was a token acknowledge of the resistance under the facade of the nation of France, which no longer existed or in the past was so inept it resulted in the occupation. This propaganda only led to France's further decline from a world power into what it is today. The new nation removed communist, socialist and any radicals from government, the ones that actually fought during the occupation, placing leaders in charge which were mostly gas bags, did nothing people like De Gaulle. Thus the image was still in the minds of it's leaders which caused it to overestimate it's abilities which just caused problems like Algeria and Vietnam.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2119 - May 31, 2015, 02:51 AM

    ISIS destroys famous 1,900-year-old statue of the goddess Al-Lat in captured Syrian city of Palmyra just days after promising locals they would not obliterate ancient monuments


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2120 - May 31, 2015, 05:26 AM

    Sighs!
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2121 - May 31, 2015, 08:34 AM

     they should start with their own pagan shrine in mecca.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2122 - May 31, 2015, 03:54 PM

    I heard that is exactly what they want to do.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2123 - May 31, 2015, 03:59 PM

    They want to destroy the kaaba?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2124 - May 31, 2015, 04:04 PM

    I believe so. I think they want to destroy everything around it, too.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/01/isis-destroy-kaaba-mecca_n_5547635.html

    We all know the Al Saud has been covering up and pulling down other religious and historical sites in Saudi Arabia. This is the same mentality, different target.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2125 - May 31, 2015, 04:09 PM

    I doubt they'd actually want to destroy the kaaba, though even many Saudis do actually want to see the Green Dome above the prophet's grave destroyed.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2126 - May 31, 2015, 04:29 PM

    For those interested in the reasoning of the above:

    Why is the Prophet’s grave in his mosque even though it is forbidden to take graves as places of worship?

    The green dome in Madeenah: its history and the ruling on its construction and on leaving it as it is

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2127 - May 31, 2015, 10:03 PM

    Not sure IS promised not to demolish statues, it would seem that they were referring to the buildings.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2128 - June 01, 2015, 02:38 AM

    Can we obliterate them yet?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #2129 - June 01, 2015, 10:56 AM

    Interesting that all these statues and ancient ruins stayed relatively intact, more or less no one intentionally destroying them, despite of the hundred of years the glorious khilafah ruleing the area. You know the golden days these nutjobs want to go back to. Or maybe they were all good for nothing, until pure ISIS came to save us and reaaaallllyyyy bring back the way of the Mo and his SWT.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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