The topic of pre marital sex

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- bogart
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The topic of pre marital sex
Reply #120 - August 08, 2014, 08:55 PM

Quote from: omena on August 08, 2014, 09:53 AM
Virginity and 'purity', mainly of women, has been fetishised for a long time. In the Bible, pre-marital sex was a sin because at that time a man had to buy his wife from the woman's father - if you slept with her before marriage, you were 'robbing' her dad. Yet again, it is to do with property. After the times of hunter-gathering, it seems that the idea of women as part of property became as wide spread as it still seems to be today.

This is not true in the way you put it. Yes virginity was a big thing. Both the groom and bride's families had to pay for the couple so the man buying a bride is false. Premarital sex was not illegal just not looked at positively. I'm not sure where you got this information, it certainly is not in the Torah
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Reply #121 - August 08, 2014, 10:28 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 05, 2014, 07:01 AM
There's also Seeds of Iblis, Fearless Iranians From Hell, Janaza, and of course Anahita who comes out with such gems as
So yeah, don't despair just because you haven't found them.

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I should check these guys out then ^^ I did find some anti-islamic bands from Algeria, Egypt I think... but it was all hate, which is fine, but I need silly, flamboyant and humorous xD

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Also I heard there is a metal thread but where? I am not on my pc so searching for it everywhere takes ages.
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The topic of pre marital sex
Reply #122 - August 08, 2014, 10:32 PM

Surprisingly, the Torah does not prohibit pre-marital sex but it is considered a 'cultural taboo'. However, the Torah encourages adherents to follow social norms and customs to better themselves and contribute to the communitya round and therefore the practise of cultural taboos is frowned upon.

From an anthropological perspective (subdivide in to cultural if you want to be particualr about it), oman is correct. From a theological, bogart is at best partially correct as the situation is more nuanced than a simple black and white answer as oman did reference The Bible.

Her is a resource that you could start from.

http://seedbed.com/feed/is-premarital-sex-a-sin-bible-scholars-respond/

No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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Reply #123 - August 08, 2014, 11:12 PM

Quote from: feryel on August 08, 2014, 10:28 PM

Also I heard there is a metal thread but where? I am not on my pc so searching for it everywhere takes ages.

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=17275.msg772984#msg772984
here you go. also if yo switch to desktop mode on your phone browser it might help

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The topic of pre marital sex
Reply #124 - August 08, 2014, 11:50 PM

Quote from: Jedi on August 08, 2014, 10:32 PM
Surprisingly, the Torah does not prohibit pre-marital sex but it is considered a 'cultural taboo'. However, the Torah encourages adherents to follow social norms and customs to better themselves and contribute to the communitya round and therefore the practise of cultural taboos is frowned upon.

From an anthropological perspective (subdivide in to cultural if you want to be particualr about it), oman is correct. From a theological, bogart is at best partially correct as the situation is more nuanced than a simple black and white answer as oman did reference The Bible.

Her is a resource that you could start from.

http://seedbed.com/feed/is-premarital-sex-a-sin-bible-scholars-respond/

Judaism as a culture had a love hate relationship with foreign cultures. In the case of the pre and post Hellenistic period the lines between cultures blurred in some areas. There were various theology sects which took stances between acceptance, rejection, assimilation or partial assimilation of foreign cultures and ideas. There were groups which would be called puritans or multicultural. There is also the divide between Israelites and Benjamites in Judges in which the Benjamites were cut off from the Israelites. So from a puritan point of view foreign social norms were to be rejected if these ideas were influence by a religion or influenced Judaism as a religion. Yet on the other hand many of the puritans borrowed from Greek philosophy with some being firm Stoics.

Even theological speaking one could pick a group which supports a bias from any time period and claim to be right. I am just expressing a textual analysis rather than a theological analysis.

The Cambridge Dictionary of Judaism and Jewish Culture is a good read covering different perspectives.
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The topic of pre marital sex
Reply #125 - August 09, 2014, 12:21 PM

Quote from: bogart on August 08, 2014, 08:55 PM
This is not true in the way you put it. Yes virginity was a big thing. Both the groom and bride's families had to pay for the couple so the man buying a bride is false. Premarital sex was not illegal just not looked at positively. I'm not sure where you got this information, it certainly is not in the Torah

Hi, oh bummer yes, I was mixing it up with my understanding of Islamic dowry and the definition of 'sexual perversion'. Being a 'tilth' and all that.

That's interesting. I always thought it was 'illegal', but then again that was from a Christian perspective as was told by my old fave Paul in Corinthians...can thank my all-girls school for that

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The topic of pre marital sex
Reply #126 - August 09, 2014, 06:05 PM

Quote from: feryel on August 08, 2014, 10:28 PM
Also I heard there is a metal thread but where? I am not on my pc so searching for it everywhere takes ages.

There's also a black metal thread.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #127 - August 09, 2014, 11:40 PM

Quote from: omena on August 09, 2014, 12:21 PM
Hi, oh bummer yes, I was mixing it up with my understanding of Islamic dowry and the definition of 'sexual perversion'. Being a 'tilth' and all that.

That's interesting. I always thought it was 'illegal', but then again that was from a Christian perspective as was told by my old fave Paul in Corinthians...can thank my all-girls school for that

It could be based on illegal sex in the sense of rape or one night stands. In this case the perpetrator pays the father a dowry to support the child and mother. The father is paid as he is responsible for providing for his children. If the daughter marries the perpetrator both families pay the dowry. If the daughter decides to become independent of her family, she is given a dowry.

Keep in mind the OT has set rules which are not always followed in the NT. Paul was the one which started the trend that Gentiles were not required to live like Jews nor follow their customs. A Christian can accept social norms of their culture over that of Hebrew culture. They can pick what to follow and what not to follow from the OT.
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