Introducing myself

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- Nikolaj
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Reply #30 - May 07, 2014, 10:09 PM

Hi Trustworthy

Welcome Note that you have many allies in your search for freedom and they aren't all ex-Musilms - or people who hate Muslims. I found this place because I finally had the time to find out what this Islam thing is and this was seriously the best place all over teh Interwebs that was able to give me neutral look into the religion and many diverse cultures.

Have a parrot And since I'm in Denmark a piggy too

Happy to have you here

Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
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Reply #31 - May 07, 2014, 10:24 PM

Quote from: Trustworthy on May 07, 2014, 10:01 PM
Thanks, Naz. I understand from what you're saying that your parents don't know about your apostasy yet. What do you mean when you say you have got no problems with your parents? Your last sentence is exactly what I want too. Have you come up with anything yet? Feel free to share :p

Thanks, Billy. I already feel better with the overwhelming amount of replies and kind words.

Sorry, I should have worded that better, I only meant that I get on relatively well with my parents, I know that a lot of people in this situation can tend to have tense relations with their relatives, friends etc.

I think I'll probably take a gradual approach, maybe play the "lazy muslim" or "liberal muslim" angle and see how that goes down. Eventually, they'll be a point where it's obvious that I'm irreligious but hopefully it won't come as a complete shock. That's what I've got so far, I guess I could go on with the double life and there are steps I can take which will make it easier for me but I could do without the paranoia.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
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Reply #32 - May 07, 2014, 10:27 PM

Hi Nikolaj!

Thank you. For the majority of my life I've had few non-Muslim friends. Now that I'm in this phase, I'm trying to broaden my horizon and be open to other cultures and beliefs, too. Your openmindedness is refreshing!

The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
- three
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Reply #33 - May 08, 2014, 12:24 AM

Quote from: Trustworthy on May 07, 2014, 04:02 PM
Dear lord, it's more than a thousand words. Bear with me, guys.

Welcome. I like more words, rather than less.
I haven't got any advice for you, and I am not sure you need any. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and working on your masters ought to help secure you a future.
What I do know, for certain, is that most of our fears are baseless. I think the statistics are that 95 or 98 percent of what we fear never comes to pass.
There are a lot of possible futures.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- Jila
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Reply #34 - May 08, 2014, 04:02 AM

welcome <3
Quote from: ZooBear
- Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.
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Reply #35 - May 08, 2014, 08:14 AM

Quote from: Naz on May 07, 2014, 10:24 PM
Sorry, I should have worded that better, I only meant that I get on relatively well with my parents, I know that a lot of people in this situation can tend to have tense relations with their relatives, friends etc.

I think I'll probably take a gradual approach, maybe play the "lazy muslim" or "liberal muslim" angle and see how that goes down. Eventually, they'll be a point where it's obvious that I'm irreligious but hopefully it won't come as a complete shock. That's what I've got so far, I guess I could go on with the double life and there are steps I can take which will make it easier for me but I could do without the paranoia.

Ah, I see what you mean. I actually get on really well with my mom. If it wouldn't be for her, I'd gone batshit crazy a loong time ago. Though I can't say the same about my relationship with my dad, I really don't want him to be a stranger to me.

Sounds like a plan. It's something I can try, too. Starting with small things like nailpolish and stuff and just keep kicking it up a notch.
How does one lead a double life where one is open with co-workers, non-Muslim friends or other people that are not in the inner family/friends circle? Or is that where the paranoia comes in?

Quote from: three on May 08, 2014, 12:24 AM
Welcome. I like more words, rather than less.
I haven't got any advice for you, and I am not sure you need any. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and working on your masters ought to help secure you a future.
What I do know, for certain, is that most of our fears are baseless. I think the statistics are that 95 or 98 percent of what we fear never comes to pass.
There are a lot of possible futures.

Hi, three! Thank you. I can be a bit wordy about things I'm passionate (or obsessed) about. Actually, I can be a bit wordy about a LOT of things...

I don't know if advice is what I'm looking for. For me, it always helps to have someone else's point of view on things. It helps me break out of the imaginary mindshackles often find myself in. Just like you say: most of our fears are basesless. It is us and our thoughts that scare ourselves.

And to feel like I'm not the only one is always comforting.

Quote from: Jila on May 08, 2014, 12:24 AM
welcome <3

Thanks, Jila <3

The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
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Reply #36 - May 08, 2014, 08:16 AM

Is it just me or is this forum addictive? I woke up and it was the first thing on my mind. I could do without the distraction but I need the comfort.

Where do you guys live and what is your ethnical background?

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- lua
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Reply #37 - May 08, 2014, 10:44 AM

^ I have never been so distracted by an internet thing as I have by CEMB. I almost always have it open on my tablet at work/school...
- ladybird
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Reply #38 - May 08, 2014, 11:40 AM

Well, it is true, I am also not planning to live my whole life a double life. I will wait untill I get married and maybe!!!! I will think of telling my parents. But for now, I wont tell anyone.

Where do you actually live?

Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

Exmuslim Chat
- Jila
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Reply #39 - May 08, 2014, 02:42 PM

yeah it's addicting as hell. It's one of my procrastination tools
Quote from: ZooBear
- Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.
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Reply #40 - May 08, 2014, 04:08 PM

Quote from: lua on May 08, 2014, 10:44 AM
^ I have never been so distracted by an internet thing as I have by CEMB. I almost always have it open on my tablet at work/school...

It's crazy, haha. Yesterday I spent my whole afternoon at the university just reading people's stories. First I checked if no one was around, though. Kinda paranoid. I'm on my phone now, I should get a password again...

Quote from: ladybird on May 08, 2014, 11:40 AM
Well, it is true, I am also not planning to live my whole life a double life. I will wait untill I get married and maybe!!!! I will think of telling my parents. But for now, I wont tell anyone.

Where do you actually live?

I can imagine you not telling anyone for now. I have had some horrible sleepless nights last week just imagining telling my parents. But how do you plan on finding someone with the same ideals as you if you pretend to be someone you're not? It's one of the things I can't work out for myself.

I'll private message you, okay?

The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
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Reply #41 - May 08, 2014, 04:10 PM

Quote from: Jila on May 08, 2014, 02:42 PM
yeah it's addicting as hell. It's one of my procrastination tools

I can imagine! I used it last night as a way of procrastinating while I should've been preparing some work things. In the morning: same thing xD

The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
- Naz
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Reply #42 - May 08, 2014, 04:34 PM

Quote from: Trustworthy on May 08, 2014, 08:14 AM

How does one lead a double life where one is open with co-workers, non-Muslim friends or other people that are not in the inner family/friends circle? Or is that where the paranoia comes in?

That's essentially it, you'll be constantly checking to make sure you've covered your tracks and it'll just be exhausting and unnecessary - you should have the ability to live your life without any of these shackles and constraints.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
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Reply #43 - May 08, 2014, 07:38 PM

Naz: That sounds horrible. I already feel emotionally exhausted now that I'm being honest with myself (or trying to.)
I keep having this little moments of panic, like: omg, I am reading someone saying Fuck Islam without blinking.

I know the double life is only a temporary thing for me. Just imagining and "deciding" to pretend to practise and believing while not actually believing made me sick to my stomache.

The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
- Naz
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Reply #44 - May 08, 2014, 11:27 PM

Yeah, I know a lot of people have trouble with this, but, like you said it's just temporary and life will get better

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
- Ricky
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Reply #45 - May 09, 2014, 06:41 PM

Welcome! I know this forum is great for people who don't have anyone else to talk to in real life because everyone is so muslim around them but.... it helps a lot more if someone is going through the same thing as you in real life. It gets wayyyyy better as time goes on in terms of being comfortable with who you are becoming as a person after leaving islam. I hope you live in a place with not many muslims, it just helps a lot with living a non muslim lifestyle while keeping ur parents in the dark. And Ive always felt that lying to your parents is considered bad in islam a lot more but in a secular sense its not so bad. cant make everyone in ur family happy!

Btw have u tried alcohol yet? :p
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Reply #46 - May 10, 2014, 09:11 AM

Quote from: Ricky on May 09, 2014, 06:41 PM
Welcome! I know this forum is great for people who don't have anyone else to talk to in real life because everyone is so muslim around them but.... it helps a lot more if someone is going through the same thing as you in real life. It gets wayyyyy better as time goes on in terms of being comfortable with who you are becoming as a person after leaving islam. I hope you live in a place with not many muslims, it just helps a lot with living a non muslim lifestyle while keeping ur parents in the dark. And Ive always felt that lying to your parents is considered bad in islam a lot more but in a secular sense its not so bad. cant make everyone in ur family happy!

Btw have u tried alcohol yet? :p

Actually, I do have a friend irl who is going through pretty much the same, except she is in a further stage than I am. I've tried to meet up with her several times the past week but we're both too busy.
Problem is that I live in a place with tooo many muslims! There are eyes everywhere!

I have lied to my parents before, especially my dad, to be able to do the things I love while at the same time making them feel like I'm obeying them. This includes going out for dinner with friends, which is pretty innocent to me, but my dad is so uptight about it. Although I hate it, I'm used to lying, I just don't want to compromise anymore.

No, I haven't. I'm not sure I want to right now. I don't want people to hold it against me, to tell me that the only reason I left Islam is to be able to drink etc. Silly, cause why would I care what other people think as long as I know the truth but still...
But I've always said I'd drink Baileys if I wasn't a Muslim, so I'm curious to try that later on^^

Funny thing: yesterday I wanted to buy a chicken burger from Burger King. It has been about 7 years since I've consciously bought and ate non-halal meat. My heart was doing flipflops! I chickened out when the guy behind the cash desk looked like a Muslim. Soo I bought curly fries instead. Big disappointment, lol.

Do you drink? And if so, what would you recommend?

The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
- Ricky
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Reply #47 - May 13, 2014, 06:26 PM

Yeah I know what you mean. I started drinking 4 months after I left. But I started eating non halal like couple weeks later. You should go into an area where no one really knows you and buy food there! Its good to have friends who think like you; its like a healthy support circle. Yeah I drink. I use to drink a lot last summer, its not healthy I guess and never been caught at home so its all good so far. But I cut back now. Baileys I haven't had yet but I'm going to when school starts and I start buying coffee haha. But I started with beer. Unless your the kinda girl that hates beer, then hard stuff is probably your thing like vodka (Russian standard being my fav). I'd recommend Budweiser if you wanna try your first beer. I find European-made beers (that have higher % alcohol) are just gross. Budweiser, Coors light, budlight are what I'd recommend. Some people like Mikes Hard but its a very feminine drink. Where are u from?
- Luthiel
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Reply #48 - May 14, 2014, 05:30 PM

Quote from: Ricky on May 13, 2014, 06:26 PM
I'd recommend Budweiser if you wanna try your first beer. I find European-made beers (that have higher % alcohol) are just gross. Budweiser, Coors light, budlight are what I'd recommend. Some people like Mikes Hard but its a very feminine drink.

^ I can't allow statements like that about beer to exist unchallenged, especially in public. Please, for your own sake, Trustworthy and everyone else, and particularly you Ricky take a look at this beer guide I've written to save your poor palates. You are missing out on So. Much.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
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Reply #49 - May 14, 2014, 05:41 PM

^ I need to try proper beer, I've only experienced the piss variety so far.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
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Reply #50 - May 14, 2014, 09:04 PM

Ricky: Tomorrow, I'm going out for dinner with my doubting friend, who I've told everything about my "journey" just yesterday and I'm definitely going to eat some non-halal meat. I'll save alcohol for another time, maybe when my parents aren't around for a while.

Luthiel: I'll definitely check out your beer guide. However I don't think I'm the beer kinda girl. I think I prefer cocktails (mm mojito) and the strong stuff like Whiskey. Just a gut feeling, something I 'believe'

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Reply #51 - July 22, 2014, 04:18 PM

Welcome to the forum Trustworthy, have a rabbit!

Sorry to hear about your mother, and best of luck on your Master's.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #52 - July 22, 2014, 07:19 PM

Welcome!

On whisky, you might find it difficult to find, but try the only Welsh whisky Penderyn.

Your comments about free will and predestination amused me, as theological "debates" (alright hot wars) have occurred about this in christianity for centuries and are being replayed in science!

The core xian sects about this subject are Arminians and Calvinists.

They used to hate each other - Arminians might be Pentecostal, who Calvinist said were of Satan.

I have recently discovered a Calvinist Pentecostal Church!

I am getting more and more puzzled about the attitudes of parents written about here.

Do they not understand that children grow and develop and are therefore different to themselves? The role of parents is to guide not control.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #53 - July 22, 2014, 07:23 PM

What is this fear of hurting parents about?

Similar forms of emotional blackmail have been written about in other threads.

No one ever turns out as parents want. If they do there are serious issues to worry about.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- three
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Reply #54 - July 23, 2014, 12:30 AM

I think a lot of parents teach their children that they ¨owe¨ them. Many cultures teach children to be forever obedient to their parents, and expect those children to care for their parents, always.
If parents raise their children to be obedient to them, and to fulfill their parent's expectations rather than their own desires, then sometimes emotional blackmail is quite effective. Not every person can handle losing their parent's love and presence in their lives, and if you are raised to be dependent on your parents, this makes even more sense in such a case.
This is how abusers groom their victims, as well.
Teach them that they are incapable of making decent choices, and make their decisions for them. The victim loses the ability to make choices, because it is sort of like a muscle, if you don't use it, it grows weak.
This creates a dependency, you no longer trust yourself to do the best by yourself, you need someone else to do it for you. Parents are in a perfect spot to do this to their children. Sad, but true.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #55 - July 23, 2014, 01:25 AM

^
Excellent point Three, people in similar situations take note.
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Reply #56 - July 23, 2014, 06:11 AM

Perfect example of why I voted three for poster of the month.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #57 - July 23, 2014, 06:39 AM

Quote from: three on July 23, 2014, 12:30 AM
I think a lot of parents teach their children that they ¨owe¨ them. Many cultures teach children to be forever obedient to their parents, and expect those children to care for their parents, always.
If parents raise their children to be obedient to them, and to fulfill their parent's expectations rather than their own desires, then sometimes emotional blackmail is quite effective. Not every person can handle losing their parent's love and presence in their lives, and if you are raised to be dependent on your parents, this makes even more sense in such a case.
This is how abusers groom their victims, as well.
Teach them that they are incapable of making decent choices, and make their decisions for them. The victim loses the ability to make choices, because it is sort of like a muscle, if you don't use it, it grows weak.
This creates a dependency, you no longer trust yourself to do the best by yourself, you need someone else to do it for you. Parents are in a perfect spot to do this to their children. Sad, but true.

Which is why the prospect of them making decisions like arranged marriages scares the living shits out of me, if they have never had to make decisions as adults then how can they make them for others? If an arranged marriage fails it is never deemed the parents fault as far as I know.

The situation also keeps people infantilised mentally; it is no wonder the response to things like the Mohammad cartoons is so childish and like a temper tantrum, they don't know how to make a calm adult decision to combat it instead it is like a widespread childish temper tantrum. Add to that an infantilising religion which does much the same with god making all the moves in people's heads, it is no wonder they have issues in questioning and bettering morals and social norms.

To be honest I don't sometimes feel like there is a great deal of love in such households and if there is it is conditional not unconditional. If you don't know how to love yourself how can you love others fully? Part of loving yourself is being proud of your decisions and their results, if you don't make the decisions how can you have this? If you base your self-esteem on others approval then it is hard to be happy on your own and you can't then love yourself and know how to treat others fabulously; "do unto others as you would like to be done by".

Anyway that is my 2 cents.
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Reply #58 - July 23, 2014, 10:22 AM

welcome bro,

i feel you.. because currently i walk in your shoes.
well, after i came out, it was normal at first. my dad can accept me, my mother can accept me, all my friends can accept me, FYI i live in the biggest Muslim country (yet, moderate), Indonesia.

but then i saw my mother's face several days ago, i went to her house and i can't see her smile like i used to see. she asked me repeatedly "do you fast today? have you pray tarawih today? need anything for suhoor?" and of course i said no, and i told her again and again that i dont believe in any gods anymore, and that includes Allah, and that sadden her for quite a long time.

until yesterday i lied to her, i told her that i fast today and i did my tarawih prayer. it was easy for me to lie since i dont live with her (i live with my dad). Well after i said that, she express her happiness and said Alhamdulillah and finally i can see her smile again.

idk about this... i feel terrible each time i lied to her, but i think it was the best decision i made, since my mother's happiness is more important than anything. yet, its pathetic for me to live a double life like this.

for the first time in my life, ramadhan becomes a nightmare for me.
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Reply #59 - July 23, 2014, 11:16 AM

Quote from: Lilyesque on July 23, 2014, 06:39 AM
love... is conditional not unconditional.

My sisters and I took our parents' slightly old-fashioned English expectations, shredded them, trampled on them and threw them to the four winds.

They loved us unconditionally.

Then a funny thing happened: bits of those shredded certainties knitted themselves into something different to, but broadly consistent with, their original certainties.

Give a bird its wings, and it may just fly back to you.

(Apologies for this gnomic tripe. I am drunk after having loaded five tons of clay subsoil onto a truck.)
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