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 Topic: split from cat stevens thread

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  • split from cat stevens thread
     OP - April 27, 2014, 08:31 PM

    ^

    You listen to his music?  

    I dunno even if he makes great music I just couldn't listen to it if I didn't like the artist behind it. He did support the death fatwa against salman rushdie.....

    it's the same reason I don't listen to mos def the rapper. he might be a good rapper but i coudn't listen to his music since I don't like him as a person.


    You don't like Mos Def as a person? Why? Just because he's "Muslim"? Or did he say some fundamentalist shit?

    He has definately got some cool songs and he's a pretty smart guy. I think he just pays lip service to Islam for the counter culture identity and doesn't think too deeply about it.
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #1 - April 28, 2014, 02:11 AM

    He's one of those nutjobs that thinks 9/11 was an inside job and he promotes other similar conspiracy theories.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #2 - April 28, 2014, 03:06 AM

    Cant stand mos def either, that segment on meyer basically put me off him. 

    He probably think the Illuminating are coming to get him any min now.

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #3 - April 28, 2014, 05:00 AM

     
    He's one of those nutjobs that thinks 9/11 was an inside job and he promotes other similar conspiracy theories.



    huh how can it be other than an inside job, as if they would allow several aeroplanes to go undetected on US soil and then take different flight paths into gov buildings, flight paths only go undetected when they momentarily enter into another countries air space..

    Cat stevens has a beautiful residential islamic school in leicestershire i stayed there in my fundamentalist muslim days for a convention, the talks were about how to spread islam by performing dawah to the down and out criminals in prisons  Huh? I didnt agree with that technique,  oh and how to spread islam by having lots of children..   :/   nice..

  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #4 - April 28, 2014, 07:40 AM


    huh how can it be other than an inside job, as if they would allow several aeroplanes to go undetected on US soil and then take different flight paths into gov buildings, flight paths only go undetected when they momentarily enter into another countries air space..


    What?
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #5 - April 28, 2014, 07:54 AM

    8:14: Flight 11 fails to heed air traffic controller's instruction to climb to 35,000 feet.

    8:21: Flight 11's transponder signal is turned off, but can still be tracked via primary radar by Boston Center. (Prior to the 9/11 Commission's report, news organizations reported this time as 8:13 or immediately thereafter.)

    8:25: Boston Center flight controllers alert other flight control centers regarding Flight 11. NORAD is not yet alerted.

    8:34: Dan Bueno from Boston Center notifies the tower controller at Otis Air National Guard Base at Cape Cod of the hijacking of Flight 11. The controller directs Bueno to contact Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS), the northeast sector of NORAD.[6] The controller then notifies Otis Operations Center that a call from NEADS might be coming.[7] Two F-15 pilots begin to suit up.[8]

    8:37: Flight 175 confirms sighting of hijacked Flight 11 to flight controllers, 10 miles (16 km) to its south.

    8:37:52: Boston Center control notifies NEADS of the hijacking of Flight 11, the first notification received by NORAD that Flight 11 had been hijacked. The controller requests military help to intercept the jetliner.

    8:42 to 8:46 (approx.): Flight 175 is hijacked.

    8:46: Two F-15 fighter jets are ordered to scramble from Otis Air National Guard Base in Massachusetts, intended to intercept Flight 11. Because Flight 11's transponder is off, the pilots do not know the location of their target. NEADS spends the next several minutes watching their radar screens in anticipation of Flight 11 returning a radar contact.8:50: NEADS is notified that a plane has struck the World Trade Center as they continue to try to locate the flight on radar.

    8:50 to 8:54 (approx.): Flight 77 is hijacked.

    8:51: A flight controller at the FAA's New York Center notices that Flight 175 had changed its transponder code twice four minutes earlier; he tries to contact the flight.

    8:52: The F-15s at Otis Air National Guard Base are airborne. Still lacking an intercept vector to Flight 11 (and not aware that it has already crashed), they are sent to military controlled airspace off Long Island and ordered to remain in a holding pattern until between 9:09 and 9:13.
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #6 - April 28, 2014, 09:28 AM

    I don't know how society has such a high distrust of scientific work, hence the rejection of a scientific consensus. I'm not saying one should blindly follow what others say, but some of the statistics are shocking to say the least. It becomes increasingly odd when one realizes how relatively few cases of scientific misconduct there are and the way the scientific method and research works in quickly exposing any fraudulent papers.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/21/faith-in-scientists_n_4481487.html
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #7 - April 28, 2014, 10:51 AM

    still,  it probs could be an insider job, just my opinion, anyways thats an ollllld yawnful debate about conspiracies etc i will leave it be..  : /    : )

    xxxxx
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #8 - April 28, 2014, 11:03 AM

    Suki,

    Well, the first reason you thought it was an insider job before isn't on the table anymore, and it took only a second of googling to find that, so I suspect many of the other reasons you think it could be an insider job could be debunked with a little bit of research. Actually, this is an excellent place that compiles what's true and what's false (and what has yet to be verified), and will show their sources: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/rumors.asp

    Anyway, won't make you debate about it if you don't want to, but I've said it before to you and I'll say it again: you don't seem like you get your information from very reliable sources. There's no reason for you to just believe whatever you read, you seem like a smart lady. Do a little research, do a little homework, and, when you hear a claim made by a conspiracy theorist, you should go and independently verify that claim before you believe them. A lot of the time, you'll find that they're being deceptive, or that they didn't do their research, either. There's a reason that conspiracy theorists are in the vast minority of people with knowledge and education on the matter at hand.

    It's no skin off my back if you hold these opinions, but I see no sense in believing wild theories that have been debunked a long time ago. Just a thought, suki, in case you have free time on your hands.

  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #9 - April 28, 2014, 11:15 AM

    About this whole conspiracy theory. I think it's pretty clear that the people who hijacked those planes were Islamists who did it for religious/political reasons as stated by themselves. I see no basis whatsoever for the whole thing being staged. However, there has been a more "moderate" proposal that "someone" knew about the terrorist plan, but let it happen because of various political reasons. Personally, I don't have an opinion. But given the fact that there was an eye witness (who mysteriously died from unknown causes a week after he went public) who heard explosions from the basement or whatever, I can understand why people are questioning the official story. There are other facts that makes me not dismiss those who say that perhaps the official story isn't the whole complete truthful story, even though I have no interest in forming a definite opinion. It's time consuming and pointless, from my perspective Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #10 - April 28, 2014, 11:16 AM

    Cant stand mos def either, that segment on meyer basically put me off him.  

    He probably think the Illuminating are coming to get him any min now.


    What is " that segment on meyer"?
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #11 - April 28, 2014, 11:22 AM

    But given the fact that there was an eye witness (who mysteriously died from unknown causes a week after he went public) who heard explosions from the basement or whatever, I can understand why people are questioning the official story.


    I get what you're saying, but I have learned that sometimes coincidences happen and they tend to be inconveniently placed around something that gains international scrutiny.

    I have extremely personal experience with something that wound up being one of the biggest "conspiracy theories" in the world right now, and I know with complete certainty that this was not a conspiracy in any way shape or form. That being said, I do see that there were little oddities on the scale of the one you mentioned surrounding this event that, if I hadn't known better myself, might have made me think that something may not have been right if I heard it presented to me by someone with a cunning argument.

    So I totally understand why some people might doubt these events in some way, too, but I have gained an appreciation for the fact that weird coincidences do happen, and you will find them when you look for them.
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #12 - April 28, 2014, 11:27 AM

    You can look into any event in history and probably find coincidences.
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #13 - April 28, 2014, 11:31 AM

    So I totally understand why some people might doubt these events in some way, too, but I have gained an appreciation for the fact that weird coincidences do happen, and you will find them when you look for them.


    Right, and I totally agree with you on this one. I just think that a sound dose of skepticism is always good, as long as it doesn't cross the border of conspiracy Roll Eyes. We shouldn't take everything the media or government feeds us with at face value without criticism. 

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #14 - April 28, 2014, 11:32 AM

    Yes, reasonable doubt is good, but unfortunately your average theorist departed from reasonable long ago...
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #15 - April 28, 2014, 12:00 PM

    I appreciate what you say Lua but please don't make it personal..  i'm entitled to my own opinion without chance of being ridiculed..   Ive had personal experiences too that have formed my judgement, related to certain major islamic events, and my private life was invaded at every level for many, many years.. Anyways i didnt intend to debate this, sorry i'm not very good at it really,  was just a quick statement   : )

    much peace xooo


     
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #16 - April 28, 2014, 12:07 PM

    ^ Didn't mean to ridicule you, sorry it came off that way.

    I'm not so sure what you're saying about your private life being invaded. Maybe I was unclear about what I was talking about? I just know that many of the things you've said on here were things that have been debunked a long time ago, or that were just not true, like some of the things you've said about science. You're not the one responsible for writing the "science articles"--those are the ones who I may ridicule--so it's not meant to be a personal thing.

    I do think that you would get better information if you were a bit more discerning and made sure to verify the things you hear or read. That's all. It isn't anything personal, it's just a suggestion for how to go about getting more accurate information to base your conclusions on.
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #17 - April 28, 2014, 12:11 PM

    lol thats still personal and patronising..   but never mind
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #18 - April 28, 2014, 12:13 PM

    Suki, I don't think anyone is trying to ridicule you, at least I have no intention to do so.

    I have no desire to debate this as well however I will say one final thing:

    Just something to think about:

    Would you rather follow the opinion of the majority of scientists and engineers, who's expertise are in this field, and whose views are backed by evidence (which is what you should follow)?

    or

    Would you rather follow the opinion of conspiracy theorists, most who have little knowledge of science, who may have ulterior motives, and whose arguments are evidence-less and have been thoroughly debunked?
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #19 - April 28, 2014, 12:18 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVoChSTlKo

    yap..that was 1989.. sorry man ., You may be good singer  but you wasted your life man.,  sorry  Well that is what happens to those who don't use their brain

    allah says in the book .,  


    nd...and  there is whole industry on that 9/11 conspiracy

    Well here AMRIKA juice appears to be a better conspirators than allah doll of  100s  of millions of Muslim folks who pray it day & night...  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • CAT Steven alias Yussuf Islam
     Reply #20 - April 28, 2014, 12:18 PM

    lol thats still personal and patronising..   but never mind


    Suki, I am not trying to be patronizing by telling you that some of the things you've said on here were false. If I recall correctly, we demonstrated to you why they were false. And I know you didn't just make up some of these falsehoods; you found them from sources that were not credible. That's not your fault, but there is undeniably room for improvement.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but all opinions are not created equal. Nor is it necessary for people to hold in their valid criticism of one's opinion to avoid hurting the feelings of the opinion holder. No one would ever learn anything if we did that.

    In the interest of having an opinion with facts and substance behind it, I would advise you or anyone to seek out reputable sources and to fact check to form strong conclusions. I'm not sure how this is necessarily offensive to you, but, anyway, none intended.
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #21 - April 28, 2014, 02:48 PM

    the conspiracy theories have been comprehensively debunked

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14665953

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/05/9-11-conspiracy-theories-debunked

    best to move on from this subject to be honest


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #22 - April 29, 2014, 05:11 AM

    Uhumm what makes ya'll think that i havent read every piece of literature on this ? ?   : )   I don't really care whether it was a bunch of muslim idiots who did it or whether it was an inside gov job.. Point i was trying to make was that if it wasnt an inside job and it was actually a muslim group, i believe the us gov allowed it to happen anyway for other obvious reasons.. Thats my view on it..    and Lua i havent discussed any science on here except the theory that the heart has some kind of memory or brain, and thats not an old debunked science it's newish,  just hasnt been proven yet but as i recall you were quick to jump in on that one too and tell me that i need to rethink my thinkin lol.


    X
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #23 - April 29, 2014, 05:27 AM

    You need to write an autobiography. Seriously.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #24 - April 29, 2014, 05:31 AM

     My lifes reallllly boring these days..  may aswell be a plant..   Cry

    xooo
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #25 - April 29, 2014, 05:34 AM

    Suki,

    I sure hope you haven't read every piece of literature on this, because there's an awful lot out there and that would take a million years.

    Anyway, the reason that we think that in any case is because, like Billy said, they have been "thoroughly debunked." Every last claim that a theorist has come with to propose that it was an inside job has been shown to be false or irrelevant. Meanwhile, there is a huge abundance of evidence against the theories. So if someone opts in favor of believing the path with no evidence or substance [...] In your case, I believe you simply have been looking at the wrong sources. Edit: It occurred to me after I wrote this that the simple answer would have been to say that your original reason for thinking it was an inside job in this thread was debunked with the quickest and laziest of google searches, so that also contributes to my feeling that you haven't really read up on it too much from credible sources. wacko

    Your personal experience that you've described is a shame, but I don't see how it gives you any more insight into the matter. I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but I just don't see any relevance.

    Finally, I am thinking you're right, I can only recall one time where I/we criticized "science news" from you specifically; the other times have been in other subjects, and it was that memory in the heart/gut/whatever thing. The way you're still talking about it as "newish" science news kind of concerns me. We showed you the article that the direct quotes were from, and it was a perfect textbook example of a sham and garbage article. It had no credibility and no truth to it whatsoever.

    And, it was laughably false: in addition to citing a doctor and author who didn't exist as the source of the findings, the fictional scientist's name was the same as an old author who wrote thriller novels about other parts of the body retaining memory. If you're still wondering why I think you need to be more discerning with your sources, please go back and read that thread. We showed you precisely why it could not be trusted. Your "news" could not have been any more transparently false. It's not new science. It's a hoax.

    Anyway, it's up to you, Suki. It's up to you whether or not you want to believe in things that have no evidence or that have been debunked. It's up to you if you want to get offended by me saying that your sources so far have led you totally and completely astray. I meant what I said, though; I do reckon you're a smart person with at least some ability to distinguish between fact and nonsense, because you got out of Islam, and that's no small intellectual feat. I'll think it a pretty big shame if you insist on continuing to consult and believe these nonsense sources to form your opinions. But it's up to you.
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #26 - April 29, 2014, 09:02 AM

    There's many sources out there that discuss the heart/brain/memory theory, it's something i am interested in and think holds some kind of validity not just for the brain but with all types of matter, it is still an unproven science with regards to the heart, i didn't provide that link you talk of....   yep i'm not a scientist like yourself and may get things wrong all the time but you shouldn't let it bother you so much and allow ordinary folks some space to free think..     

    peace x
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #27 - April 29, 2014, 09:31 AM

    The only time I have come across the "heart has a memory" thingy, is when we discussed where our "aql" or "consciousness" resides during aqeedah lessons. Well, he said that according to Islam, with no differences of opinions and with very clear evidence from the texts, our consciousness and "self" resides in our hearts. Which simply isn't true. Whether you believe in a soul or not, it's pretty clear that our consciousness in found in our brains. That's where all the fun stuff happens. So in order to just brush any doubts about this from the students, the teacher very briefly commented that some "scientific research" has come up with new findings how heart transplant patients have adopted characteristics or whatever from the donator. "Only the future will tell us what more scientific findings will support what we already know".

    Anyway, I don't know why I shared this, but it's a fun fact maybe Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #28 - April 29, 2014, 10:35 AM

    There's many sources out there that discuss the heart/brain/memory theory, it's something i am interested in and think holds some kind of validity not just for the brain but with all types of matter, it is still an unproven science with regards to the heart, i didn't provide that link you talk of....   yep i'm not a scientist like yourself and may get things wrong all the time but you shouldn't let it bother you so much and allow ordinary folks some space to free think..     


    Many sources, but not a single one--and I did search for quite a bit at the time to give you the benefit of the doubt--was even remotely reputable. Some just plain built off of the hoax article. I know you didn't provide it, but IIRC in places you were repeating it verbatim. It is a cool idea and I would love to be proven wrong, but I've found not a shred of evidence, old or "new," "proven" or "unproven" to support what it is that you're saying is science.

    Anyway, this has nothing to do with being a scientist or not being a scientist. I bet if you ask any person on here whether or not they care if they are getting their facts from reputable sources, they will say yes. And I make mistakes, too, and have been fooled by less than reliable sources/articles/et cetera before. Everyone has. But once you have it pointed out to you that you've got your facts wrong, you have a choice to either be offended that it was brought up, or to learn from it and be more discerning next time. I'd like to think that if I make a mistake, especially on here, I'll have two or three people telling me that I'm wrong and precisely how wrong I am. I don't necessarily like being called out, but I like to walk around unwittingly saying false things even less!

    And, finally, I've never tried to say that you're not allowed to think whatever it is you want to think. It was simply well-meaning advice, because I've seen you have this problem more than a couple times now, and I have not been the only one pointing it out to you.

    Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. But your opinion is not entitled to protection from criticism and scrutiny. I know that this makes sense to you in other circumstances, because you have no problem coming down pretty hard on the ideas and opinions of Muslims. If you aren't going to fact-check and verify the credibility of your sources, you may have to grow a thick skin, and be ready to not take critiques of your methods or your conclusions as a personal assault.

    Anyway, I will say again that it was never meant to be an attack on your person, and I'm sorry you took it that way.
  • split from cat stevens thread
     Reply #29 - April 29, 2014, 10:59 AM

    I'm not an athiests so i still hold many beliefs that many here won't agree with, you all seem to be athiest..  I don't mind debates, i enjoy them very much, i have had critisism from many on here, i dont care,  but you are the only one whos made it personal, go read over your posts again, unlike the others you don't debate whether this or that theory is wrong etc, you pick at the poster instead, well you have with me anyway, it's very arrogant..


    Im done here..   this is very silly..


    X
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