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Theme Changer

 Topic: Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"

 (Read 2174 times)
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  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     OP - April 24, 2014, 08:27 AM

    So I don't know if this has been posted before (even though I remember seeing part of the debate in some other thread about something else) but here it goes. So I watched the very interesting debate "Is religion good for children" on The Big Question, which I found very interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNNkYRjrIww
    Personally, I think it depends on how you teach your child "religion", from my own experience there are numerous ways of handling the issues of faith and bringing up your child. This has become even more clear now when I see that the way I, as a Muslim, brought up my child, is very different from the way my ex wants to raise her on his own, while the way I raise my child now is not that very different from before if I really look at the big picture. And I'll tell you how.

    Personally, I never introduced the "fairy tale" parts of the faith to my child, if I ever taught her something about faith it was about right and wrong. But even then, I never had this dogmatic approach or pointing fingers kind of way of doing it. I made it very clear that there would always be people who do or think differently, even though there were some universal principles like being truthful and honest, generous and kind towards other people, being polite and respectful of everyone and so forth. Even in matters of "haram/halal", I never talked about it as being "sinful" or "prohibited", instead I focused on what other things we could do instead of that particular practice. I now experience that this is not how my ex is thinking at all, part of his method is the very stereotypical idea you have of what religious people usually do; shaming and frightening children with hell, punishment for sins and so forth. It's frightening because I see the difference in my own child what it can do to a young person.

    That's also why I find it utterly despicable how that Christian guy said that he will give his children a "choice", but that he must inform them of the "consequences" of such a choice. In all honesty, I think most people would not see that as a choice at all, but as intimidation and black-mailing someone into believing in something while brainwashing that person to only know that particular set of beliefs as "truth". How is that a choice?

    In general, my answer would be no, I don't think religion is ever good for children. Whatever good comes out of religion can be given to the child without the extra baggage. A baggage that actually in my view almost nullifies the "good parts". As many of you have mentioned, and what I've gathered from other ex-religious people (in particular ex-JW), the religion upbringing during childhood almost entirely has a negative impact on them as adults.

    Am I too critical and harsh, perhaps even intolerant, or how do you look at it?

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Religion and children
     Reply #1 - April 24, 2014, 09:06 AM

    There are certain aspects that some would argue can be beneficial. A child's grief isn't the same as an adults. If they lose a family member or a friend or a beloved pet, you can tell them about a special place they go where they're happy. Or that they become stars or something else. It can be used to comfort. I don't really see that as a bad thing. Telling them about hell or that there's a man in the sky watching them 24/7 is something I find perverse, but making a child feel better after experiencing loss is something I don't really have a problem with.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion and children
     Reply #2 - April 24, 2014, 09:40 AM

    I think I watched this recently after reading an article on here--wasn't the young man with the grey sweater in the front a former CEMB member who passed away?
  • Religion and children
     Reply #3 - April 24, 2014, 10:05 AM

    Yes, I think his forum name was mchawking.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Religion and children
     Reply #4 - April 24, 2014, 11:35 AM

    The golden rule is valuable, i would regard it a fundamental teaching for children, helps them recognise morality, consciousness, empathy, tolerance, love and so forth.. It's at the core of every religion and philosophy, so i don't think a religion is necessary, especially without this.
  • Religion and children
     Reply #5 - April 24, 2014, 11:42 AM

    It's pretty odd that all religious people on TV all of a sudden become super liberal and tolerant of everything their religion says the should NOT tolerate. Where are all those religious people (especially Muslims) IRL?

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #6 - April 24, 2014, 02:09 PM

    Yes, I think his forum name was mchawking.


    How sad. He did a great job here. The guy sitting in the row behind him is frankly quite scary. wacko

    Quote
    It's pretty odd that all religious people on TV all of a sudden become super liberal and tolerant of everything their religion says the should NOT tolerate. Where are all those religious people (especially Muslims) IRL?


    It's not just on TV. I notice a lot of bloggers who are trying to be tolerant and even supportive of the things that Islam spent a lot of time complaining about. A while back, I happened across this popular blog by an American woman turned convert and Saudi wife who kind of references being irritated with her husband when he used to criticize homosexuals. And that's a really nice thing to do and a nice position to have, and I used to be just like that as a convert, but nowadays I just don't even understand how they (or I) ever made these two ends meet. Now it just seems like absolute delusion, and that delusion is getting popular. I'm sure in due time we'll start running into people like this in real life.
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #7 - April 24, 2014, 02:21 PM

    There are certain aspects that some would argue can be beneficial. A child's grief isn't the same as an adults. If they lose a family member or a friend or a beloved pet, you can tell them about a special place they go where they're happy. Or that they become stars or something else. It can be used to comfort. I don't really see that as a bad thing. Telling them about hell or that there's a man in the sky watching them 24/7 is something I find perverse, but making a child feel better after experiencing loss is something I don't really have a problem with.

    Why are you assuming this is different for kids and adults? IMO adults mostly use religion the same way.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #8 - April 24, 2014, 02:26 PM

    Quote
    making a child feel better after experiencing loss is something I don't really have a problem with.


    Why are you assuming this is different for kids and adults? IMO adults mostly use religion the same way.


    Right. I know a good handful of people who lost their children and I see that faith props them up quite often. I have no interest in trying to challenge religion under those circumstances.

    For children, I bet there are other ways to make them feel better, like to prompt them to look at the positives and to remember lost pets/loved ones/etc fondly and appreciate life. Real religion gets complicated fast.
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #9 - April 24, 2014, 03:55 PM

    My lad was asking if he could eat ham again today. I told him we didn't eat ham in this house. I asked him if he knew what animal ham came from and he said 'pig'. I told him mummy say's 'the pig is a dirty animal so we shouldn't eat it' and that I said to mummy 'that sounds like a good idea'. I haven't got the desire to bring in religious reasons yet, I'm afraid I'd only confuse him, he's only 5.
    Finally he answered by saying that 'I don't agree' and then started teasing me by saying 'what would you do if I sneaked out to the shop and bought some anyway'. If only he knew I actually have no problems with it myself.  Roll Eyes
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #10 - April 25, 2014, 08:42 AM

    ^How did he have ham before? I feel like I was born knowing pig was a no-no. I always thought that’s how it was for all Muslim kids. It must be tough having to feed your kids Islamic BS when you don’t even believe in it yourself. Have a hug far away hug
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #11 - April 25, 2014, 08:51 AM

    Why are you assuming this is different for kids and adults? IMO adults mostly use religion the same way.

    Basing it on my own memories of childhood and seeing it in children and adults today. Children don't have the coping methods adults have.
    For children, I bet there are other ways to make them feel better, like to prompt them to look at the positives and to remember lost pets/loved ones/etc fondly and appreciate life. Real religion gets complicated fast.

    Yup.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #12 - April 25, 2014, 08:56 AM

    Thanks A-A, his minders at day care have accidentally given it to him in the past. Unknown to most of them we're 'supposed to be a Muslim family but we keep it low profile. We did ask them not to give him ham before  but they either forgot or the person on duty didn't know. Either way he's had the sweet salted taste of the swine and liked it. Smiley
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #13 - April 25, 2014, 09:07 AM

    How did the missus react when she found out they'd given him ham?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #14 - April 25, 2014, 11:33 AM

    ^
    Not happy but not the type to complain or go up and have a big rant at them about it. She just told him that he's not to eat it again if it's offered to him. Still it's not as bad as some of our friends kids of similar age, who would be on the liberal side of Islam, they were coming out with lines like 'all muslims are my friends'. They were saying this in front of non muslims adults but fortunately the parents have since corrected them on this as it was quite cringeworthy at the time.
  • Religion and children: "is religion good for children?"
     Reply #15 - April 25, 2014, 11:34 AM

    So in short he doesn't have the same level of indoctrination (yet) as a lot of other kids raised muslim his age. He hasn't heard us use the word Allah but is familiar with the term God, as much from school as from us.
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