'Jihadist plot to take over Birmingham schools'

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'Jihadist plot to take over Birmingham schools'
Reply #90 - July 01, 2014, 10:35 PM

Quote from: David on June 30, 2014, 11:16 PM
So good I tweeted it. In inverted commas, of course.

Well, thank you. I am pleased that I make sense. Please feel free to claim it as your own if you wish. No copyright!!

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Reply #91 - July 01, 2014, 10:38 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on June 30, 2014, 11:23 PM
Tweet this too!

Thank you too Lily. Would it be rude to ask where you tweeted it (you don't have to tell me if you don't want to or give away your identity, I fully understand) , would be nice to see the replies, good or bad. If you would rather not, just let me know the reaction.

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Reply #92 - July 01, 2014, 11:02 PM

I didn't tweet it Adey. ^^^ Was asking other member to do so.
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Reply #93 - July 01, 2014, 11:17 PM

Thanks for the thumbs up anyway.

But it's true though isn't it. There are churches, mosques and temples to go to freely, where they talk about whatever supernatural nonsense they want all day long, but that isn't enough, its got to be in school time, science classes, council meetings, and so on, as well.
Why don't they just go to church!! No brainer in my opinion......either that or get up 15mins earlier, wash face, eat brekkie, brush teeth, get dressed, quick pray, catch bus . Aren't these guys supposed to be devoted or what??!!

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Reply #94 - July 01, 2014, 11:30 PM

yup.

I do think there has to be some kind of secular structure to provide a centre to the community. With the decline of churches and church attendance I do think communities don't commune as much. Definitely think the make-up of the school should be mixed up tho in inner city and town areas where there is a domination of one group or another. Make people mix! This isn't possible or needed in smaller towns and villages.
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Reply #95 - July 02, 2014, 12:11 AM

I hear ya Lily!

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Reply #96 - July 03, 2014, 06:05 AM

Trojan Horse: schools erect a straw man

Quote
One of the oldest tactics by wrongdoers and their allies is to ignore the actual allegations made against them and instead misrepresent the charges as ones they can truthfully deny. With grinding obviousness, that’s precisely what the “Trojan Horse” schools in Birmingham are doing now.

In a letter published in (where else) the Guardian, a group of the schools’ supporters announce the launch of the “Putting Birmingham Schoolkids First” campaign to “challenge the false and divisive allegation that [Trojan Horse] is a problem of systematic radicalisation, extremism or terrorism.”

The latter is a particularly brazen straw man. I think we can all agree that none of the schools ever taught their pupils how to make bombs and that no one in Birmingham became a terrorist as a result of a segregated biology lesson. But these were, of course, things which no one ever alleged for a second. Nor, in fact, did the Government reports which will result next month in the removal of the schools’ leadership accuse them of systematically promoting radicalisation or extremism.

The letter continues: “The central allegation, that there was an organised plot to radicalise schoolchildren in a handful of Birmingham schools, remains unproven.” Hold on – you said it was “false” only the previous sentence! And it wasn’t the “central allegation” either.

As we have documented, there is clear evidence of extremism at some of the Trojan Horse schools. According to on-the-record testimony, the man who is now (until next month, anyway) head of Park View, Mozz Hussain, described the US in assemblies as the “evil in the world” and the “cause of all famine.” The Arabic teacher at Oldknow, Asif Khan, led children in anti-Christian chanting. An al-Qaeda-sympathising preacher, Shady al-Suleiman, was invited to Park View on November 28 2013. (The school’s assistant head, Lee Donaghy, told MPs that they did not know of his extremist views, something which takes about thirty seconds to find on Google.)

But extremism is not the same as terrorism; and as we’ve also said, extremism was only one strand of what went on at Park View, Oldknow and the rest. The real central finding, in the words of Sir Michael Wilshaw, chief inspector of schools, was of an “organised campaign” targeting schools in Birmingham to impose a “narrow, faith-based ideology”, with the same people “highly influential across several of the schools”.

A “culture of fear and intimidation” had developed in several of the schools, with “headteachers, including those with a proud record of raising standards… marginalised or forced out of their jobs”. There had been a “breakdown in trust” between staff and governors, who had “sought to make changes to the curriculum on the basis of their own personal beliefs”, with girls and boys “not treated equally”, music in one school removed from the curriculum against pupils’ wishes, and the children’s experiences “restricted”, making them “vulnerable to segregation and emotional dislocation from wider society”.

No reference whatever is made to these charges in the “putting Birmingham schoolkids first” letter, presumably because they are rather harder to refute.

The campaign held a public meeting last week at which, by all accounts, a number of even sillier straw men were erected. Sir Tim Brighouse, the former Birmingham education chief on whose watch the problems started, sent a video message saying that “we are in the middle of a fever that equates being a Muslim with extremism.” Who outside the ranks of the far right has said this?

There were also the routine charges of “Islamophobia,” an “anti-Muslim agenda” and the “victimisation of the Muslim community.” This last was made by a councillor called Jess Phillips who fights for the rights of women – except, it seems, the right of women not to be made to “sit at the back of the class or round the sides” at these schools.

A number of other Birmingham councillors were at the meeting and the straw man tactic has also been much favoured by Birmingham council. Its initial response to the Trojan Horse letter was to refer it to the police anti-terrorist squad, even though it contained no allegation of terrorism – again presumably so it could be dismissed. Watch out for a similar tactic in the report of the council's Kershaw inquiry into the affair.

“Communities across Birmingham now believe that their children's educational potential and wellbeing is being threatened by politicians, who wish to be seen as ‘tough’ on Muslims,” says Hands off Birmingham Schools. How, I wonder, do the signatories know what “communities across Birmingham” now believe? Have they asked them – or has the assumption been made, as it was by the schools, that Muslim parents, unlike any other sorts of parents, “must” want a narrowly conservative, religious education for their children?

The more anyone has to play these kinds of games, the clearer it becomes that their cause is in deep trouble.

PS: Perhaps the most nauseating part of the meeting last week was when even a five-year-old boy called Ben was lifted up to the rostrum to read out yet another straw-man argument (see video above). "Some people come from different countries to this country, and that's OK," he said. "And whatever they want to eat, and whatever they want to wear, and whether they want to play or not, that's OK as well. But it's not OK for mean governments to stop them from doing all that stuff." It went down a storm with the crowd – but nobody's ever suggested stopping people from wearing or eating anything, or forcing them to play. More importantly, it risked looking like a textbook example of the kind of child manipulation that this whole saga has been about. How many 5-year-olds do you know that spontaneously talk about "mean governments?"

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #97 - July 18, 2014, 04:01 PM

Trojan Horse report now out: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/17/birmingham-schools-inquiry-hardline-sunni-islam-trojan-horse

Quote
Clarke denies the report is Islamophobic, saying the evidence shows a group of governors and senior teachers represented a form of Muslim extremism rejected by most Muslims in east Birmingham.

He argues it was likely that most parents did not approve of the culture imposed in the schools, but they "did not have the confidence to argue against the articulate, forceful activists who seek to impose their views, for fear of being branded as disloyal to their faith or community".

He claims the offending ideology "manifests itself as the imposition of an aggressively separatist and intolerant agenda incompatible with full participation in a plural secular democracy".

It rejects not only the secular and other religions, but other strains of Islamic belief: "It goes beyond the social conservatism practised in some faith schools which may be consistent with universal human rights and respectful of other communities. It appears to be a deliberate attempt to convert secular state schools into exclusive faith schools in all but name."

He says there is "very clear evidence that young people are being encouraged to accept unquestionably a particular hardline strand of Sunni Islam that raises concerns about their vulnerability to radicalisation in the future. Essentially the ideology revealed by this investigation is an intolerant and politicised form of extreme social conservatism that ultimately seeks to control all Muslims. In its separatist assertions and attempts to subvert normal processes it amounts to what is often described as Islamism.

"The agenda, but not the tactics, involved stem from an international movement to increase the role of Islam in education." Two organisations identified by Clarke as being behind the movement are the Muslim Council of Britain and the Association of Muslim Schools – UK.

Which side are you on?
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Reply #98 - July 18, 2014, 04:29 PM

It was a bad situation. there was a lot of denial about it.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Reply #99 - July 18, 2014, 05:11 PM

"did not have the confidence to argue against the articulate, forceful activists who seek to impose their views, for fear of being branded as disloyal to their faith or community".

Sadly, in almost everything Muslims do, this is the case.
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Reply #100 - July 18, 2014, 05:50 PM

Quote from: zeca on July 18, 2014, 04:01 PM
Trojan Horse report now out: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/17/birmingham-schools-inquiry-hardline-sunni-islam-trojan-horse

He argues it was likely that most parents did not approve of the culture imposed in the schools, but they "did not have the confidence to argue against the articulate, forceful activists who seek to impose their views, for fear of being branded as disloyal to their faith or community".

And most of those articulate, forceful activists of London Islam come from or related to hijab niqab burqa london.org

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc0QTILt-5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HShvoQylXeI

Any Muslim parents going against these guys above and arguing against them means getting branded as apostates of Islam to all their neighbors with in no time. Unless these parents who work their butts to put food, roof and cloths on their children have truck loads money and support of some Govt., they can never talk against those whom you see in those videos.. that Maajid Nawaz, understands mentality of Islamic heroes and he left everything to fight them out politically..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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Reply #101 - July 27, 2014, 03:45 AM

The Trojan horse plot shows we must clarify religion’s place in state schools

Quote
Isolationist and xenophobic tendencies must be challenged robustly and not accepted as part of faith or cultural practice

In my youth I was a member of a UK organisation that called itself “The Movement to Reform the Muslim Youth”. Back then, we regrettably had an extremist mindset that was characterised by dreams of global domination for Islam. These would involve the re-establishment of a caliphate and the enforcing of a narrow, sectarian, xenophobic and puritanical theology.

This organisation went on to become Jimas, which has since come a long way and now embraces an ecumenical and inclusive philosophy. However, it also gave birth to a more reactionary offshoot that maintained the ultra-conservative Islamism and the original name of the organisation, led by Tahir Alam from Birmingham until its closure in 1995.

I have not had much contact with Alam in the past 20 years, occasionally bumping into him when he wore his “Muslim educationalist” hat, which included him serving as chair of the education committee of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB). I am not familiar with his personal, intellectual or religious journey over the past two decades. As readers may be aware, Alam is allegedly now at the centre of what is referred to as the “Trojan horse” plot.

None of the revelations that have come to light in recent weeks as a result of investigations into the plot surprise me. These include the findings in Peter Clarke’s draft report, leaked to the Guardian, which found strong evidence of an Islamist agenda ruining a small number of schools in Birmingham. The methods are familiar to me, as is the mindset that inspires them.

Clarke’s draft report found that some state schools in Birmingham had, through pressure applied by certain teachers and governors, adopted a puritanical approach towards a few issues. This involved forbidding any mention of condoms or contraceptive pills, which is bizarre since these are routinely used by devout Muslim couples. It also extended to banning some art and playing musical instruments even though the Islamic tradition is diverse and has a long history of debate about, and expression of, artistic and musical forms.

It was also found that teachers were not explaining biological evolution in an appropriate manner. Evolution is no longer “just a theory”, as some assert without understanding how the term “theory” is used in scientific discourse. It is now accepted as a scientifically proven fact by scientists worldwide with few exceptions. It is probably no coincidence that a senior overseas cleric issued a fatwa against evolution at a major Birmingham mosque as recently as December 2010.

As well as exposing, and hopefully dismantling, a hardline Islamist plot to influence state schools in Birmingham, this whole affair has also bought the role of religion in the education sector into sharp focus. With this in mind, we need to clarify the place of religion in state schools. For example, is it reasonable to expect a school with a majority Muslim population to hold Christian prayers during assembly, daily worship apparently being a legal requirement? Should it offer Islamic prayer instead or different assemblies for pupils of different religious and non-religious backgrounds? Does modern religious diversity mean we do away with collective worship at school or adopt a multi-faith approach? Schools around the country regularly grapple with such issues.

There is also a need to amplify the internal Muslim debate about matters relating to education. The debate is currently characterised, on the one hand, by hardline voices, exemplified in a 2007 MCB report co-authored by Alam. This report said that pupils should be allowed to opt out of music lessons, often taking no account of the diversity of Muslim opinion. On the other hand, there is the more moderate and generally sensible report published in 2010 by British Muslims for Secular Democracy.

As a result of this unfortunate episode, we need to put measures in place to ensure that the teaching of religion in schools is objective, balanced and non-discriminatory, while all school activities and practices are inclusive and devoid of narrow religious or political influences. While state schools must remain sensitive to the cultural needs of all pupils, isolationist and xenophobic tendencies must be challenged robustly and not accepted as part of faith or cultural practice. Governance structures also need to be improved so that schools are more careful about whom they appoint. Extremists, even if they are non-violent, should not be allowed to work in schools or be governors, and attempts to impose puritanical agendas on schools in the public sector must not be allowed to happen again.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #102 - November 21, 2014, 10:06 AM

Quote
Muslim schools overly focused on Islamic themes - Ofsted

By Hannah Richardson
BBC News education reporter

21 November 2014 Last updated at 09:09

Pupils do not know the difference between Sharia and British law at a Muslim private school in east London, visited as part of six snap Ofsted inspections.

Inspectors said the curriculum at Mazahirul Uloom School, Tower Hamlets, focused only on Islamic themes.

Pupils here believed it was wrong to learn about other religions and were not taught art, music or drama.

Ofsted said all the schools focused too heavily on Islamic teachings.

Government sources have stressed there is no Trojan Horse-style plot to spread a conservative Muslim ethos here - as found at schools in Birmingham - but there are concerns that pupils are not protected from extremist views.

Quote
“Women stay at home and clean and look after the children”

Mazahirul Uloom students

Mazahirul Uloom is a small secondary boys' school that professes to teach the National Curriculum and Islamic Sciences, but inspectors found too much of the curriculum "focuses solely on Islamic themes" and judged it inadequate.

They also found pupils had a "narrow view" of women in society.

Some students told inspectors: "Women stay at home and clean and look after the children. They cook and pray and wait for us to come back from school with homework."

It also said there were no systems in place to check suitability of external speakers and that children were not safe because staff recruitment checks were not rigorous enough.

'Tolerance'
An emergency inspection of the 185-pupil boys' secondary Jammiatul Ummah found there were good opportunities to study and practise their Islamic faith but in other respects students were not provided with a broad and balanced curriculum. It was previously judged outstanding but has been downgraded to inadequate.

The report said: "The narrowness of the curriculum means that students' spiritual, moral, social and cultural education, in particular their understanding of the fundamental British values of democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance, is underdeveloped."

Students also lacked opportunities to learn about music and art, or to be creative in PE.

Ebrahim Academy, a secondary boys schools with 97 pupils, was also found to offer too narrow a curriculum. Ofsted said students were not prepared for life in modern Britain.

One member of staff told inspectors he had identified extremist views in his students' writing, but that he did not share these with leaders.

The reports follow a series of snap inspections at the schools in October and each school will be given an immediate action plan.

Two or three of the schools, all in Tower Hamlets, are said to be "more concerning" than others, but the reports share the sense that Islamic teachings take precedence of the rest of the curriculum

The publication comes a day after details leaked of a report on another school, Sir John Cass Foundation and Redcoat school, in Stepney, east London.

This is the only state and non-Muslim faith school in the group to be inspected as part of the same set of seven snap inspections and failed for not safeguarding and monitoring pupils adequately.

The report highlighted the segregation of boys and girls in indoor and outdoor play areas and the risk of extremism.

'No jurisdiction'
Tower Hamlets council said it could not comment until the reports for all the schools had been published.

But director of education Robert McCulloch-Graham said: "We note that of the schools inspected, only one is a publicly funded maintained school.

"As is common practice, we will work with the leadership of this school to address any issues identified by Ofsted.

"As a local education authority, we have no jurisdiction whatsoever over teaching and standards at independent faith schools. This is Ofsted's area of responsibility.

"We do, however, have responsibility for safeguarding all children in the borough and have always exercised our safeguarding duties to the full."

Independent schools, academies and free schools already have to adhere to the Independent School Standards (ISS), which demand that schools encourage pupils to "respect" British values.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30129645

Get rid of faith schools for god sake! This is obvious to me!
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Reply #103 - November 21, 2014, 11:49 AM

As expected.

I expect a more detailed inspection to come out as well as a Panorma investigation into these Muslim-only/Muslim majority schools.

Let's hear Maryam and Mehdi spin this one.

No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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Reply #104 - May 06, 2015, 07:45 AM

Trojan Horse: Headteacher received death threats for speaking out against homophobia

At least three schools had dead animals placed in their playgrounds

Quote
A headteacher has told how she had received death threats for speaking out against homophobia as part of a new campaign of intimidation in the wake of the Birmingham Trojan Horse affair.

Delegates at the National Association of Head Teachers' conference in Liverpool were told hard-line extremists were now conducting a campaign of intimidation outside schools - rather than through governing bodies.

In addition to the death threats, at least three schools were faced with dead animals being placed in their playgrounds.

Headteachers claimed the Government had not taken sufficient action to ensure that governors identified as a result of the Trojan Horse affairs faced investigation or permanent disbarment from holding office if found to be acting improperly. In particular, they wanted ministers to set up a database with details of governors who should not be allowed to hold office on it once they had been disbarred.

Sarah Hewitt-Clarkson, headteacher of Anderton Park primary school in Birmingham told the conference: "Trojan Horse has not gone away. Those of us who were involved we knew it was the tip of the iceberg. We still have dead animals hung on the school gates - dismembered cats in playgrounds.

"We have petitions outside schools objecting to teachers teaching against homophobia. We have death threats on Facebook, for example, towards me 'or any headteacher who teaches my children it's all right to be gay will be at the end of my shotgun'."

She added: "All the behaviour and comments we saw before are still there - so to have promises unbroken, not followed through are absolutely unhelpful, unsupportive and has left open gaps for certain individuals to start up again."

Ms Hewitt-Clarkson, who said the incidents had been reported to the police and the Home Office, said outside the conference centre: "You just have to get on with things. I presume the dead animals are just to intimidate people and make them fearful. It is very easy not to talk about these things - you may be fearful and maybe you don't want to draw attention to these things."

Headteachers said that around 100 teachers had been suspended and were being investigated as a result of evidence given to the Trojan Horse inquiry carried out by Peter Clarke, former head of the Metropolitan Police' anti-terrorism branch, at the behest of former Education Secretary Michael Gove - but no governors. Several had resigned as a result of the investigation into the affair.

Alison Marshall, Birmingham branch secretary of the NAHT, said: "We need to exert pressure to ensure all the recommendations are truly delivered not in a superficial way and certainly not watered down."

The recommendations included barring people from serving as governors for life if they had indulged in intimidatory tactics against headteachers or staff.

Ms Marshall added: "It is our members who are yet again giving evidence of appalling acts of radicalisation... Some of these members are truly broken and emotionally it's been painful."

Rob Kelsall, senior regional official of the NAHT for the area, added: "There have been attacks on headteachers in their own schools trying to challenge homophobia.

"We're very keen to move on from Trojan Horse but the door has been left open to allow a resurgence of activity - and some of they key operators are intimidating some of the heads who aren't necessarily going to be speaking out about this."

He added: "The buck stops with the Department for Education. The fact that not one of the Trojan Horse governors have had an exemption or banning order in place has enabled this to resurface."

Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, who was addressing the conference, said: "There is no place for extremism in schools and we are continuing to work to eliminate any form of extremism.

"We have taken action to remove people from schools who didn't follow British values. It involved a small number of people and they were very determined."

She said she understood some of the governors involved had faced investigations.

She was particularly critical of the threats against teachers opposing homophobia, saying that "tolerance and respect" were a fundamental part of teaching British values.

The Trojan Horse affair surfaced last year when an anonymous letter claimed hard-line Islamists were plotting the takeover of schools in the city. As a result of an investigation by education standards watchdog Ofsted, five schools were declared "inadequate" with evidence showing discrimination against girls and non-Muslim pupils.

Another article on the matter here.

Quote
Headteachers 'receiving threats' when teaching values against homophobia.

School leaders are dealing with death threats when teaching gay relationships in schools

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #105 - July 18, 2015, 12:05 AM

I thought long and hard about this.

It does not matter about whether this plot exists or not.

The issue is Muslims are already showing signs of extremism and it does start at home/masjids. I have seen it. Even occurs at colleges and universities.

I'm not going to sugar-coat it. This is a huge problem. So many Muslims have very extreme views. Yes not all Muslims blow themselves up. But vast majority have....very threatening beliefs which promote violence.

I don't feel comfortable with it.
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Reply #106 - July 18, 2015, 10:01 AM

Who does?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #107 - July 18, 2015, 10:09 AM

Quote from: someone1991 on July 18, 2015, 12:05 AM
I thought long and hard about this.

It does not matter about whether this plot exists or not.

~~The issue is Muslims are already showing signs of extremism and it does start at home/masjids. I have seen it. Even occurs at colleges and universities.~~

I'm not going to sugar-coat it. ~~This is a huge problem. So many Muslims have very extreme views. Yes not all Muslims blow themselves up. But vast majority have....very threatening beliefs which promote violence.~~

I don't feel comfortable with it.

Well "we don't need to sugar coat it, neither we need to poison Coat it"

But I will Not agree with what you said Mr, someone1991.. You know I cut off the text I don't agree with. But what I will agree with is., that the Islamic world's Political/ religious/ economical/ social/ family structure is put under tremendous stress from different directions.. from with-in Islamic society and from outside..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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Reply #108 - July 19, 2015, 06:48 AM

^ I mean all you have to do is ask Muslims a few basic questions.

Ask them how they would treat homosexuals?
Or ask them how they would treat apostates?
Or how they would treat women?

You will find similar responses which are extreme IMO.

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 18, 2015, 10:01 AM
Who does?

Good point.
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Reply #109 - July 19, 2015, 11:56 AM

Quote from: someone1991 on July 19, 2015, 06:48 AM
^ I mean all you have to do is ask Muslims a few basic questions.

Ask them how they would treat homosexuals?
Or ask them how they would treat apostates?
Or how they would treat women?

You will find similar responses which are extreme IMO.

So "all you have to do is ask Muslims a few basic questions" says someone1991..

And I tell you this dear someone1991.., I am actually one of those guys who lives his life by asking questions... And I fully agree with you, asking questions on any subject on any person whether he/she is good or bad must be a fundamental right of every one.

I am asking those questions for a long time and I will ask them again and again all the way to the end. well let us find some answers to those questions from people who happened to be Muslims

Quote
Q1: As a Muslims how would you treat homosexuals?

http://muslimmatters.org/2009/04/13/dealing-with-homosexual-urges/
http://islamqa.info/en/20068

Quote
Can you be a Muslim and gay?

http://www.quora.com/Can-you-be-a-Muslim-and-gay

You can be anything and be a Muslim, you can be gay, pedophile, serial killer, not that all are equivelent, you can be a drunkard or a fornicator, and still be a Muslim. But they are all unIslamic. I as a lifelong Muslim born in Egypt I am not going to try to pander to some kind Western sensitivity on this particular topic which it seems the West is so currently taken with, and just tell you that yes this is fine you can be a Muslim in good standing with Allah swt and Islam approves of it. It is not in accordance with nature or with what God intended for humanity obviously. If it were, then there would be no more humans because they would have not reproduced. Sperm does not fertilize fecal material.

The reasons it is not desirable for mankind are cited by God in the Qu'ran and by Muhammad saaws in his own words, as some the other answers here did show. So gay Muslims riding around on a parade in London, are they still Muslim? I'm not the one who can decide that, since I'm not God,, but their behavior is decidedly unIslamic and if they were doing that in a Muslim country things would be different for them.

well that is what it is... Clearly answer is NO.. a biiiig NO to homosexuality in Islam to the human society., but Islamic intellectuals would like to find a ways/treatments for gay people ..

Often I wonder., why this all powerful all knowing allah/god creates things/people that are NOT accetable by Muslims/believers on this earth?

May be this STUPID allah/god is powerless.. may there is no allah god and Quran is copy/pasted rubbish ... or at the best it is Arabic sonnets and songs with rhyming words or simply gibberish . So dear "someone1991".. on that question you are out of luck........

but there are two more question from you.. we will deal with them later..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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'Jihadist plot to take over Birmingham schools'
Reply #110 - July 19, 2015, 02:35 PM

There is an interesting point that many aren't mentioning. It's common in some circles today to say the letter is a fake. Even if we are to accept that, it's still a fact that, upon inspection, the things that came to light are frightening. Those who say the letter itself was a fake and that's that are ignoring the very real issues that came to light in response to the investigations.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #111 - July 19, 2015, 02:40 PM

How should Britain combat extremism? (Sunday Morning Live, 5/7/15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgfc4_U3o0

That is a good one to watch.......

well I see the lady in white Dress..... I am glad to see that she is not in Niqab..hijab..burkha .. whatever

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Reply #112 - July 19, 2015, 02:50 PM

Hohoho is that the Cerrah lady? Her hijab is getting less and less for every time I see her . I'd prefer not to listen to her, though.

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Reply #113 - July 19, 2015, 02:54 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on July 19, 2015, 02:50 PM
Hohoho is that the Cerrah lady? Her hijab is getting less and less for every time I see her . I'd prefer not to listen to her, though.

well Yes She is Cerrah lady Cornflower ., but what is interesting to note in that tube is the FAITH HEADS STRONGLY SUPPORTING FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION .. and apparently they are doing it because they fear oppression from apostates/infidels/and those who question/heckle religious nuts... and that is a good news..

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'Jihadist plot to take over Birmingham schools'
Reply #114 - July 19, 2015, 04:43 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 19, 2015, 02:35 PM
There is an interesting point that many aren't mentioning. It's common in some circles today to say the letter is a fake. Even if we are to accept that, it's still a fact that, upon inspection, the things that came to light are frightening. Those who say the letter itself was a fake and that's that are ignoring the very real issues that came to light in response to the investigations.

I actually went to one of those schools lol.
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Reply #115 - August 06, 2015, 01:31 AM

Interesting. Do you think the reports are accurate, looking back on your own experience?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #116 - August 06, 2015, 01:43 AM

Quote from: Cornflower on July 19, 2015, 02:50 PM
Hohoho is that the Cerrah lady? Her hijab is getting less and less for every time I see her . I'd prefer not to listen to her, though.

I wore mine like that for the last few years of my membership in the Ummah.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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'Jihadist plot to take over Birmingham schools'
Reply #117 - September 08, 2015, 02:04 PM

Muslim governor named as architect of Birmingham 'Trojan horse' plot is banned from any involvement with schools for 'undermining British values'

Quote
The former education chairman who was named as the architect of the Trojan Horse Muslim takeover plot in Birmingham has been banned from any involvement with schools.

Tahir Alam has become the first person to be issued with the blanket ban by the Department for Education (DfE), which accused him of 'undermining the fundamental British values'.

Mr Alam, who resigned as chairman of governors at the Park View Educational Trust after 17 years in charge, at the height of the scandal, said he intended to appeal against the decision.

The trust had been the focus of allegations made in the anonymous Trojan Horse letter, which came to light in late 2013 and triggered several inquiries into an alleged plot by hardline Muslims to seize control of a number of school governing boards.

The letter said that Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester should lead the strategy. It stated: 'We have an obligation to our children to fulfil our roles and ensure these schools are run on Islamic principles.'

It declares that hard-line Muslim parents should be identified and turned against head-teachers who are 'non-believers'.

It went on: 'The way to do this is to tell each parent that the school is corrupting their children with sex education, teaching about homosexuals, making their children pray Christian prayers and [taking part in] mixed swimming and sport.
'If you can get them to be very vocal in the playground as they drop off or pick up their children, that will stir up other parents.'

The letter was dismissed as a hoax by Alam, who is a prominent member of the Muslim Council Of Britain, named in it, who saw it as a 'dirty trick to feed anti-Muslim sentiment'.

Mr Alam has always denied any wrongdoing and branded the DfE's claims against him 'nonsensical'.

He told the Guardian: 'I have the dubious honour of being the first person to be issued with a ban of this kind by the (Department for Education) preventing me from taking part in the management of schools.

'I did my job as a governor, as a volunteer, and I did it very well in collaboration with others. I helped transform these schools into successful schools and stand by my work there.

'All the allegations against me have been put forward on the basis of hearsay and I strongly contest them.'

In a letter passed to the newspaper, Mr Alam was accused of putting pupils 'at risk of vulnerability to radicalisation, promoted intolerance of difference and diversity and restricted their life chances by failing to provide pupils with the necessary learning and skills to flourish in modern, multicultural Britain.'

The paper added the letter states any school employing Mr Alam in a management capacity, either paid or unpaid, would be shut down, while the DfE have rejected his 11-page rebuttal.

In April last year two members of staff at Park View Academy claimed a senior colleague had endorsed the teachings of the now dead American-born leader of Al-Qaeda in Arabian Peninsula Anwar al-Awlaki, and that a viewpoint politically sympathetic to the terrorist group had been promoted in an assembly.

Park View Academy denied the allegations. The governors of Park View Educational Trust described the investigations as a 'witch-hunt'.

Quote
TIMELINE OF THE TROJAN HORSE PLOT WHICH ROCKED EDUCATION CHIEFS

March 2014

Birmingham City Council launched an investigation a number of schools in the city after receiving a copy of an anonymous letter referring to Operation Trojan Horse. The plot of the operation was made by some Muslim groups to install governors at schools. It claimed responsibility for ousting four head teachers.
The Department for Education (DfE) confirmed it was also investigating.

A couple of days later Muslim headmistress claimed she was driven out of her job by extremists bent on taking over state schools. Her school was one of 12 apparently targeted by Operation Trojan Horse. In a letter seen by the Mail, a fanatic bragged about enlisting four radical parents to help oust her in 1993. The 69-year-old believed she was seen as an enemy because she was too moderate a Muslim. She was confronted with a number of allegations, including one of financial mismanagement.

On March 17, Ofsted turned up at Park View Academy, one of the schools implicated, for a snap inspection.

Two years earlier the predecessor school on the site had been graded outstanding. "All schools should be like this," Ofsted chief Sir Michael Wilshaw had said in March 2012.

Park View was put under an Education Funding Agency probe over the misuse of public funds to pay £70,000 for playground loudspeakers to summon pupils to Islamic prayers.

April 2014

Two members of staff at Park View Academy claimed a senior colleague had endorsed the teachings of the now dead American-born leader of Al-Qaeda in Arabian Peninsula, Anwar al-Awlaki, and that a viewpoint politically sympathetic to the terrorist group had been promoted in an assembly. Park View Academy denied the allegations. The governors of Park View Educational Trust described the investigations as a "witch-hunt".

Prime Minister David Cameron spoke out for the first time on the matter, saying: ‘We will not accept any school being run by extremists or promoting extremist views.

Birmingham City Council said it was looking into allegations involving 25 schools in the city, including primaries, secondaries and academies. Council leader Sir Albert Bore said he did not believe there was a "plot".

On April 15, West Midlands Police condemned the DfE's decision to appoint a former national head of counter terrorism, Peter Clarke, to carry out its investigation for the message it sent. Sir Michael Wilshaw took personal charge of Ofsted's Trojan Horse investigations.

A leaked DfE document into three Birmingham schools found that pupils were illegally segregated and non-Muslim students were discriminated against.
Inspectors also revealed that the GCSE syllabus was restricted to conform with 'conservative Islamic teaching', with lessons in sex education banned and evolution only covered 'briefly'.

Inspectors found that in Park View school, girls were forced to sit around the back or edges of the classroom while boys were allowed to sit at the front.
Officials from the school had previously claimed that any segregation was voluntary, but inspectors were told by students that teachers set out the seating plans. At Golden Hillock five Christian students in Year 11 were 'left to teach themselves' religious education after the teacher gave all their time 'to the students who are doing the Islamic course'. All discussion of sexual orientation or intimacy was banned at the same school, limiting lessons on biology, the arts and literature.

May 2014

Sir Michael Wilshaw revealed Ofsted had investigated 21 schools in Birmingham. Three of the schools under investigation published their Ofsted reports.

Ninestiles and Small Heath are rated as "outstanding" and Washwood Heath as "good".

Later in the month, Tahir Alam claimed children should not be allowed to swim during Ramadan because it may 'break their fast'.

On May 18, a teacher at Park View broke into a teenage girl's phone to prove she was in a 'forbidden relationship with a boy pupil, it is claimed.

The 16-year-old's mobile was reportedly confiscated by a teacher at Park View School in Birmingham last month, and then taken to a shop where its passcode was unlocked and its contents scrutinised.

After teachers found text messages between her and another Year 11 pupil as well as pictures of the pair she was suspended - despite the fact she was preparing to sit her GCSEs.

June 2014

Inspectors revealed that Park View 'failed to protect' students from Muslim extremists and education chiefs were warned about 'Trojan-Horse' style plots six years ago, it emerged today.

It also emerged that Tahir Alam had been working as a school inspector himself since 2010.
Home Secretary Theresa May accused Education Secretary Michael Gove of failing to deal with the alleged Islamist plot to take over schools.

In a letter she asked whether it is true that the DfE was warned about the allegations in 2010 and Birmingham Council as far back as 2008.

Ofsted placed five schools in special measures and confirmed that a sixth (which was already in special measures) was "inadequate".

Sir Michael Wilshaw said there was evidence of an "organised campaign to target certain schools" and found that some governors attempted to "impose and promote a narrow faith-based ideology" in secular schools. The schools involved denied any wrongdoing.

Park View and Nansen Primary were told they will lose funding, while Oldknow Academy and Golden Hillock School were warned they too could lose funding unless concerns are addressed.

At a public meeting, parents of pupils at Park View Academy called for governors at the school to stand down.

Vice-principal Lee Donaghy, however, said governors had been behind many of the changes that saw the school rated as outstanding by Ofsted in 2012.

The Park View Educational Trust, which ran three of the schools put in special measures, accused the government of "deliberately misrepresenting" schools and described inspections as "woefully shoddy" and "fatally flawed".

July 2014

The board of trustees at Park View Education Trust resigned. Its chairman Tahir Alam said the decision was made in the interests of the children.

He said a "co-ordinated and vicious" attack by former Education Secretary Michael Gove and the Department for Education had left the three-member board with no choice but to step down.

Waverley School head teacher Kamal Hanif, Greet Primary head teacher Pat Smart and King Edwards VI Five Ways head teacher Yvonne Wilkinson agreed to serve on the new trust.

On July 18 Birmingham City Council released key findings from its inquiry into 25 schools, prompting reaction from head teachers and others.

Written by Ian Kershaw, it found no evidence of violent extremism, radicalisation or an anti-British agenda being promoted. However, it did warn of governance problems in some schools.

Mr Kershaw also criticised the council's role in supporting the schools involved.
Four days later, Peter Clarke's report for the DfE is officially released. Mr Clarke said his inquiry found no evidence of extremism but stated that "there are a number of people in a position of influence who either espouse, or sympathise with or fail to challenge extremist views".

September 2014

Sir Mike Tomlinson was appointed Education Commissioner for Birmingham by the government. Ofsted said there were still concerns at Park View Academy following a monitoring inspection.

March 2015

The Education Select Committee criticised a lack of coordination between the various Trojan Horse inquiries and suggested there was no evidence of a plot. Ofsted said three out of the five schools placed in special measures are making "reasonable progress".

May 2015

Politicians warned that no action had been taken against key figures in the alleged attempts by hardliners to take over Birmingham schools.
They said that – although some had resigned or been removed from governing bodies – many former governors were still allowed to work with families and ‘preach nonsense’. Anumber of Birmingham head teachers said they have been subjected to an ‘ongoing’ intimidation campaign. One head teacher received death threats while two others had dead animals strung up on school gates.

June 2015

The DfE criticised the Education Select Committee for "downplaying" the seriousness of events in Birmingham and "undermining" efforts to tackle extremism. The government announced that a national database of school governors in England will be set up.

July 2015

Ofsted chief Sir Michael Wilshaw warned of "potentially high numbers of pupils" disappearing from school registers in Birmingham and Tower Hamlets in east London, after follow-up visits prompted by the Trojan Horse inquiries. In a letter to the secretary of state for education, he also said the picture in Birmingham was "improving slowly", although problems remained at schools placed in special measures.

September 2015

Tahir Alam is banned from any involvement with schools by DfE which accused him of 'undermining the fundamental British values'.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #118 - February 21, 2022, 05:13 PM

Back in the news

The Trojan Horse Affair: how Serial podcast got it so wrong

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Reply #119 - February 22, 2022, 07:07 PM

from the article:

Quote
The idea that conservative men like Tahir Alam represent British Islam is plain wrong: surveys show the majority of British Muslims reject the ultra-conservative form of Islam that was found to be influencing these non-faith state schools.

but they are the loudest voices so necessarily represent islam in britain. and subscribing to a homophobic anti-woman religious tradition doesn’t make them ultra anything - it just makes them muslims.

calling out apologists and phobes whilst insisting that lovable fluffy rainbow muslims are the real majority? that’s the guardian for you.
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