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Theme Changer

 Topic: Morally bad verses

 (Read 7106 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Morally bad verses
     Reply #30 - March 26, 2014, 03:52 PM

    Hi Mr. Murtad, I'm not saying that Quran would be true if it's not violent or that it would be untrue if violent. I'm just merely interested what it actually teaches about violence, not from divine P.O.V

    I have read the Quran. It is full of violent verses. Without any doubt it clearly preaches hatred of non-Muslims. If the Quran were to be published today for the first time, it will be classified as hate literature and would be banned in most countries. Unfortunately, the Quran has acquired the status of religious scripture. The Quran clearly states that kaffirs must be tortured and killed.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #31 - March 26, 2014, 04:17 PM

    You're not going to get answers that satisfy your OCD standard. You're not going to get answers that conclusively prove a thing one way or another and deal with the minutiae of every possible objection you can think of. You're not going to get answers that definitively and categorically discredit every contention you might find on the internet. It is an endless task to meet such criteria. You will always be able to find some trivial peripheral point of dispute, always be able to find someone with some eccentric and overlooked view on a matter if you look hard enough. Eventually you're just gonna have to form an actual opinion and move on.


    Good point Ishina. But I would like to remind that my OCD/OThinking is mainly about the scientific miracles and hell.
    Now this on the other hand is not obsessive thinking to me at all in regards of attitude towards non-muslims. I'm just interested to really understand the passages. I agree with Mr. Murtad in the sense that those passages are terribly written as they are really unclear but before I really accuse of Quran commanding killing of non-believers without much of reasons, I want to have strong standing.

    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #32 - March 26, 2014, 04:20 PM

    Good point Ishina. But I would like to remind that my OCD/OThinking is mainly about the scientific miracles and hell.
    .......

    Any thing that is scientific can not be a Miracle.,   So there is NO scientific miracles Siunaa....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #33 - March 26, 2014, 05:01 PM

    I beg to differ:

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/250704/superstrong-spider-skin-art-or-scientific-miracle/
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #34 - March 26, 2014, 06:50 PM

    I do not see the miracle in this. It was a discovery of the application of spider silk which would retain this capability if we never discovered this in the first place.
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #35 - March 26, 2014, 07:37 PM

    ^ Sarcasm apparently doesn’t come across very well online without the use of emoticons and suchlike…
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #36 - March 26, 2014, 07:53 PM

    That's why I prefer video chats.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #37 - March 26, 2014, 08:17 PM

    ^ Sarcasm apparently doesn’t come across very well online without the use of emoticons and suchlike…


    I often fail to see sarcasm in text form, not your fault it is something which always happens to me.
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #38 - March 26, 2014, 08:31 PM

    That's why I prefer video chats.


    I for one am so genuinely bad at detecting sarcasm that that barely even helps me.  Undecided
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #39 - March 26, 2014, 08:34 PM

    Still nice to actually see/hear who you're taking to.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #40 - March 26, 2014, 09:55 PM

    ^ True.
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #41 - March 27, 2014, 06:51 AM

    @OP- Why should non-Muslims be spared ONLY when they repent or ask for protection? Can't we live an independent life like the Muslims? Aren't we human beings like them? Don't we have goodness in our hearts irrespective of whether we worship Allah or not? And as for "contextual" violent verses please don't forget that the Quran is for ALL TIMES. Mentioning verses for a particular situation is quite unnecessary. There are many so called revelations that have not been included in the Quran. That's because they were specific and not for all times.
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #42 - March 27, 2014, 07:32 AM

    Look up protection racket.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #43 - March 29, 2014, 03:53 AM

    I don't know if this has been posted. Here is one that I really dislike:



    In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.

    I know a context can be claimed for this verse, but considering t is talking about people who simply don't believe, it's disgusting.

    Context aside, it is Allah's actions that make this verse sound worse than the context (punishing people for free will - quote "And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers."). He calls disbelief a disease of the heart, and because they have a heart disease, he will INCREASE their heart disease.

    The reason this verse in particular came to mind and really bothered me is because I have seen remnants of this kind of attitude around my personal life. But hey if god can use these standards, why can't humans!?

    Another thing. Anyone notice the recurring theme of this attitude (of punishing people for the sake of them being "diseased")?

    Say, 'It is an impurity, so keep apart from women during menstruation and do not approach them until they have purified themselves. But once they have purified themselves, then go to them in the way that Allah has enjoined on you.' Allah loves those who turn back from wrongdoing and He loves those who purify themselves." (2:222)

    You gave women a period and called her impure..

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #44 - March 29, 2014, 09:28 AM

    Allah is such a cunt.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #45 - March 29, 2014, 12:02 PM

    ^ It’s long been a contention of mine that allah itself actively causes people’s disbelief and then punishes them for it。You get that so many times in the very first ‘proper’ book of the qur’an。I mean、what the actual fuck?!
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #46 - March 29, 2014, 02:19 PM

    Forget  here and there bad verses in Quran

    It is not just one verse  or few verses,  here we have whole chapter filled with  nonsense... 
     
    Quote
    In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

    066.001 : O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    066.002 : Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths (in some cases): and Allah is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

    066.003 : When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and Allah made it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."

    066.004 : If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.

    066.005 : It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast,- previously married or virgins.

    066.006 : O ye who believe! save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who flinch not (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded.

    066.007 : (They will say), "O ye Unbelievers! Make no excuses this Day! Ye are being but requited for all that ye did!"

    066.008 : O ye who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance: In the hope that your Lord will remove from you your ills and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow,- the Day that Allah will not permit to be humiliated the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their Light will run forward before them and by their right hands, while they say, "Our Lord! Perfect our Light for us, and grant us Forgiveness: for Thou hast power over all things."

    066.009 I: O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).

    066.010 : Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: "Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!"

    066.011 : And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong";

    066.012: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)


     That is SUCH SCANDALOUS surah that alleged Muhammad gets of his mouth to support his multiple marriages. . Any ways iffo who used to write here has list of such nonsense verses from Quran   So.. read it..
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #47 - October 21, 2014, 02:17 PM

    Siunaa M., If they are NOT morally bad verses,  Are  these verses morally good?
     
    Do one need to juggle with Arabic words to make it good?    If they are neither morally bad nor morally good and just hand waving passer by statements, parables and pranks, then what is the point of selling them as word of allah/god/voodoo doll  whatever?

      I said that  too Siunaa Maailmaa  some 6mnths ago and Siunaa_M is missing .. So on those highlighted words I am going to read Quran again. And I am going to read to it to judge every verse of Quran and catalog  them in to different categories ...

    The categories are:


    1). Morally Good verses

    2). Hand waving passer by statements

    3). Old Stories in New Bottle and  parables

    4).  Pranks and Morally bad Verses

    So those are my four categories., As usual I am a fan of Order of Revelation., So I am going to read Quran not the way that you see in the book but int the order  of alleged  revelation.  So those 114 chapters  is as follows..
    Quote
    1     96     Alaq         19     Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    2    68    Qalam    52    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    3    73    Muzammil    20    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    4    74    Mudathir    56    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    5    1    Fatehah    7    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    6    111    Lahab    5    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    7    81    Takwir    29    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    8    87    A'la       19    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    9    92    Leyl       21    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    10    89    Fajr       30    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    11    93    Duha       11    Meccan sura, reveled between 1 to 5th year of Prophet's mission
    12    94    Inshira    8    Macca
    13    103    Asr       3    Macca
    14    100    Aadiyat    11    Macca
    15    108    Kauthar    3    Macca
    16    102    Takatur    8    Macca
    17    107    Alma'un    7    Macca
    18    109    Kafirun    6    Macca
    19    105    Fil       5    Macca
    20    113    Falaq    5    Macca
    21    114    Nas       6    Macca
    22    112    Iklas       4    Macca
    23    53    Najm       62    Macca
    24    80    Abasa    42    Macca
    25    97    Qadr       5    Macca
    26    91    Shams    15    Macca
    27    85    Buruj       22    Macca
    28    95    T'in       8    Macca
    29    106    Qureysh    4    Macca
    30    101    Qariah    11    Macca
    31    75    Qiyamah    40    Meccan  
    32    104    Humazah    9    Macca
    33    77    Mursalat    50    Macca
    34    50    Q'af       45    Macca
    35    90    Balad    20    Macca
    36    86    Tariq       17    Macca
    37    54    Qamr       55    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    38    38    Sad       88    Macca
    39    7    A'Raf       206    Macca
    40    72    Jinn       28    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    41    36    Ya'sin    83    Macca
    42    25    Furqan    77    Macca
    43    35    Fatir       45    Macca
    44    19    Maryam    98    Macca
    45    20    Ta Ha    135    Macca
    46    56    Waqiah    96    Macca
    47    26    Shuara    227    Macca
    48    27    Naml       93    Macca
    49    28    Qasas    88    Macca
    50    17    Bani Israil    111    Macca
    51    10    Yunus    109    Macca
    52    11    Hud       123    Macca
    53    12    Yousuf    111    Macca
    54    15    Hijr       99    Macca
    55    6    Anam    165    Macca
    56    37    Saffat    182    Macca
    57    31    Luqman    34    Macca
    58    34    Saba       54    Macca
    59    39    Zumar    75    Macca
    60    40    Mumin    85    Macca
    61    41    Hamim Sajdah 54    Macca
    62    42    Shura    53    Macca
    63    43    Zukhruf    89    Macca
    64    44    Dukhan    59    Macca
    65    45    Jathiyah    37    Macca
    66    46    Ahqaf    35    Macca
    67    51    Dhariyat    60    Macca
    68    88    Ghashiya    26    Madina
    69    18    Kahf       110    Macca
    70    16    Nahl       128    Macca
    71    71    Noah       28    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    72    14    Ibrahim    52    Macca
    73    21    Anbiya    112    Macca
    74    23    Muminun    118    Macca
    75    32    Sajdah    30    Macca
    76    52    Tur       49    Macca
    77    67    Mulk       30    Macca
    78    69    Haqqah    52    Macca
    79    70    Maarij    44    Macca
    80    78    Naba       40    Macca
    81    79    Naziat    46    Macca
    82    82    Infitar    19    Macca
    83    84    Inshiqaq    25    Macca
    84    30    Rum       60    Macca
    85    29    Ankabut    85    Macca
    86    83    Tatfif    36    Macca
    87    2    Baqarah    286    Madina
    88    8    Anfal       75    Madina
    89    3    Aal-e-Imran 200    Madina
    90    33    Ahzab    73    Madina
    91    60    Mumtahana 13    Madina
    92    4    Nisa       176    Madina
    93    99    Zilzal       8    Macca
    94    57    Hadid    29    Madina
    95    47    Muhammad    38    Madina
    96    13    Ra'd       43    Madina
    97    55    Rahman    78    Meccan  
    98    76    Dahr       31    Meccan sura 5th and 6th year of Prophet's mission
    99    65    Talaq    12    Madina
    100    98    Beyinnah    8    Madina
    101    59    Hashr    24    Madina
    102    24    Nur       64    Madina
    103    22    Hajj       78    Madina
    104    63    Munafiqun    11    Madina
    105    58    Mujadila    22    Madina
    106    49    Hujurat    18    Madina
    107    66    Tahrim    12    Madina
    108    64    Taghabun    18    Madina
    109    61    Saff       14    Madina
    110    62    Jumah    11    Madina
    111    48    Fath       29    Madina
    112    5    Maidah    120    Madina
    113    9    Taubah    129    Madina
    114    110    Nasr       3    Madina


    That is the way I like it., The 2nd column  and that is the way I am going to read.. My 1st Surah is the 96th of the book and my last surah.. the 114th surah  is the  110th of the bo0k

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Morally bad verses
     Reply #48 - October 21, 2014, 07:58 PM

     So let me read that Surah-1 AL-ALAQ (THE CLOT, READ) which was alleged reveled in Makka and has 19 verses.  I usually read 5, 6, 10 verses together to make some sense out of Quran., Otherwise often If I read single verse and trying to make sense out of it IT SOUNDS LIKE ABSOLUTE NONSENSE without any head and tail . So I read Quran verses together not alone....  
     
    Quote
    096.001-005:   Read in the name of your Lord Who created. _ :He created man from a clot._:Read and your Lord is Most Honorable,_: Who taught (to write) with the pen_ :Taught man what he knew not.

    096.006-013 :  Nay! man is most surely inordinate,_: Because he sees himself free from want._: Surely to your Lord is the return._: Have you seen him who forbids_: A servant when he prays?_: Have you considered if he were on the right way,_: Or enjoined guarding (against evil)?_: Have you considered if he gives the lie to the truth and turns (his) back?

    096.014- 019: Does he not know that Allah does see?_: Nay! if he desist not, We would certainly smite his forehead,_: A lying, sinful forehead._: Then let him summon his council,_: We too would summon the braves of the army._: Nay! obey him not, and make obeisance and draw nigh (to Allah).

    So those are the 19 verses  of Surah-1  revealed by Allah through  angel who Jibreel to alleged Prophet of Islam.,  who  form me  is hard to find that character  in the history of Islam.  And that is how I read Quran. On the way, let me also put the links for Tafsir  of this chapter, so I learn what other folks  thought about these verses..

    Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Surah-1(96)

    Surah-1(96)Tafsir by Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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