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Theme Changer

 Topic: Scotland

 (Read 15746 times)
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  • Scotland
     Reply #90 - September 20, 2014, 11:02 PM

    Scotland is just about the richest country to ever seek independence, they would have been fine if they'd voted yes.  There would have been a period of maybe five years or so when they had to increase expenditure to cover the start up costs of a new country, after that they would have been richer than any region of the UK outside London. 

    I agree with mubs, it was a missed opportunity.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Scotland
     Reply #91 - September 20, 2014, 11:06 PM

    Illustrative of the limitations of democracy. Democratic process is lame without education and activism. Democracy is just pissing into the wind if the people voting are not informed, wise and confident enough to vote progressively and willing to stake a bit more on the future instead of the status quo.


    True enough. And electoral democracy divorced from active participation is both the most flawed and most common model.

    They nearly made it, 45% of the vote, despite all the scare tactics from big business, and the full weight of the British establishment and media behind the No campaign.  I can see alot of no voters regretting their choice in a few years time, once all the promises have been broken, Boris is installed in 10 Downing Street and England votes them out of the EU.


     Afro

    Independence from what? The invading British or the tyranny of the monarchy or the totalitarian British state?


    How bout all three? Well the first one it would be the British invading others rather than Scotland nowadays, but plenty of Scots wanted independence from that, that's for sure.

    Quote
    'self-governance' when elected Scottish MPs are able to represent their views in Parliament like the rest of the country?


    Yup, and your Parliament is not very representative of the people voting. Same here in the US.

    Quote
    Not to mention that Scotland already is able to determine some of its laws due to devolution post 1997.


    So?

    Quote
    'Identity'? We see how brilliantly that has worked throughout history when attempting to establish a country. Land of the Pure anyone?


    Meh, that's how shit works-- it's not always manifested nowadays as negatively as you portray it. Czechoslovakia had a pretty painless and bloodless breakup, I would presume Scotland would as well.

    Quote
    This campaign was a waste of bloody time and money and it need not have happened.


    Yeah how dare people waste time and money attempting assert their autonomy or restructure government.

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris
    Scotland would of suffered if they broke away. This is a fact. Would they, after initial trials, have become a rich successful country? Who can say. Certainly not in my lifetime though.


    None of the things you stated are "facts" they are possibilities. In any case this is the problem with representative, non-participatory democracy-- it allows cowards to determine policy and holds back progress.

    OMG Q-Man - good to see you (I'm Hass btw  grin12)

      far away hug


    What's up ma sand nig?

    fuck you
  • Scotland
     Reply #92 - September 21, 2014, 12:09 AM

    Meh,all these talk about currency and economic analysis of boom and doom is bulls. I think those are the least of their problems and they would have sort them out.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Scotland
     Reply #93 - September 21, 2014, 12:26 AM

    Just a few figures for you all to consider.  Spending figures are per capita, and are the latest official figures I have seen.

    England:  £8,588 per person, per annum.

    Scotland:  £10,212 per person, per annum.   (£1,624 more than the English)

    Wales:  £9,829 per person, per annum.   (£1,241 more than the English)

    Northern Ireland:  £10,706 per person, per annum.  (£2,118 more than the English)

    The English pay a heavy price for this Union.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.


    I totally agree with you on this. The Scots are nothing but a burden on the English, and they should bugger off and leave this great nation to flourish once again.

    Some would argue that these per capita spending figures are skewed, because Scotland has so many remote locations that things like infrastructure spending is more costly per person. But not me.  Others still would argue that Scotland pays its way with the oil revenue that helps to keep the British Balance of Payments deficit to under 5% of the GDP. They say that without the oil it could be as high as unsustainable 7%, but that sounds like nonsense to me.  They wax lyrical about our countries being stronger together, about us sharing the greatest of legacies together, and about a destiny that is both glorious and intertwined.  They argue that together we have greater influence and pull, economically, politically and militarily, and that a full blown divorce would be incredibly messy on all fronts.  Economically in particular, they say, England would find itself losing oil revenues, and although the banks heading south should balance that out in the long run, for the medium term, confidence would be lost in the English economy.  They say this could lead to investor flight, currency and share depreciation, recession, further unemployment and a general lack of trust and confidence in the English economy.

    I’m not convinced also by those that say that Scotland is a good progressive influence on the rest of the UK, that without it governments would always lean to the right, that without it there would be even greater inequality and pampering to the guys who have either inherited, or climbed on the shoulders of others, to get to the top, that without it we would become more insular, and possibly outside of the EU within three years. These same people argue that globalisation, integration and trade are responsible for the huge advances that the world has made, and that the western economises in particular have benefitted greatly from this pooling of talents, markets , ideas and resources. They even say that we should have less borders, and not more...  But me, I totally agree with you; we need more borders.  Everywhere.  Starting with the rebuilding of the wall between us, and those crazy savages to the north.  For what have they ever done, but pillaged, deep-fried, and been a constant drain on our resources?

    Scotland: you can take your Freedom, your Robert the Bruce, your Gordon the Brown, your Andy Murray, your Adam Smith, and even your late, great Bill Shankley, and stay the fuck away.  And most importantly of all, you can take your fucking Deacon Blue, and please leave us in peace.

    Hi
  • Scotland
     Reply #94 - September 21, 2014, 12:30 AM

    OMG Q-Man - good to see you (I'm Hass btw  grin12)

      far away hug


    Lol, was wondering who you were. That 'Ordeal with the Quran' thread makes much more sense now.

    By Allah, you have aged well  Smiley

    Hi
  • Scotland
     Reply #95 - September 21, 2014, 12:35 AM

    I totally agree with you on this
     ...
    And most importantly of all, you can take your fucking Deacon Blue, and please leave us in peace.

    Superb stuff. Cap doffed.
  • Scotland
     Reply #96 - September 21, 2014, 12:39 AM

    Thanks David, impressive cap to have doffed at me  Smiley

    Hi
  • Scotland
     Reply #97 - September 21, 2014, 01:04 AM

    osmanthus sings "Land of Hope and Glory" parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Scotland
     Reply #98 - September 21, 2014, 09:45 AM

    What's up ma sand nig?


    Same old...

    Good to see you back, mate Smiley
  • Scotland
     Reply #99 - September 21, 2014, 09:46 AM

    Lol, was wondering who you were. That 'Ordeal with the Quran' thread makes much more sense now.

    By Allah, you have aged well  Smiley


    lol... hey musivore, good to see you back too! Smiley
  • Scotland
     Reply #100 - September 21, 2014, 11:44 AM

    Musivore brought up the subject of "Scottish" oil, so we may just as well straighten out that old chestnut.

    Most of the oil platforms are actually in International waters, and are therefore not Scottish.

    Most of the oil companies working in the North Sea are not Scottish owned.

    Though it is easier for the oil companies to use Scottish ports to service their platforms, it is by no means essential that they do so.  If push came to shove, ports in North East England could be utilised, creating more jobs and wealth to boost England's economy.

    The companies currently engaged in the servicing and supply of oil rigs would simply follow the money, and Aberdeen would suffer as a result.  Expertise would also follow the money and, as many oil rig workers are English anyway, they may even welcome the move.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.
  • Scotland
     Reply #101 - September 21, 2014, 03:43 PM

    I dont see this as Scotland vs England, as some people here. But as Globalisation vs Localism. I am on the side of localism, and I think we are now headed in this direction. For one thing, big governments are terribly inefficient, and with the new economic landscape, I would say too inefficient.

    Regarding the discussion on economics, what is the price for Freedom and Self-Determination? If they fail, atleast they can say they did it their way. Would you rather be a well-off slave, or a poor, but free individual? I know what I would choose.

    I think the UK government is remarkably inept and discontent is growing fast. 
  • Scotland
     Reply #102 - September 21, 2014, 04:33 PM

    The UK government is certainly not inept ----- evil? Yes ----- disingenuous? Yes ---- corrupt? Yes ---- undemocratic? Yes.   Inept? No.

    When I hear people say that our government is stupid, I cringe.  If they were only stupid, I could forgive them for all the wrong they have done. 

    Stupidity I can forgive, but calculated and deliberate acts against its own citizens, I cannot forgive.

    Please stop regarding them as bungling idiots, as this lets them off the hook.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.
  • Scotland
     Reply #103 - September 21, 2014, 04:50 PM

    Ya good point. I stand corrected.
  • Scotland
     Reply #104 - September 21, 2014, 08:46 PM

    The UK government is certainly not inept ----- evil? Yes

    Why evil?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Scotland
     Reply #105 - September 21, 2014, 09:39 PM

    Musivore brought up the subject of "Scottish" oil, so we may just as well straighten out that old chestnut.

    Most of the oil platforms are actually in International waters, and are therefore not Scottish.

    Most of the oil companies working in the North Sea are not Scottish owned.

    Though it is easier for the oil companies to use Scottish ports to service their platforms, it is by no means essential that they do so.  If push came to shove, ports in North East England could be utilised, creating more jobs and wealth to boost England's economy.

    The companies currently engaged in the servicing and supply of oil rigs would simply follow the money, and Aberdeen would suffer as a result.  Expertise would also follow the money and, as many oil rig workers are English anyway, they may even welcome the move.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.

     
    According to this, I think it may be 90% Scottish?

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20042070


    Hi
  • Scotland
     Reply #106 - September 21, 2014, 09:53 PM

    Why Evil?

    Where do I start?

    Okay, why not start with the Wilson government?

    People of my generation well remember Dr. Beeching, the man who wrote the report on the railways in the early 60's.

    The man who commissioned Beeching to compile that report was Earnest Marple, Secretary of State for Transport.

    Marple desperately wanted the railways to be decimated, and Beeching obliged.  By killing off the railways, Marple and Beeching created a demand for new roads to be built.

    As well as being Secretary of State for Transport, Earnest Marple was a director and significant shareholder in a company which undertook government road building contracts.  He awarded contracts only to firms which sub-contracted work to his company.  (thus avoiding having to award contracts to his own company directly)

    Much of his illegal dealing was discovered, but he had fled the country before he could be arrested for his crimes.  He spent the remainder of his life in exile.

    When Harold Wilson wanted the tax-payer to fund exploration for North Sea Oil, he actually told the public that they would soon have their gas for nothing.  He went on to explain that gas was a by-product of oil, and by funding exploration in the North Sea, British tax-payers would benefit from unlimited free gas.

    Not only did we never get our free gas, but Wilson allowed private companies to benefit from the research we had paid for.

    I have a huge dossier on government corruption, containing many hundreds of (proven) examples of government turning public money into private funds.  I think that is the very definition of evil.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.



  • Scotland
     Reply #107 - September 21, 2014, 10:18 PM

    I suppose that International Lawyers will have to sort that one out but, as things stand, most of the rigs are outside of territorial waters.

    The per capita formula seems fairer anyway, as most of the funding for exploration and exploitation of North Sea Oil came from English tax-payers during the 1960's and 70's (myself among them)

    Anyway, it is tax-revenue we are talking about, not ownership of the corporations which actually run the industry.  They will decide the oil industry's future, not the Scottish parliament.

    Many English assets go into the general coffers, a fact not often mentioned by Scottish Nationalists.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.
  • Scotland
     Reply #108 - September 21, 2014, 10:48 PM

    Ok thanks. But last time I checked, we're not separating, so that makes the task of the international lawyers a whole lot easier  Smiley

    Hi
  • Scotland
     Reply #109 - September 21, 2014, 11:04 PM

    Scotland is just about the richest country to ever seek independence, they would have been fine if they'd voted yes.  There would have been a period of maybe five years or so when they had to increase expenditure to cover the start up costs of a new country, after that they would have been richer than any region of the UK outside London.

    I agree with mubs, it was a missed opportunity.


    It would've been a logistical nightmare for both Scotland and England, well more so for England. I'm glad they didn't go independent, especially now that the economy is recovery albeit a snails pace. Although I'm sure David Cameron knew this the sly fox and pushed the referendum way to early for the Scots.

    07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
    07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
  • Scotland
     Reply #110 - October 04, 2014, 08:01 PM

    Off-topic, but watch this (preferably full-screen) if you like Scotland and a bit of biking
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Scotland
     Reply #111 - October 04, 2014, 08:08 PM

    Awesome watch. Britain has so many places of incredible beauty.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Scotland
     Reply #112 - October 04, 2014, 08:24 PM

    Indeed

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Scotland
     Reply #113 - May 20, 2015, 10:30 PM

    And so, the battle lost, Alex Salmond returns to the highlands and lays down in the sacred place. As he returns to slumber, hidden away in the dark with Mel Gibson and dancing haggis filling his dreams, he reflects. According to legend, centuries from now, when Scotland needs him most, Alex Salmond will return. Perhaps then, the people will finally be ready.

    Alex Salmond was just recently sworn into Parliament. Not centuries after all. Not even a year.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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