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Theme Changer

 Topic: Gate of Dhul Qurain

 (Read 5911 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     OP - January 29, 2014, 04:18 AM

    I read that the Quran talks about some massive iron gate holding back the people of Gog and Magog. Seeing that we have Google Earth which lets us view basically the entire world, a gate of such magnitude would have been found by now if it existed especially if there was an entire nation of people behind it. It seems the Quran is talking about a literal gate as it talks about it not coming down till Judgement Day. How do muslims interpret this?

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #1 - January 29, 2014, 04:38 AM

    There was a muslm traveller a few centuries back who came upon the great wall of China and thought it was the one from the Gog and Magog story, can't remember his name. Toona said people in Saudi think it's hidden underground despite the theology lending credit to the opposite.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #2 - January 29, 2014, 04:50 AM

    I have heard many different interpretations. One being that they are one underground, however there are more defiantly more stories (one that includes alexander the great). Dhul al Qurain is the actually means the two horned ( page 319 of Tom holland's book In The Shadow of The sword

    This also is a great help in understanding the story

    http://klingschor.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/alexander-great-dhu-al-qarnayn-quran.html

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #3 - January 29, 2014, 05:26 AM

    So some muslims think there is an entire civilization of people living underground behind some weird underground wall? That seems like it would cause some people to suspect the quran might not be all its cracked up to be  Roll Eyes

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #4 - January 29, 2014, 05:27 AM

    One would think.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #5 - January 29, 2014, 05:42 AM

    Fact. Two bands have exploited this story to make awesome music in the Mideast. Metal for life.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #6 - January 29, 2014, 06:01 AM

    @movingfeet, tell me this band at another time please Smiley

    @poster, yeah I know a few  Cheesy

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #7 - January 30, 2014, 07:22 PM

    Still waiting for the band names.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #8 - January 30, 2014, 07:30 PM

    Well, I heard that there is a giant wall separating us from these Aliens people, who lick this wall and day by day it gets thinner. When the end of the world will approach, these Aliens will smash us like we smashed ants.
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #9 - January 30, 2014, 10:35 PM

    I don't smash ants. What an odd thing to say. What did ants ever do to you?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #10 - January 30, 2014, 10:49 PM

    Dhul - Qarnayn and Al-Namrood

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #11 - January 31, 2014, 12:03 AM

    Well, I heard that there is a giant wall separating us from these Aliens people, who lick this wall and day by day it gets thinner. When the end of the world will approach, these Aliens will smash us like we smashed ants.



    I think Gog and Magog have something to do with the real Iskander. Someone on here mentioned it, and it fits perfectly.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #12 - January 31, 2014, 12:29 AM

    I think Gog and Magog have something to do with the real Iskander. Someone on here mentioned it, and it fits perfectly.


    Could you elaborate?  Huh?

    All I could find on Iskandar and Gog & Magog is this absurdity: http://www.answering-christianity.com/iron_gates.htm
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #13 - January 31, 2014, 12:48 AM

    Of course. Here is the theory someone here pointed out to me:

    "Alexander reigned for nineteen years from Alexandria, then he defeated Darius, marched around the globe and ended up at the seacoast of Sunland. Sunland was where the Unclean Peoples lived: they sustained themselves by eating human foetusses, decaying corpses and still-born infants - as well as dogs, flies and cats. Alexander drove those Unclean Peoples to the north and he sealed the entrance to the north by building bronze gates between the two mountains commonly known as Ubera Aquilonis - 'Breasts of the North'. Alexander strengthened his gates with asiceton, some supernatural form of metal. He also forced the Unclean Peoples to abandon all uses of witchcraft, so that they would never be able to destroy the 'Gates of the North'. However, at the day of the apocalypse these Unclean Peoples - Gog and Magog being their foremost - will scale Alexander's barricade and will turn against the 'Israelites'.

    Pseudo-Methodius
    The content of this fragment was considered to have been part of the apocaliptic revelations of the Christian saint Methodius. Methodius was bishop of Patara in Lycia (south-west modern Turkey). He was born in 260 AD and he died a martyr's death under Roman emperor Maximian in 311 or 312 AD. However, most modern scholars tend towards the interpretation that the text was an invention by Pseudo-Methodius, who was a Christian bishop somewhere in Syria around 680 AD and whose real name is quite uncertain. The Muslim Koran however includes a passage very similar to this Pseudo-Methodius prophecy. The origins of the Koran can not be dated later than 632 AD, the very year that Mohammed the Prophet died. (This might even lead to the hypothesis that both the Koran text and the Pseudo-Methodius relied on a common source.)

    In any case the legend of the Unclean Peoples became incorporated in the Alexander Romance from some religious origin during Late Antiquity or during the early Middle Ages. Gog and Magog - the most prominent names amongst the Unclean Peoples - are first mentioned in the Old Testament book of Ezechiel (38-39). Ezechiel wrote around 600 BC. In later texts the names of Gog and Magog appear to have been used ad lib to describe the various violent, hostile tribes from the north-eastern fringes of the known world: Scythians, Huns, even Mongols.

    I have found that further exploration of this subject might lead one only towards questionable and unreliable sources from the darker vaults of history. In any case: Alexander the Great is always portrayed as the savior and protector of mankind who exiled the Unclean Peoples from the civilised world."

    http://www.pothos.org/content/index.php?page=legends-gog-magog
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Click on the link for more information on it, but this is the basic theory.


    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #14 - January 31, 2014, 05:51 AM

    Funnily enough Gog and Magog are also a part of British myth. These are the names of two Giants from the legends of ancient Britain. They were children from the evil daughters of Diocletian who ruled the British Isles. A Trojan called Brutus came to the land to conquer it. He fought Gog and Magog and had them chained to the gates in London. Some believe that Gog and Magog were the last of the Giants that ruled Britain and that they were imprisoned by Alexander the Great behind bronze and iron gates. When King Arthur came to Britain the two Giants escaped and fought in the court of the King. A French tale states that Gos et Magos as they are known, were killed by the Giant Gargantua. Effigies were made to guard the London Guildhall. The originals were destroyed in the Great Fire of London. New ones were made but these were lost in the bombings of the Second World War. Now a third set of statues have been cast and still stand. Gog holds a mace while Magog is armed with a spear.

    Also of note:

    Quote
    Despite their generally negative depiction in the Bible, Lord Mayors of the City of London carry images of Gog and Magog (depicted as giants) in a traditional procession in the Lord Mayor's Show. According to the tradition, the giants Gog and Magog are guardians of the City of London, and images of them have been carried in the Lord Mayor's Show since the days of King Henry V. The Lord Mayor's procession takes place each year on the second Saturday of November.

    The Lord Mayor's account of Gog and Magog says that the Roman Emperor Diocletian had thirty-three wicked daughters. He found thirty-three husbands for them to curb their wicked ways; they chafed at this, and under the leadership of the eldest sister, Alba, they murdered their husbands. For this crime they were set adrift at sea; they washed ashore on a windswept island, which they named "Albion"—after Alba. Here they coupled with demons and gave birth to a race of giants, whose descendants included Gog and Magog.[54]

    An even older British connection to Gog and Magog appears in Geoffrey of Monmouth's influential 12th-century Historia Regum Britanniae, which states that Goemagot was a giant slain by the eponymous Cornish hero Corin or Corineus. The tale figures in the body of unlikely lore that has Britain settled by the Trojan soldier Brutus and other fleeing heroes from the Trojan War. Corineus supposedly slew the giant by throwing him into the sea near Plymouth; Richard Carew notes the presence of chalk figures carved on Plymouth Hoe in his time. Wace (Roman de Brut), Layamon (Layamon's Brut) (who calls the giant Goemagog), and other chroniclers retell the story, which was picked up by later poets and romanciers. John Milton's History of Britain gives this version:
    The Island, not yet Britain, but Albion, was in a manner desert and inhospitable, kept only by a remnant of Giants, whose excessive Force and Tyrannie had consumed the rest. Them Brutus destroies, and to his people divides the land, which, with some reference to his own name, he thenceforth calls Britain. To Corineus, Cornwall, as now we call it, fell by lot; the rather by him lik't, for that the hugest Giants in Rocks and Caves were said to lurk still there; which kind of Monsters to deal with was his old exercise.And heer, with leave bespok'n to recite a grand fable, though dignify'd by our best Poets: While Brutus, on a certain Festival day, solemnly kept on that shore where he first landed (Totnes), was with the People in great jollity and mirth, a crew of these savages, breaking in upon them, began on the sudden another sort of Game than at such a meeting was expected. But at length by many hands overcome, Goemagog, the hugest, in hight twelve cubits, is reserved alive; that with him Corineus, who desired nothing more, might try his strength, whom in a Wrestle the Giant catching aloft, with a terrible hugg broke three of his Ribs: Nevertheless Corineus, enraged, heaving him up by main force, and on his shoulders bearing him to the next high rock, threw him hedlong all shatter'd into the sea, and left his name on the cliff, called ever since Langoemagog, which is to say, the Giant's Leap.
    Michael Drayton's Poly-Olbion preserves the tale as well:
    Amongst the ragged Cleeves those monstrous giants sought:Who (of their dreadful kind) t'appal the Trojans broughtGreat Gogmagog, an oake that by the roots could teare;So mighty were (that time) the men who lived there:But, for the use of armes he did not understand(Except some rock or tree, that coming next to land,He raised out of the earth to execute his rage),He challenge makes for strength, and offereth there his gage,Which Corin taketh up, to answer by and by,Upon this sonne of earth his utmost power to try.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog#Britain_and_Ireland






    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #15 - January 31, 2014, 01:20 PM

    The more I read about these stories, the more I realize that the Quran has nothing original, instead is just a bad copy.

  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #16 - February 01, 2014, 03:52 AM

    If you read the Bible, it provides further clarity on the subject.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #17 - February 01, 2014, 10:50 AM

    I had to read the bible as a homework last year, but I refused, because I was still a muslim.
     Roll Eyes
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #18 - February 01, 2014, 11:07 AM

    The Old Testament is quite amusing, read it at least twice cover to cover when I was a teenager. It's filled with good part, bad parts, and out right crazy parts like incest and rape committed by our righteous prophets Cheesy

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #19 - February 03, 2014, 04:56 AM

    The Old Testament is quite amusing, read it at least twice cover to cover when I was a teenager. It's filled with good part, bad parts, and out right crazy parts like incest and rape committed by our righteous prophets Cheesy


    The Bible is quite graphic in comparison to what I was not allowed to watch such as scifi.
  • Gate of Dhul Qurain
     Reply #20 - February 04, 2014, 02:54 AM

    I had to read the bible as a homework last year, but I refused, because I was still a muslim.
     Roll Eyes

     
    You should thumb through it one day. Most of it is pretty tedious, but they have beheadings and all sorts of gory stuff in there, a fair amount of backstabbing and genocide and all sorts of discrimination and trickery.
    That is just the Old Testament, too.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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