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Theme Changer

 Topic: This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation

 (Read 4047 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     OP - January 19, 2014, 10:01 AM

    "That is why, to this day we never see anyone converting to Islam unless in terror, or in quest of power, or to avoid heavy taxation, or to escape humiliation, or if taken prisoner, or because of infatuation with a Muslim woman, or for some similar reason. Nor do we see a respected, wealthy, and pious non-Muslim well versed in both his faith and that of Islam, going over to the Islamic faith without some of the aforementioned or similar motives."

    By Ibn Kammuna, 12th Century Jewish Philosopher.

    How much you agree?
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #1 - January 19, 2014, 10:42 AM

    To a very minimal extent. Pace, for instance, Martin  Lings or Gai Eaton.

    Bourgeois bohemians I know, but I think their conversion(s) to Islam stemmed out of desperation.

    IDK, I'm hammered. I'll respond with something more coherent later on.
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #2 - January 19, 2014, 11:52 AM

    I'd be willing to wager that there are more converts outside dar-al Islam than within it these days, so the historical context is somewhat different.

    Which leads to the following corollary: there's nothing to make a pious non-Muslim any better or worse than a pious Muslim. What of it?
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #3 - January 19, 2014, 12:43 PM

    @ toor.

    Can you explain.
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #4 - January 19, 2014, 02:52 PM

    My contention is that there's no more reason to believe in Islam than there is in any other religion, in the context of conversions to Islam outside Muslim-majority countries. As dawah efforts tend to be focused mainly outside Muslim-dominant parts of the world, the answer to the question of "why do people convert to Islam" in such places is likely to be somewhat different than to what it may be where Islam is a dominant religion (as is described in your quote).
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #5 - January 19, 2014, 03:33 PM

    "That is why, to this day we never see anyone converting to Islam unless in terror, or in quest of power, or to avoid heavy taxation, or to escape humiliation, or if taken prisoner, or because of infatuation with a Muslim woman, or for some similar reason. Nor do we see a respected, wealthy, and pious non-Muslim well versed in both his faith and that of Islam, going over to the Islamic faith without some of the aforementioned or similar motives."

    By Ibn Kammuna, 12th Century Jewish Philosopher.

    How much you agree?

     yaaa.. stupid  Juice...,    you don't know what happened to that guy..

    Quote
    ...........
    Quote
    Ibn Kammuna comparative treatise on the three monotheistic religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam, titled Examination of the Three Faiths challenged the legitimacy of Islam where he reasoned that incompatibility of sharia with the principles of justice undercuts Muhammad's claims of being a perfect man and stated that people convert to Islam from ulterior motives...

    He goes on to regard the Prophet Muhammad "unoriginal" and "imperfect".
    "We will not concede that Muhammad added to the knowledge of God and of obedience to him anything more than what was found in the earlier religions."[2][4]
    "There is no proof that Muhammad attained perfection and the ability to perfect others as claimed.

      The publication of the book caused rioting in Baghdad, forcing Ibn Kammuna to flee that city in secret and was recorded by the thirteenth century historian Ibn al-Fuwati. In this year 1284 it became known in Baghdad that the Jew Ibn Kammuna had written a volume in which he displayed impudence in the discussion of the prophecies. God keep us from repeating what he said.

    The infuriated mob rioted, and massed to attack his house and to kill him. The amir...and a group of high officials rode forth to the Mustansiriya madrassa, and summoned the supreme judge and the law teachers to hold a hearing on the affair. They sought Ibn Kammuna but he was in hiding. That day happened to be a Friday. The supreme judge set out for the prayer service but as the mob blocked him, he returned to the Mustansirya. The amir stepped out to calm the crowds but these showered abuse upon him and accused him of being on the side of Ibn Kammuna, and of defending him.

    Then, upon the amir’s order, ii was heralded in Baghdad that, early the following morning outside the city wall, lbn Kammuna would be burned. The mob subsided, and no further reference to Ibn Kammuna was made. As for lbn Kammuna, he was put into a leather-covered box and carried to Hilla where his son was then serving as official. There he stayed for a time until he die..


    that is what happens if you write anything against Islam from Islam dominated nations., It was same in 7th century and it is same in 21st century.. and and story goes..on  ..in 13 century all Ibns of Arabian peninsula left their religions either they ran away or converted to Islam..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #6 - January 19, 2014, 04:06 PM

    @yeezevee

    Yes, true. He must be special that we still quote him. Bet, all of the other critics were executed right there.
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #7 - January 19, 2014, 05:03 PM

    @yeezevee

    Yes, true. He must be special that we still quote him. Bet, all of the other critics were executed right there.

     pride it would  be interesting to look in to these "Ibn Tribe of Arabia" that was there before Islam, during Islam and medieval times and put that literature in this thread.. Anyways somewhere on hard disk i have book on this guy...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #8 - January 19, 2014, 07:26 PM

    Converts outside of the established non-Muslim cultures can be explained by the disconnect between religion and society in the Western world. Islam is also exotic. It appears to still retain the unified world view no longer shared by Christianity. Of course those proselytizing ignore history when it suits them. Islam provides a foundation on which a world view can be formed. Many people disfranchised with religion and society lack a foundation which is acceptable to them. Some can not resolve apparent nihilism they face without a religious foundation. They can not find a new world view so retreat back to the quick and easy method of religion and it's answers, a coping mechanism.
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #9 - January 20, 2014, 01:41 AM

    Converts outside of the established non-Muslim cultures can be explained by the disconnect between religion and society in the Western world. Islam is also exotic. It appears to still retain the unified world view no longer shared by Christianity. Of course those proselytizing ignore history when it suits them. Islam provides a foundation on which a world view can be formed. Many people disfranchised with religion and society lack a foundation which is acceptable to them. Some can not resolve apparent nihilism they face without a religious foundation. They can not find a new world view so retreat back to the quick and easy method of religion and it's answers, a coping mechanism.


    Good points, all.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #10 - January 20, 2014, 06:14 AM

    pride it would  be interesting to look in to these "Ibn Tribe of Arabia" that was there before Islam, during Islam and medieval times and put that literature in this thread.. Anyways somewhere on hard disk i have book on this guy...


    Send me some?
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #11 - January 20, 2014, 06:21 PM

    Interesting thread, Ibn Kammuna was of course correct, though I wonder if you could say the same thing about any religion, not just Islam...

    But nowadays we should add on to that list the superficial modern reasons to do with "identity politics".

    For example here we have Jordan Richter, ex-professional skateboarder from the early 90s explaining that he converted to Islam because he hated his white skin and thought Islam was cool because rappers were singing about it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVkmxNIdP1I#t=16m28s


    Sometimes I question the sincerity of people like this.
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #12 - January 20, 2014, 06:48 PM

    Send me some?

     well let us start here Pride

    A Jewish Philosopher of Baghdad: Izz Al-dawla Ibn Kammuna

    That book will disappear.. download ASAP..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • This guy wrote the best, Must read quotation
     Reply #13 - January 22, 2014, 12:31 PM

    Wow! thnkyu Smiley
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