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 Topic: Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook

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  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #180 - September 19, 2013, 05:52 AM

    But see, that's what gets me. The idea of it not supposed to be taken literally. Then what's the point in any of it?

    The point is to provide comfort for the believer. If they reject it as all bollocks they feel they will be alone in an uncaring universe. This bugs them big time, and they desperately want to avoid feeling like that. This means they need a holy book like a junkie needs smack.

    Quote
    What's the point in having a story of a talking snake in a magic garden if that's all nonsense?

    Because they want to believe their god is good, so they have to explain away all the nasty stuff in the world. There's no real way of doing this satisfactorily, so they have to rely on silly stories. These days the saner ones claim these stories are allegorical.

    Quote
    What's the point in talking about original sin if there was no original sin?

    Oh they believe there was original sin, just no Adam and Eve or Garden of Eden as such. How the fuck does that work? It doesn't. Not really. At this point, you'll usually be asked to continue engaging in a "respectful exchange of views", preferably without insisting on answers to gnarly questions.

    This is a retarded debate.

    It's a silly religion. The reference material is rather limited. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #181 - September 19, 2013, 05:53 AM

    PRAISE HIM

    fuck you
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #182 - September 19, 2013, 05:54 AM

    Man that geezer has a bigger gut that I have, and I'm thirty years older. Fucker needs a t shirt. bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #183 - September 19, 2013, 05:57 AM

    Look we all see you bearing your teeth, but don't feel jealous or threatened simply because Gucci is more man than you, rather you should feel loved and at peace.

    fuck you
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #184 - September 19, 2013, 05:59 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6GeVcee7S4

    fuck you
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #185 - September 19, 2013, 06:28 AM

    K, so ignoring Q's latest crush (get a room hey).......................

    One thing I've often thought is that the old pagan religions often made more sense in some ways than the latest trendy monotheisms. The sheer amount of bureaucracy was a bit over the top, but at least they didn't try to pretend that their gods were perfect and always benevolent. They actually had dieties whose natures could be reconciled with what happens in the world at large (IOW, lotsa nasty shit). You either kissed arse or you got walloped. Sometimes you'd get walloped even if you did kiss arse. Hey ho.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #186 - September 19, 2013, 06:40 AM

    I'm quite fond of paganism. If you have to have a religion, a nature worshipping on seems the best way to go. Planet would be in a better state.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #187 - September 19, 2013, 07:00 AM

    Well yes, but then there's the other side of the social engineering coin. If you have a belief in capricious and uncaring dieties, that's arguably less likely to lead to the sort of society most of us would prefer to live in. The whole uber-benevolent shiz is much nicer and more politically correct, so in terms of results is quite possibly better in some ways. Problem is that it's all logically indefensible, so as soon as anyone seriously questions it the whole thing goes down the shitter.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #188 - September 19, 2013, 07:36 AM

    I'm not sure I'd agree pagan gods are uncaring. Some are, some aren't. And why has the Colonel posted a picture of a heavily tattooed fat man who seems to be showing off the fact he has no taste?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #189 - September 19, 2013, 08:21 AM

    He's in love. 001_wub

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #190 - September 19, 2013, 08:36 AM

    Aww piggy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #191 - September 19, 2013, 02:31 PM

    My, you folks really kept this fire burning last night. Cheesy

    Great points raised. I’m dying to see C1981’s responses. I doubt there will be anything that makes any sort of sense.

    Also, just a quick observation on this point:

    Quote
    Humans were originally created perfect and somewhere down the line they sin and they sinned so badly they cut themselves off from God.


    Overlooking the glaringly obvious cop out used here by trying to absolve an all knowing, all powerful god of the blame of making beings who would sin and piss him off, I have one question….

     If a perfect being can somehow stop being perfect, then how do we know that’s not exactly what happened with God himself? How do we know that God has not stopped being perfect? Why is that not a possibility?


  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #192 - September 19, 2013, 03:37 PM

    No, it doesn't.
    This is what is passed on to their descendants, and it it blatantly punishment for their actions.


    Yes it does.

    By the way it is not a punishment it is a consequence of their actions and because the parents were cut off from God the kids were cut off from God.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #193 - September 19, 2013, 03:42 PM

    Irrelevant, because your God had the power to choose another option. He is the omnipotent one, right?


    That would follow along the line of immaculate conception which I don't believe in.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #194 - September 19, 2013, 03:46 PM

    Wait wait wait wait. Just hang on a tick. The story of the flood came because some peasants back in the bronze age thought a local flood was global, but the bible is still divinely inspired? That's just...what? banghead

    Seriously, how can you not see this?


    The authors were divinely inspired to write down God's message. The Bible is also the story of the Jews. Basically the Bible has more then one meaning to us.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #195 - September 19, 2013, 03:48 PM

    Faith, by definition, does not require evidence. Throughout this entire conversation, you still haven't answered the main question :  Why does God punish/reward someone based upon a factor that doesn't require evidence?



    Kutta have you ever heard of the Gospel story of Doubting Thomas?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #196 - September 19, 2013, 03:49 PM

    Also..
    "Let me put it this way: God does not demand we worship him. If he did they everyone would be worshipping him like mindless drones."

    What evidence do you have to claim that God does not demand worship? Is it also faith? Your post is a logical fallacy anyways. Demanding does not equal submission.


    Outside of the Bible and theology, nothing.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #197 - September 19, 2013, 03:53 PM

    You're largely criticising the literalist view there, which is not regarded as mainstream except in fundy Baptist circles, etc. To deal with the "average Christian" you have to take into account that they believe a lot of the bible is allegory.

    The reason they believe this is because they are uncomfortably aware that, if taken literally, the Bible is a load of bollocks. Since they are desperate to salvage anything at all, they take refuge in calling it allegorical, then try to ascribe deep meaning to it.


    I don't take the Bible literally because it was never meant to be taken literally. The Bible was written by different authors, during different times, using the literary style of those times. That has to be taken into account when interpreting the Bible.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #198 - September 19, 2013, 04:02 PM

    I am skeptical due to the fact that there is an older story with evidence from another culture, the Epic of Gilgamesh.

    You really evade my points and refuse to address them. I understand you do not take everything literal. Let me just use another example to show how by turning various stories in myth you undermine the authority and claims of many figures within the Bible. Tthe Bible use bloodlines to establish the authority of prophets and kings. If certain figures within this bloodline are myth than any authority based on bloodlines crumbles. The Bible uses bloodlines to establish claims of Jesus. It also uses Adam as if a real person to show that Adam was the first perfect human that disobeyed God. His disobedience and punishment is passed on to humanity. Jesus was the last Adam. A perfect human that obeyed God. By obeying God humanity benefited from Jesus' obedience. This line of thought suggests that Adam wasn't just a concept to to teach a lesson, he was a real person that had an effect on all of humanity just as Jesus did. Adam's story flows into Jesus's own suggesting that people of the time believed Adam and his story were historic fact.

    All of the big 3 use bloodlines to establish authority for various figures. Im sure another member could provide details for Islam's point of view regarding bloodlines and the authority gained by it.




    Yes I heard of the Gilgamesh epic. The creation story of Genesis is full of symbols. There may not be a literal Adam. Adam may just be a symbol for humanity's perfection and rebellion. The reason Adam is mentioned in Jesus's genealogy is establish Jesus's humanity.

    As for your previous points I heard this theory before from Atheists. It is basically saying people to idolize their heroes turn them into semi-divine figures by making up stories about them.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #199 - September 19, 2013, 04:08 PM

    Look we all see you bearing your teeth, but don't feel jealous or threatened simply because Gucci is more man than you, rather you should feel loved and at peace.


    We love you Q-Daffi  Kiss
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #200 - September 19, 2013, 04:54 PM

    Outside of the Bible and theology, nothing.


    According to the theology, you are commanded to accept Jesus as your saviour, or else you you are put into hell. Why don't you give us evidence directly from the bible that would support your wishful interpretations?
  • Re: Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #201 - September 19, 2013, 05:06 PM

    That would follow along the line of immaculate conception which I don't believe in.


    Good. Can I cultivate you, my tilth?
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #202 - September 19, 2013, 05:18 PM

    Kutta I am Protestant but my view on Hell is more akin with Catholic theology on Hell.

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church states to die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him forever by our own free choice.  Who has died in that state? The Catechism mentions nothing of hell's population. According to the Catholic publication La Civilta Cattolica, the Church has never truly declared that a person not even Judas--has damned himself. It is basically saying it is up to God.

    The Catholic Church has never made any pronouncement on who goes to Hell and my beliefs are more akin to their stance.

    As for the Bible, if it is to be taken literally one could say all nonbelievers will go to Hell.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #203 - September 19, 2013, 05:19 PM

    Good. Can I cultivate you, my tilth?


    Go right ahead you naughty boy.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #204 - September 19, 2013, 05:50 PM

    So, I just want to get this straight and make sure I’m not misrepresenting your beliefs or anything. Here’s what I’ve surmised from your posts so far:

    Billions of years ago, God existed on his own, basking in the glory of his own perfection. We’re not entirely sure where he came from, maybe another universe, maybe he was just always there, chilling. But he was some how just completely perfect by default.

    Then, one day, he decided he wanted to have a “relationship” with some tiny, insignificant, little organisms on a small rock orbiting a relatively unimpressive star in a backwater corner of one particular galaxy.

    So, he sets conditions up on this speck of a planet perfectly to allow for life to grow and evolve under the pressures of natural selection. This means that countless wonderful and obscure life forms would live and die, only for their respective species to pointlessly go extinct under the pressures of their environments. Only the most suitable 2% will survive.

    This goes on for quite some time as God watches quietly and uninvolved, until eventually, many billions of years later, Homo sapiens emerge from this sequence, perfect, brining his plan into fruition.

    Again, God remains uninvolved for quite some time, watching as Homo sapiens develop all sorts of primitive beliefs and practices in an attempt to understand the world around them. At some point in this process, the Adam and Eve “metaphor” represents Homo sapiens’ ignorance and diversion from God’s original plan and their own original perfection.

    Fast forward to the Bronze Age and God starts “inspiring” random Middle Eastern guys to write on his behalf, but he’s not too concerned with the accuracy of what they write because it is never meant to be literal anyhow. He will condone and watch over countless acts of war, genocide, animal sacrifice, stonings, executions, and other obscene forms of violence committed in his name, never once coming out clearly against any of it.

    Then, about 2,000 years ago, he decides that he’s had enough of all of the bloodshed and sacrifice, so he’ impregnates a teenager with his son, who is really himself, so that he could kill himself in order to have a relationship with homo sapiens that he initially desired.

     But he didn’t want to make the path to a relationship with him clear, so he obscured it in all sorts of mystery, allegory, and confusion, causing for the emergence of countless schisms and sects all claiming to be “the one true way.”

    Then, to make things even more confusing, he still allowed for all other sorts of “paths” and “religions” to exist  that had nothing to do with his son/self suicide ritual, and would be really upset if you happened to believe in one of those other “ways.”

    So, he decided to make our chances at salvation to be contingent mostly on where and to whom we are born.
    If we happen to pick the right way, God will let us into his club free of charge. If we happen to choose the wrong way, he’ll hold us to account for the very nature that he created us with the propensity towards to begin with.


    Sound about right?
  • Re: Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #205 - September 19, 2013, 05:55 PM

    Their sins are not your sins. You are responsible for yourself.

    Earlier you said we are all born guilty of the original sin.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #206 - September 19, 2013, 05:58 PM

    So, I just want to get this straight and make sure I’m not misrepresenting your beliefs or anything. Here’s what I’ve surmised from your posts so far:

    Billions of years ago, God existed on his own, basking in the glory of his own perfection. We’re not entirely sure where he came from, maybe another universe, maybe he was just always there, chilling. But he was some how just completely perfect by default.

    Then, one day, he decided he wanted to have a “relationship” with some tiny, insignificant, little organisms on a small rock orbiting a relatively unimpressive star in a backwater corner of one particular galaxy.

    So, he sets conditions up on this speck of a planet perfectly to allow for life to grow and evolve under the pressures of natural selection. This means that countless wonderful and obscure life forms would live and die, only for their respective species to pointlessly go extinct under the pressures of their environments. Only the most suitable 2% will survive.

    This goes on for quite some time as God watches quietly and uninvolved, until eventually, many billions of years later, Homo sapiens emerge from this sequence, perfect, brining his plan into fruition.

    Again, God remains uninvolved for quite some time, watching as Homo sapiens develop all sorts of primitive beliefs and practices in an attempt to understand the world around them. At some point in this process, the Adam and Eve “metaphor” represents Homo sapiens’ ignorance and diversion from God’s original plan and their own original perfection.

    Fast forward to the Bronze Age and God starts “inspiring” random Middle Eastern guys to write on his behalf, but he’s not too concerned with the accuracy of what they write because it is never meant to be literal anyhow. He will condone and watch over countless acts of war, genocide, animal sacrifice, stonings, executions, and other obscene forms of violence committed in his name, never once coming out clearly against any of it.

    Then, about 2,000 years ago, he decides that he’s had enough of all of the bloodshed and sacrifice, so he’ impregnates a teenager with his son, who is really himself, so that he could kill himself in order to have a relationship with homo sapiens that he initially desired.

     But he didn’t want to make the path to a relationship with him clear, so he obscured it in all sorts of mystery, allegory, and confusion, causing for the emergence of countless schisms and sects all claiming to be “the one true way.”

    Then, to make things even more confusing, he still allowed for all other sorts of “paths” and “religions” to exist  that had nothing to do with his son/self suicide ritual, and would be really upset if you happened to believe in one of those other “ways.”

    So, he decided to make our chances at salvation to be contingent mostly on where and to whom we are born.
    If we happen to pick the right way, God will let us into his club free of charge. If we happen to choose the wrong way, he’ll hold us to account for the very nature that he created us with the propensity towards to begin with.


    Sound about right?



    Perfect,  Afro
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #207 - September 19, 2013, 06:01 PM

    So, I just want to get this straight and make sure I’m not misrepresenting your beliefs or anything. Here’s what I’ve surmised from your posts so far:

    Billions of years ago, God existed on his own, basking in the glory of his own perfection. We’re not entirely sure where he came from, maybe another universe, maybe he was just always there, chilling. But he was some how just completely perfect by default.

    Then, one day, he decided he wanted to have a “relationship” with some tiny, insignificant, little organisms on a small rock orbiting a relatively unimpressive star in a backwater corner of one particular galaxy.

    So, he sets conditions up on this speck of a planet perfectly to allow for life to grow and evolve under the pressures of natural selection. This means that countless wonderful and obscure life forms would live and die, only for their respective species to pointlessly go extinct under the pressures of their environments. Only the most suitable 2% will survive.

    This goes on for quite some time as God watches quietly and uninvolved, until eventually, many billions of years later, Homo sapiens emerge from this sequence, perfect, brining his plan into fruition.

    Again, God remains uninvolved for quite some time, watching as Homo sapiens develop all sorts of primitive beliefs and practices in an attempt to understand the world around them. At some point in this process, the Adam and Eve “metaphor” represents Homo sapiens’ ignorance and diversion from God’s original plan and their own original perfection.

    Fast forward to the Bronze Age and God starts “inspiring” random Middle Eastern guys to write on his behalf, but he’s not too concerned with the accuracy of what they write because it is never meant to be literal anyhow. He will condone and watch over countless acts of war, genocide, animal sacrifice, stonings, executions, and other obscene forms of violence committed in his name, never once coming out clearly against any of it.

    Then, about 2,000 years ago, he decides that he’s had enough of all of the bloodshed and sacrifice, so he’ impregnates a teenager with his son, who is really himself, so that he could kill himself in order to have a relationship with homo sapiens that he initially desired.

     But he didn’t want to make the path to a relationship with him clear, so he obscured it in all sorts of mystery, allegory, and confusion, causing for the emergence of countless schisms and sects all claiming to be “the one true way.”

    Then, to make things even more confusing, he still allowed for all other sorts of “paths” and “religions” to exist  that had nothing to do with his son/self suicide ritual, and would be really upset if you happened to believe in one of those other “ways.”

    So, he decided to make our chances at salvation to be contingent mostly on where and to whom we are born.
    If we happen to pick the right way, God will let us into his club free of charge. If we happen to choose the wrong way, he’ll hold us to account for the very nature that he created us with the propensity towards to begin with.


    Sound about right?



    You are fairly close. One thing is God's plan of salvation was prophecied in the book of Genesis after the fall of man. Meaning since the fall of man God had a plan to bring salvation into the world. The Jews because of their relationship with God were chosen for this plan.

    By the way I am still having trouble accepting the idea of humans and apes having a common ancestor. But I do believe in early humans.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #208 - September 19, 2013, 06:01 PM

    Earlier you said we are all born guilty of the original sin.


    I also said original sin is human nature. We are responsible for ourselves.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #209 - September 19, 2013, 06:03 PM

    If HM is very close, I am surprised at how you don't see the sheer idiocy and uselessness of this "plan".
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