Hi, I'm new and I'm lost.
Reply #36 - July 19, 2013, 08:47 AM
Hey Seeker, I truly hope you find some comfort here if not answers.
I thought I may open up to you and perhaps some insights into my own life may offer you something.
I'm not religious. I don't believe any of them to be true. It's not that I'm hostile towards religion, any religion, it's simply that I don't believe them. As someone who participated in Dawah I'm sure you realise that it's all about making sense. That's it in a nutshell.
I actually have a friend who converted to Hinduism. He read many religious books and studied in depth but it was never for him. Then one day he read the sacred texts of Hinduism, read the books of Hindu scholars, and that was it. It just clicked. Everything fell into place, everything made sense. He still wishes people a Merry Christmas and gives and receives gifts, and goes along with the tradition, not because he believes in it in a religious sense, he just thinks showing your appreciation to loved ones and the message of peace and goodwill to all the world is a good thing. Diwali is different, it's not just a nice tradition to him, it's truly a matter of faith. Come Diwali he'll dress in religious clothes, participate in the festivals, close his eyes in contemplation, pray, and affirm his faith in the divine, which he calls Krishna or Vishnu.
I also celebrate Christmas but am not a Christian. Last Christmas was spent at the house of a very good friend. I gave her a gift of emotional significance It's a nice feeling, knowing someone cares enough to search for something special and knows you enough to know what you like. We spend Christmas sitting together drinking red wine and talking long into the night.
She lived for a time in quite a religious environment and believed but currently classes herself as an agnostic. At one point she asked me if I believed in reincarnation. I said no, I don't believe in anything supernatural. She asked me to be specific, so I was. That in my eyes religious teaching don't exist. No gods or devils. No angels or demons. No heaven or hell. No reincarnation. No karma.
But that doesn't mean I don't believe in anything, or that I have no codes or moral guidelines. I believe in honour. I believe in integrity. I believe in friendship. I believe in loyalty, I believe in truth. I believe in mercy. I believe in love.
I've always searched for the truth in things. I think it's something different about us currently, from what you've said. I'd rather have a painful truth than a happy lie. I don't think that no god equals no meaning. I don't think no afterlife equals worthless life. My mother doesn't believe in an afterlife. She believes that when she dies that's it. The end. She will cease to exist. And yet she would give her life for me without hesitation, with no promise of reward. She would do this because I'm her child. She loves me.
I've loved as well. I've loved so powerfully I'm consumed by it. The type of love where the very idea of someone hurting them turns the blood in your veins to liquid fire. I would die for those I love.
I also believe in family. But when I say family I don't classify that as blood alone. To me family is more than biology. There are men and women in my life who are not my blood, but they are my family. Family is the ties that bind. Bonds of trust and loyalty maintained and strengthened year after year. Family is comfort in times of sorrow and laughter in times of joy. It's selflessness. It's having someone who will go out of their way to be there for you if you need them.
Part of what you said reminded me of last year. Two friends who are a couple, the woman who at the time was pregnant. Today they have a beautiful daughter. When I was staying with them it was in the six month of pregnancy. I was her friend before I was his, I met him through her and we got on and grew close.
They live rurally out in the countryside. It was in the evening and I was sitting outside enjoying the Autumn night air. My friend came outside to sit with me. She seemed upset. She began talking about her childhood. In the years I've known her she's never dwelled much on the past, more on the present and the future, but was reflecting on her life to this point and the future life of her daughter. The conversation wasn't a happy one. At one point I said "You've never really told me about your childhood before. From what I know, I don't think I'd call it abusive, but it was definitely neglectful." She went quiet and told me when she was a child her father had raped her. The conversation went on. While staying with the two of them it was obvious she was depressed. In fact while we sat there I told her that, and that she was displaying textbook symptoms of clinical depression. I can't quote exact word for word, but .I remember the basic reply.
"I know. But I deal with it."
"Bollocks do you. You try to shove it deep down. But its always there, every second of every day. You don't deal with it, you manage it." She didn't say anything, just looked off into the dark. We were silent for a moment then I spoke.
"You ever hear the saying all that matters is what's in your heart?"
"Yeah."
"It's bullshit." She looked at me. "Right now what's in your heart is blackness and bile. But that's not the be all and end all unless you allow it. All that matters is what's in your heart is a lie for cowards to comfort themselves. What matters are our choices, and you have two in front of you. Number one, do nothing. Stay as you are, letting the depression get worse and worse. Or, number to, get help. Actually deal with it, get past it, and let it be a rapidly fading memory. There is no third choice. Whichever one you choose, that's who you are."
These are only very select things out of a long conversation but I thought maybe it would apply. I don't think because there's no god her life is meaningless. She's a new mother figuring out how to be a parent and both her and the father are devoted to their child.
Once upon a time I was on a train, sitting next to a Christian. I noticed he was wearing a cross. The ride lasted for hours and we had a conversation. I've always been very open and enjoy meeting new people. He confessed to me he was having a crisis of faith. If you don't give yourself to Jesus and accept him as your saviour you go to hell. He mentioned Gandhi, someone who was not a Christian but was a good man. He questioned his faith in a just merciful god who would send Gandhi to hell just for belonging to the wrong religion. I mentioned some Priests who have said publicly they believe good people who aren't Christians will go to heaven precisely because these Priests believe in a just and merciful god. This seemed to make him feel better. I also offered the opinion that perhaps you could follow Jesus in a way other than being a Christian. You don't have to believe he was god made flesh to see he had good teachings any more than you have to be Muslim to see the beauty and the poetry in the Quran. Do unto others as you would have done unto you, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, judge not lest ye be judged yourself, I think whatever your religion, or lack of religion, you can see the wisdom in that. Perhaps if your own life was lived in this Christ like way that would be following Jesus. Though Gandhi was a Hindu no one can deny many of his teachings and the way he lived his life is exactly how Christians try to live. If god truly is loving just and merciful the idea of a good person being punished for eternity is oxymoronic.
You may say this is picking and choosing, and you're right. That's exactly what it is. Having no god myself makes this rather easy. I can take the parts of the sunnahs and hadiths, and parts from any other religion or philosophy I like and discard the rest, and if I think parts of them do have good teachings I can or should apply, why not?
A physicist (I think it was Lawrence Krauss but I may be wrong) spoke about how we're the children of stars. That we have the same makeup as stars, just like the star we orbit, the sun. That the atoms in our left hand probably come from a different star than the atoms in our right hand. Think about that. Really think about it. For us to live, stars had to die. The physicist said it's the most beautiful, the most poetic thing in all of physics. But the thing is, physics doesn't care. Science has no heart, it has no soul. It's a tool to explore and gain knowledge. It takes the human mind, the human heart, to see the poetry, to see the beauty.
Which suddenly has me thinking about a number of debates I've watch, which I'm sure you've watched as well. It will be an atheist debating a theist, usually a Christian or a Muslim. Any every time, the atheist will ask the question "Would you really go out and steal, rape, murder if you lost your belief in god?" And every time the theist will say yes and every time the atheist won't expect that yes. The fact that the atheists keep being surprised by that yes should tell you more than the entire debate.
You said if there is no God, then what is the meaning and purpose of life? I think the answer to that is you have to find it for yourself. Being an atheist myself obviously I still follow codes and live a moral life without the threat of a god, without the threat of hellfire. In fact, I truly believe that if in the end nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do. And even the smallest act of kindness can be the greatest thing in the world.
Where morals come from, I'd say us. It's ingrained into us on an evolutionary level because we're a social species. It's not just humans. In a wolf pack, if one wolf is to sick or old to hunt other wolves will hunt for it, sometimes chewing the food to make it easier for the sick/old wolf to eat. Primates will care for and guide other primates in their group who may be blind or have some other kind of disability. Dogs will run into a burning building to alert it's sleeping owners, or drag out a child. If we had evolved differently, into more solitary creatures, any morals we had would be alien to us from our current viewpoint I imagine we'd still have communication and trade because it would benefit us. But yes, morals, right, wrong, good, evil, these are human inventions.
You may think that if it's just something we made up they aren't real. Obviously they are. The fact they come from us in no way lessens this. I don't know you. I've never met you. You aren't my friend, or my lover, or my sibling. You're words on a screen. But still myself and others are trying to advise and to comfort. We do this because as human being we have empathy. You are a fellow human being and you are in pain, and myself and others understand this. It's the basis of morality. I understand it and I empathise with you as much as I can because I'm not a psychopath. When I see a fellow human being suffering I am moved to try and offer comfort. I'm rather tired right now so may not be making as much sense as I would if I were more awake and alert. Perhaps I've failed. Perhaps there's nothing I've said to ease your pain. But I've tried and I'll continue try if needed.
I'm not sure if you read my intro but I said that we are so lucky to be alive, and while we live we matter. We are here. We exist. And that's fantastic. In all the world, in all the universe, you are unique. There'll only ever be one of you. And you matter.
`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
Topic: Hi, I'm new and I'm lost.