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Theme Changer

 Topic: Unhappyness

 (Read 7361 times)
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  • Unhappyness
     OP - April 11, 2013, 10:57 PM

    hey guys, I havent been active in this forum since I registered but I just wanted to share something that has been depressing for me for years. Since I left Islam in 5 years ago I also lost what I thought was my meaning of life. It gave me security, becuse I had a place in life. I was created for something and everything I did was of importance to a higher being. I now feel I dont have this. I feel life is pointless, I have no real place in this world. And it is not only for myself, but for humanity. It seems all so pointless. evolved beings living as some sort of civilized animals, then they finally die and seize to exist. This makes me so discouraged. What is it that is uplifting with conscious life?

    i know this sounds like the boring moaning of a depressed person, but I think its more than depression. Everyone who has existensial problems cant be "only depressed" etc. So what do you guys think?
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #1 - April 11, 2013, 11:02 PM

    You might like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #2 - April 11, 2013, 11:13 PM

    Ines,
    I think the biggest problem we the community of murtaddeen face is the lack of empathy from our most dearest ones, parents, family in general, in many cases even many lifelong friends.
    This renders it extremely likely that most of us in become more or less depressed.

    There is indeed nothing inherently depressing about (dis)belief.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #3 - April 11, 2013, 11:30 PM

    It is depressing. Life is utterly pointless, yet in this pointlessness we have to go through shit and fuck just because of the way the social, political...and every other fucking system set up, works.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #4 - April 11, 2013, 11:47 PM

    I don’t think there is anyone who doesn’t know what you’re talking about. What would it after all mean to be an evolved mammal in the incomprehensible nothingness of the universe? What would it mean to feel sad and alone in a universe like this? It would mean that when you out of despair cry out “why me”, the universe barely bothers to compose the answer “why not?” With the realization that there is no fatherly force out there, comes the concession that you might also have thought of yourself in a very conceited way.

    This lesson in self-limitation will show you exactly how arrogant it is to think of oneself as meaningful in a cosmos whose scales are so colossal and whose environment is so hostile. In this I sometimes find comfort, while I other times succumb to the constraints of my vocabulary. Comfort because I know I have won, what Dawkins called, the lottery of life. The attitude on life as an exceptional shot at consciousness, at sadness and misery, at love and friendship despite tremendous odds, is to me a consoling thing.

    Other times, I miserably fail to articulate anything of what present existence feels like. What it really is to be, with all its attendant misery and pain and the flickers of irony and smiles. It is in those moments you become the captive of literature, poetry, music and art. It’s in these moments you can connect with contemporaries or conscious beings before you. When Omar Khayyam admitted a thousand years ago that “there was a door to which he found no keyand a “veil through which he might not see”, I found that in a way, his consciousness outlived his body, because his thoughts are still with us. He knew of the taunting irony of life and with it he found consolation in the inconsolable(!). And in that I also find that death isn't absolutely annihilating. Because you'll leave something, anything behind, with which you'll hope to touch or inspire a grain of consciousness after your death.

    And as I'm also a hedonist, nothing swells life like a single malt scotch, a good joke or a good round of sex. Although I wouldn't say family and friends would be a trivial thing to give your life to either. Wink

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #5 - April 12, 2013, 12:05 AM

    I think the issue is not that there is no meaning to life, but rather what you had always thought the meaning of life was you now realize is not real.

    My perspective is the exact opposite you see, I was raised an atheist and I have always had a positive outlook on life and humanity, but if I was to find out all of a sudden that there was a God who created the Earth and humanity for his pleasure or as a "test", I think that would make me very depressed. I would pretty much lose all interest and excitement about the world. Nothing would seem interesting anymore, humanity would not be so special anymore, we would just be some toys created for the pleasure of this god, no longer something unique in the universe, whose future is worth fighting for.

    I don't know if that helps and it is probably very hard to explain, because I have tried to explain this perspective before to theists, but they don't seem to get it. Have you ever seen the Truman Show? Jim Carry finds out that his whole life was just a game show, not real, and everything that he had done in his life was just entertainment for tv, that is kind like how I would feel if I found out there was a creator God.

  • Unhappyness
     Reply #6 - April 12, 2013, 12:41 AM

    Ishina: that was encouraging. Thank you!

    isfandiyar: yes, that's a point. Ive had many family problems the last years because of Islam. but I also have existential problems. Where do I fit in, meaning of my life, what should I do with my life, my ambitions etc. These questions make me unhappy because Ive no good answers and sure my family problems doesnt help. :/

    Stardust: that's exactly how I feel. :((

    Minimow: what a beautiful and eloquent comment! Sometimes things are brighter when you look at it from another angle. Thank you!

    tonyt: I know what u mean. Youre used to one way of life and youre happy with it, until you find out that nothing of it was true and you feel sad and depressed. I can relate to those feelings yes. Maybe Im looking for something to replace what Islam gave me. some security maybe and some predictabiliy in life.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #7 - April 12, 2013, 12:52 AM

    When I look at the history of humanity, and all of the things that we have achieved over the millennia, the building and planning of great cities, the technology that we have developed, that art that has been created, the societies that we have created and the morals that we have gradually evolved, and all the great things that humanity has yet to achieve, because let’s face it, humanity has only existed for a few thousand years and we will probably be around for at least another million. Think of all the worlds out there that our descendants will one day explore!

    Now the theist view is that all of this is temporary, that this universe is not even a real one, it is artificial, created by a God as some experiment with a definitive ending date, over which we humans have no control. So all the great figures in history, and all the things they achieved, both for the good and for the bad, all of it was utterly pointless, a total waste of time: Hammurabi, Sargon of Akkad, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Justinian, Darwin, Einstein, Newton, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, etc. etc. Why did Julius Caesar cross the Rubicon River and end the Roman Republic? If there is a God then this act has no purpose, he may as well have just stayed at home and done nothing with his life.

    Whenever I hear a theist talking about “Judgement Day”, I always think to myself, wow, what a terribly pessimistic and uninspiring view of the Universe these religious people have! They actually believe that all of this universe, so rich and vast, and all of the achievements of the billions of people that have lived on this planet, it is all about to just disappear, as if it never happened.

    Now I know that scientists also believe that the Universe will not last forever either, but at least it is an open-ended question, there is no definitive end in sight. Perhaps in a billion years the Universe will end and everything that humanity achieved will disappear, but a billion years is a very long time, and by that time we may have the technology to prolong the Universe indefinitely.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #8 - April 12, 2013, 01:10 AM

    Really beautiful responses everyone. I needed this too.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #9 - April 12, 2013, 04:34 AM

    It is depressing. Life is utterly pointless, yet in this pointlessness we have to go through shit and fuck just because of the way the social, political...and every other fucking system set up, works.


    No it's not. When you start your life by calling it depressing, you automatically have a short-term memory for the good things that happen to you, and a long-term memory of things that cause depression. It's just a matter of perspective.

    Shift your perspective, and appreciate all the things you have in the present moment.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #10 - April 12, 2013, 05:59 AM

    lol@ cosmic lottery.  I hear that considering where I personally come from and how my life turned out, its like winning the powerball maybe not for the mega jackpot but at least a few million.


    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #11 - April 12, 2013, 07:50 AM

    No it's not. When you start your life by calling it depressing, you automatically have a short-term memory for the good things that happen to you, and a long-term memory of things that cause depression. It's just a matter of perspective.

    Shift your perspective, and appreciate all the things you have in the present moment.


    Or perhaps there just happens to be more shit than good to recall?

    In the present moment my mother wishes I were dead and thinks I'm crazy.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #12 - April 12, 2013, 08:42 AM

    Ultimately, seeking out parental approval is a fool's game.

    Your mother may be special to you, but her reality-altering powers are limited by how much you buy into them.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #13 - April 12, 2013, 12:37 PM

    Or perhaps there just happens to be more shit than good to recall?

    In the present moment my mother wishes I were dead and thinks I'm crazy.


    Dusty, sometimes we have to come to realize that being stressed out by even the people we care about the most is simply not in our best interest. You have achieved so much more than 90% of people you age, and if your mother is anything but proud to have you as a daughter, then shame on her. She is the one with the problem and she is the one who needs to change. Not you.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #14 - April 12, 2013, 01:53 PM

    Or perhaps there just happens to be more shit than good to recall?

    In the present moment my mother wishes I were dead and thinks I'm crazy.


    If your mother wishes that such a free-thinking, innocent person like you deserves death, then we both know who is actually crazy. I'm sorry. I know and understand that it is one of the hardest facts that you have to fathom, but like HM said, you are not the source of the problem.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #15 - April 12, 2013, 02:55 PM

    Thanks, guys. All sound advice. Emotional ties are not so easy to cut, especially with family, it is getting easier over time.

    Let's not derail from the original thread topic!

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #16 - April 12, 2013, 03:34 PM

    Now the theist view is that all of this is temporary, that this universe is not even a real one, it is artificial, created by a God as some experiment with a definitive ending date, over which we humans have no control. So all the great figures in history, and all the things they achieved, both for the good and for the bad, all of it was utterly pointless, a total waste of time: Hammurabi, Sargon of Akkad, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Justinian, Darwin, Einstein, Newton, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, etc. etc. Why did Julius Caesar cross the Rubicon River and end the Roman Republic? If there is a God then this act has no purpose, he may as well have just stayed at home and done nothing with his life.


    Yeah, good point. To Muhammed the worldly life was comparable to a life in prison while Jesus told his followers to take no thought for the morrow. These were hysterical fanatics who really believed that end times was upon them. This renders culture and literature, science and discovery not only pointless, but it also makes all these things mere obstacles to the kind of crazed worship needed to salvage something from the dungeon we so rudely and optimistically call life. grin12 . Stupid disbelievers!

    Or perhaps there just happens to be more shit than good to recall?

    In the present moment my mother wishes I were dead and thinks I'm crazy.


    I'm not going to be diplomatic here, Stardust. When you have no or little reason to feel happy and all the reasons to feel depressed, well then you really can't help but feel sad. I know how that feels like. But in my own experience, I don't think I have in that case the right to then drench myself in self-pity. That is unless I'm the infamous Rwandan girl, who had lost every single person she knew to the genocide. No one to tease her about her first love and no one to tell her about her first words. In fact, no one to confirm to that her whole life and all of her joyful and sad memories aren't mere hallucinations. If tabula rasa means anything, it is surely this? What else can this girl (and those like her) have but capitulation and self-pity?

    So to feel sad or depressed is not a completely hopeless state to be in, if it doesn't contaminate your foresightedness, your sense of perspective, your dreams and ambitions etc. (not that I'm directly writing to you, as I know you do have talents and goals, but just to get some thoughts out.)

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #17 - April 12, 2013, 04:22 PM

    Life isnt pointless. When I first became an apostate I was angry... very angry and also felt lost because its like my foundation was taken from me. I soon realized though that we build our own foundation. We can direct our own lives. We give our life the purpose we want to give it. You know when I was heavily into the sufi tradition I also believed that I should do good for the sake of doing good and not for the reward of heaven or the fear of hell. Back then this concept was the height of piety and selflessness. I realize now that it is even more true that I am not a believer. I don't need God and I dont need Islam to have a desire to do my best, to do good and to help others.

    So what if there is no reward in it in some imaginary hereafter. I'm happy knowing that whatever good I do will live on in this world through my words and actions. I'm happy knowing that I have used my abilities and opportunities to give others something they might not have had if I had not existed. We can all do this because we are unique and with our own talents and abilities and strengths.

    For those going through a hard time right now please hang in there. Difficulty now can be a source of strength after you overcome. Swords are forged with fire and hammers after all. Just try and change your mindset from one of being beaten down by life to be beaten into shape by life and picture your future strength and your future goals throughout the process.

    Big hugs to you all! Smiley

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #18 - April 12, 2013, 04:33 PM

    Life isnt pointless. When I first became an apostate I was angry... very angry and also felt lost because its like my foundation was taken from me. I soon realized though that we build our own foundation. We can direct our own lives. We give our life the purpose we want to give it. You know when I was heavily into the sufi tradition I also believed that I should do good for the sake of doing good and not for the reward of heaven or the fear of hell. Back then this concept was the height of piety and selflessness. I realize now that it is even more true that I am not a believer. I don't need God and I dont need Islam to have a desire to do my best, to do good and to help others.

    So what if there is no reward in it in some imaginary hereafter. I'm happy knowing that whatever good I do will live on in this world through my words and actions. I'm happy knowing that I have used my abilities and opportunities to give others something they might not have had if I had not existed. We can all do this because we are unique and with our own talents and abilities and strengths.

    For those going through a hard time right now please hang in there. Difficulty now can be a source of strength after you overcome. Swords are forged with fire and hammers after all. Just try and change your mindset from one of being beaten down by life to be beaten into shape by life and picture your future strength and your future goals throughout the process.

    Big hugs to you all! Smiley

      Damn.,    I was thinking  you are a lucky  guy to have two wonderful daughters., but I say those two kiddoos are lucky to have you as dad Pepe..,  Life is already tough for women folks., on top of that fucking religions make it worse.. and without doubt Islam is worst of all and Islamic society made sure that it stays like that.. 

    But I say .. Girls must learn to fight out...,    hell with the past.. this is 21st century..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Unhappyness
     Reply #19 - April 12, 2013, 04:43 PM

     Smiley life doesn't have to have a meaning, or a goal line to be important, or worth while..  at least that's my own opinion
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