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Theme Changer

 Topic: Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton

 (Read 3542 times)
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  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     OP - December 09, 2012, 10:42 AM

    The "theologist" Lesley Hazleton gives her SECOND (apparently one odious talk wasn't enough) TEDxRainier lecture on the virtues and tolerance of Muhammad. She is releasing her "biography" of the "prophet" in January 2013.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9aC7bUTBKv0
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #1 - December 09, 2012, 10:53 AM

    What a senile old silly lady.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #2 - December 09, 2012, 11:03 AM

    The "theologist" Lesley Hazleton gives her SECOND (apparently one odious talk wasn't enough) TEDxRainier lecture on the virtues and tolerance of Muhammad. She is releasing her "biography" of the "prophet" in January 2013.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9aC7bUTBKv0

     The world needs Lesley Hazletons and Karen Armstrongs and their freedom to express freely on any chosen subject they like redriding.  There is absolutely  nothing wrong in it. .

     She may be  wrong on her story of Muhammad  which  she gets from  looking at Muhammad through what  Muslims and non Muslim are doing now a days and what has written about that character in Hadith/Quran/Sunnah... but She must have all rights to express freely what she thnks has happened on that historical Muhammad figure.  You see as long as you and have the freedom + right to question  Lesley Hazletons,  Karen Armstrongs, Quran, hadith, sunnah, Islam, Mullahs/ Mosque and what goes on in mosques  and what goes on with Islamic rulers, Islamic rituals, Islamic rules,Islamic justice  etc..etc.. we should not have any problems with people like Lesley Hazletons and we should not have problem with Muslims and Islam..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #3 - December 09, 2012, 11:08 AM

    I've encountered people like her before. They're the sort that think that any religius text belonging to "one of the world's great religions" just has to be good (because it's religious innit) and that any prophet of any such religion must have been a really cool person (because it's religious innit so it must be spiritual so....).

    If you try to suggest that hey, maybe it's a what you see in the texts is what you get deal, they will just refuse to accept that. They are already convinced that it must, somehow, be good and all their thoughts are devoted to thinking of ways it could be good.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #4 - December 09, 2012, 12:39 PM

    Lesley Hazleton's work on Islam..

    After the Prophet: The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split in Islam_  Lesley Hazleton2009
    The First Muslim:_The Story of Muhammad Lesley Hazleton coming out in the next year 2013

    well that is her background on Islam.. She is a Modern Liberated woman so she looks at the early Islam through those glasses NOT HISTORICAL point of truth not exploring the facts .. she is more of  an emotional story teller...   let me add some tubes around her subject..

    Lesley Hazleton: "Prophet Muhammad : Where did Humanity Go Wrong?"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-hTxDvRVlo

    Humanity? nonsense.,    Humanity didn't go wrong.. Muslim fools preaching Mosques and the Muslim rulers who ran through Middle East with in 50 years alleged Prophet's death gone wrong.. NOT HUMANITY..


    must watch !!...Lesley Hazleton and others Scientists Comment on the Quran
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-hTxDvRVlo

    And that is from a Muslim fool.. making a tube from copy/pasting other tubes.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #5 - December 09, 2012, 05:31 PM

    I've encountered people like her before. They're the sort that think that any religius text belonging to "one of the world's great religions" just has to be good (because it's religious innit) and that any prophet of any such religion must have been a really cool person (because it's religious innit so it must be spiritual so....).

    If you try to suggest that hey, maybe it's a what you see in the texts is what you get deal, they will just refuse to accept that. They are already convinced that it must, somehow, be good and all their thoughts are devoted to thinking of ways it could be good.


    I 've met such people , too. They usually start and end every conversation with; but every religion has good message for humanity.  Roll Eyes

    Isn't it funny how cats can understand people without ever reading a single psychology book?
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #6 - December 09, 2012, 05:40 PM

    Quote
    she is more of  an emotional story teller


    It's warm and fuzzy, like a mother. People like it. I like it too. Then reality hits.. mysmilie_977

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #7 - December 10, 2012, 03:38 AM

     
    The world needs Lesley Hazletons and Karen Armstrongs and their freedom to express freely on any chosen subject they like redriding.  There is absolutely  nothing wrong in it. .

     She may be  wrong on her story of Muhammad  which  she gets from  looking at Muhammad through what  Muslims and non Muslim are doing now a days and what has written about that character in Hadith/Quran/Sunnah... but She must have all rights to express freely what she thnks has happened on that historical Muhammad figure.  You see as long as you and have the freedom + right to question  Lesley Hazletons,  Karen Armstrongs, Quran, hadith, sunnah, Islam, Mullahs/ Mosque and what goes on in mosques  and what goes on with Islamic rulers, Islamic rituals, Islamic rules,Islamic justice  etc..etc.. we should not have any problems with people like Lesley Hazletons and we should not have problem with Muslims and Islam..



    I don't think the world *needs* Lesley Hazletons and Karen Armstrongs. One consolation, though: I think these people are very good at watering down the religion. Soon there will be nothing lift.
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #8 - December 10, 2012, 11:03 AM

    Quote
    I think these people are very good at watering down the religion. Soon there will be nothing lift.


    That's one way of looking at it.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #9 - December 10, 2012, 08:00 PM

    But somethings do not even hit their radar!

    http://blog.tedx.com/post/37405280671/a-letter-to-the-tedx-community-on-tedx-and-bad-science

    Quote
    Below is an email sent to the TEDx community regarding our view on bad science/pseudoscience talks at TEDx events.

    ————————————————————————————————————

    Hello TEDx Community,

    In light of a few suspect talks that have come out of the TEDx movement — some of which we at TED have taken action to remove, some being examined now — and this recent thread on Reddit [http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1444lm/the_ted_name_is_being_dragged_through_the_mud_in/], we feel it is important to reach out to all TEDx organizers on the topic of bad science and pseudoscience. 

    Please know this above all:
    It is your job, before any speaker is booked, to check them out, and to reject bad science, pseudoscience and health hoaxes.

    Vetting your speakers is hard work, and can lead to uncomfortable moments. But as TEDx organizers, your audience’s trust is your top priority, over and above any other personal or business relationship that may have brought this speaker to your attention. It is not your audience’s job to figure out if a speaker is offering legitimate science or not. It is your job.

    The consequence of bad science and health hoaxes are not trivial. As an example, Andrew Wakefield’s attempt to link autism and vaccines was exposed as a hoax last year. But while his work was being investigated, millions of children went without vaccines, and many contracted deadly illnesses as a result.

    We take this seriously. Presenting bad science on the TEDx stage is grounds for revoking your license.

    The letter below has three sections, and is designed to spark conversation. It focuses on 3 areas:

    1. A short definition of bad science / pseudoscience.

    2. Common warning signs of bad science and health hoaxes — above and beyond the science itself — how can you spot trouble?

    3. Topics to watch out for, because in the past they have attracted bad science to TEDx events

    Please take the time to read this letter carefully and discuss it with your curation team. Feedback is welcome.

    1. What is bad science/pseudoscience?
    There is no bright and shining line between pseudoscience and real science, and purveyors of false wisdom typically share their theories with as much sincerity and earnestness as legitimate researchers. Needless to say, this makes it all terribly hard to detect and define.

    But here are some basic guidelines.

    Marks of good science:

    It makes claims that can be tested and verified
    It has been published in a peer reviewed journal (but beware… there are some dodgy journals out there that seem credible, but aren’t.)
    It is based on theories that are discussed and argued for by many experts in the field
    It is backed up by experiments that have generated enough data to convince other experts of its legitimacy
    Its proponents are secure enough to accept areas of doubt and need for further investigation
    It does not fly in the face of the broad existing body of scientific knowledge
    The proposed speaker works for a university and/or has a phD or other bona fide high level scientific qualification
    Marks of bad science:

    Has failed to convince many mainstream scientists of its truth
    Is not based on experiments that can be reproduced by others
    Contains experimental flaws or is based on data that does not convincingly corroborate the experimenter’s theoretical claims
    Comes from overconfident fringe experts
    Uses over-simplified interpretations of legitimate studies and may combine with imprecise, spiritual or new age vocabulary, to form new, completely untested theories.
    Speaks dismissively of mainstream science
    Includes some of the red flags listed in the two sections below
    2. Red flag topics

    These are not “banned” topics by any means — but they are topics that tend to attract pseudo-scientists. If your speaker proposes a topic like this, use extra scrutiny. An expanding, depressing list follows:

    Food science, including:

    GMO food and anti-GMO foodists
    Food as medicine, especially to treat a specific condition: Autism and ADHD, especially causes of and cures for autism
    Because of the sad history of hoaxes with deadly consequences in the field of autism research, really look into the background of any autism-related talk. If you hear anything that sounds remotely like, “Vaccines are related to autism,” — RUN AWAY. Another non-legitimate argument: “We don’t know what works, so we have to try everything.” Pretty much all the time, this argument is designed to cause guilt in suffering parents so they’ll spend money on unproven treatments.

    More:   

    “Healing,” including reiki, energy fields, alternative health and placebos, crystals, pyramid power
    “Free energy” and perpetual motion machines, alchemy, time travel
    The neuroscience of [fill in the blank] — not saying this will all be non-legitimate, but that it’s a field where a lot of goofballs are right now
    The fusion of science and spirituality. Be especially careful of anyone trying to prove the validity of their religious beliefs and practices by using science
    Look carefully at talks on these topics: ask to see published data, and find a second source, unrelated to the speaker and a recognized expert in the field, who can validate the research.

    3. Red flag behavior
    You may not be an expert on the science your speaker presents — yet — but you can easily identify and counter some common tactics that science hoaxers will use to try to get on your stage. This list is inspired by and builds off Emily Willingham’s post on Forbes: “10 questions to distinguish real from fake science.”: http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2012/11/08/10-questions-to-distinguish-real-from-fake-science/

    Be alert if a potential speaker (or the speaker’s advocate on your planning team) does any of the following things:

    Barrages you with piles of unrelated, over-general backup material, attempting to bury you in data they think you won’t have time to read
    Holds a nonstandard degree. For instance, if the physics-related speaker has a degree in engineering, not physics; if the medical researcher does not have an M.D. or Ph.D.; if the affiliated university does not have a solid reputation. This is not snobbery; if a scientist truly wishes to make an advance in their chosen field, they’ll make an effort to engage with other scholars
    Claims to have knowledge no one else has
    Sends information only from websites they created themselves; there is little or no comment on them in mainstream science publications or even on Wikipedia
    Provides data that takes the form of anecdotes, testimonials and/or studies of only one person
    Sells a product, supplement, plan or service related to their proposed talk — this is a BIG RED FLAG
    Acts oddly persistent about getting to your stage. A normal person who is rejected for the TEDx stage will be sad and usually withdraw from you. A hoaxer, especially one who sees a financial upside to being associated with TEDx, will persist, sometimes working to influence members of your team one by one or through alternative channels
    Accuses you of endangering their freedom of speech. (Shutting down a bogus speaker is in no way endangering their freedom of speech. They’re still free to speak wherever they can find a platform. You are equally free not to lend them the TEDx platform.)
    Demands that TEDx present “both sides of an issue” when one side is not backed by science or data. This comes up around topics such as creationism, anti-vaccination and alternative health
    Acts upset or hurt that you are checking them out or doubting them
    Accuses you of suppressing them because TED and TEDx is biased against them and run by rich liberals Wink
    Threatens to publicly embarrass TED and TEDx for suppressing them. (The exact opposite will happen.)
    While you’re not expected to become an overnight expert on all fields of science and health, here is how to start researching a topic you’re not an expert on:
    Start with some basic web research. You should be able to understand at least the big issues in every field you present onstage. Wikipedia is your first stop to gain a basic background. Following primary-source links from Wikipedia, work out from there to university websites, science and health blogs, and databases of papers published in respected journals.

    Ask your local university’s PR office to connect you to a professor you can speak to. Make sure it is someone totally unconnected with the potential speaker. Another place to start is the local university library, if you have access to that; a research librarian can help you find relevant journal articles.

    If you have a team member who is a journalist, ask them to fact-check the speaker’s work to journalistic standards.

    For an example of how to check out a possible health hoax, see this great blog post examining Dr. Oz’s promotion of green coffee beans for weight loss: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/dr-oz-and-green-coffee-beans-more-weight-loss-pseudoscience/

    Finally, you can always email the TEDx team at tedx@ted.com and we can work with you on helping research the credibility of a speaker’s topic before they present at your TEDx event. As a member of the community, if you do come across a talk on the TEDx YouTube channel or at a future event that you feel is presenting bad science or pseudoscience, please let us know. Bad science talks affect the credibility of TED and TEDx: it is important we get this right.

    If you have any other ideas and suggestions on how to stop bad science talks on the TEDx stage please let us know. Your thoughts and suggestions are always welcome.

    Best,
    Lara Stein, TEDx Director
    Emily McManus, TED.com Editor


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #10 - December 10, 2012, 08:07 PM

    Didn't Mona Eltahway the Egyptian lady say that TED decided not to put her speech about women's rights in Islam online in case it offends some people

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #11 - November 21, 2014, 06:50 PM

    Ian David Morris takes her book apart:
    http://www.iandavidmorris.com/the_first_muslim_and_the_last_orientalist/
    Quote
    Lesley Hazleton’s biography of Muhammad, The First Muslim, was published last year; the paperback came out a few days ago.

    If history is the art of telling true stories, this book is a triumph of literature alone. Hazleton writes beautifully, and the book is very well structured; but it is, simply put, a modern spin on a medieval classic: the Sīrah by Ibn Ishāq (d. 768). Hazleton follows this text almost uncritically. Occasionally she draws on the relevant part of the History by Tabarī (d. 923), which is an abridgement of the Sīrah that includes some variant traditions.

    This point must be stressed: of all the hundreds of sources she might have examined, in Arabic, Syriac and Greek, she limits herself to two kindred texts. Both have been translated into English, which I’m sure made them especially tempting.[1] It wouldn’t matter if the other sources agreed with hers by and large. Unfortunately, as historians well know, the more sources we examine for Muhammad’s life, the more confused and contradictory it appears.

    Hazleton doesn’t address this basic problem of source criticism. There’s no statement of methodology; no apologia for her subject. She treats Muhammad’s life as more or less unproblematic, and in so doing, she misleads her many readers. I don’t mean to impugn her motives: it’s her competence I’m questioning. Hazleton is a fine litterateur, but she’s no historian. If she doesn’t address these textual problems, maybe it’s because she doesn’t know there’s a problem.

    As a result, The First Muslim is deeply conservative. Yes, it recasts a medieval story for a modern audience; but not only that. I mean that it reproduces, with cosmetic changes, the narrative of Islamic origins that dominated the Western academy from the nineteenth century until the generation just gone. Hazleton’s faith in the text, her romanticism, and her psychologism, all belong to a bygone age of Orientalist scholarship.

    In the late nineteenth century, when Islamic Studies was a novelty, Western scholars marvelled at the traditional sources for Islamic history. As empiricists, reacting against philosophical speculation, they drew ‘knowledge’ from the primary sources, and synthesised a coherent picture of “what actually happened”. As far as they were concerned, that was exactly what the classical sources told them.

    If they were going to read these, they needed to know the languages. So they specialised. They spent decades learning Arabic and Persian, and often Hebrew, Turkish and Syriac. They read and reread the vast, multi-volume chronicles from medieval Iraq. They developed close personal and professional ties with the Middle East. And in the process, they started to lose touch with the rest of the academy. That is how Orientalism became a ‘discipline’ in its own right: sternly philological and unwittingly conservative.

    This was the dominant mode of historical Orientalism for over a century. Change was incremental. Meanwhile the ’60s and ’70s battered the Humanities, transforming how we think about human beings. Literary theory undermined our confidence in the written word; medievalists were confronted with anthropology and religious studies. And Orientalism barely noticed.

    When the pressure came, it came suddenly and from two directions. Critical theory condemned the Orientalists for promoting an archetype of the Middle East, othered and essentialised. Simultaneously a small group of Orientalists problematised the sources, insisting on their incoherence; their literary and tendentious character. Through the 1980s, slowly and begrudgingly, Orientalism collapsed under the weight of its own contradictions.[2]

    Better late than never: we are all Historians now.

    All this is what makes Lesley Hazleton’s recent work so remarkable. Having read (and cited) several great books from the revolution – Orientalism, Hagarism, Meccan Trade –, she has somehow managed to produce a biography in the grand old tradition of W.M. Watt and Nabia Abbott. They were writing nineteenth-century history in the mid-twentieth century; Hazleton is still writing it in the twenty-first.

    An exercise in ignorance, presumption and O’Toolean romance, The First Muslim may be the last Orientalist biography of Muhammad ever written; and certainly the laziest.


    [1] The only other medieval source that she cites is also in translation – the Book of Idols (1952) – but this is cited only once and rather peripherally.

    [2] For another recent summary of this process, see C. Robinson, “Crone and the end of Orientalism", in Ahmed et al. (eds.), Islamic Cultures, Islamic Contexts (forthcoming).

  • Sigh. The new Karen Armstrong: Lesley Hazleton
     Reply #12 - November 21, 2014, 07:22 PM

    Lesley is such a lazy authro. Both her and Deepak Chopra have written such rubbish/nonsense anout MO jsut to sell books to Muslims.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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