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 Topic: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?

 (Read 6304 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     OP - November 30, 2012, 06:46 PM

    http://thedeeninstitute.com/evolution-conference

    The Deen Institute proudly announces its first ‘Dialogue within Islam’ event. The conference titled: Have Muslims Misunderstood Evolution?, will for the first time in the UK, to witness prominent Muslims tackling the controversial topic of evolution in a public forum.

    “Dialogue within Islam” events seek to engage with challenging ideas of concern to Muslims, in a setting that allows for critical dialogue.

    Historically, Muslims have held conflicting opinions on the theory of evolution and whether science and Islamic theology share a point of convergence. In recent years, a polarised debate on the topic has left many Muslims confused as to what Islam does, or doesn’t say, about human evolution.

    The Deen Institute will therefore provide a platform to different viewpoints so that the topic might be debated and examined in an honest, respectful and tolerant environment.

    The conference will elucidate the issue of human evolution from an Islamic viewpoint, in order to provide the audience with a clear understanding of the points of convergence between contemporary scientific theories and Islamic theology.




    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #1 - November 30, 2012, 07:31 PM

    Interesting. A step in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.
    I suspect orthodox Muslims will dismiss the supporters of evolution as heretics/sell-outs. Roll Eyes



    Next debate should be:  is the Qur'an the word of God?  Just kidding, lol.  I don't expect that debate any time soon.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #2 - November 30, 2012, 08:01 PM

    Describing evolution as controversial is instant fail. It doesn't matter what Islam says about it. If Islam says evolution is not factual, then Islam is wrong. Either accept it or STFU.

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #3 - November 30, 2012, 08:03 PM

    Interesting. A step in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.
    I suspect orthodox Muslims will dismiss the supporters of evolution as heretics/sell-outs. Roll Eyes

    Next debate should be:  is the Qur'an the word of God?  Just kidding, lol.  I don't expect that debate any time soon.

    Orthodox Muslims  may dismiss the  Muslim intellectuals  who are missing those ORTHODONTIC Bones .. I mean teeth., But   These  Muslim intellectuals with high school science background  see cosmology, biology, geology and all the rest of modern science in some silly verse  of Qur'an. These guys are plainly lying through their missing teeth ,unlike  Orthodox Muslims who tells truth from Quran. Mullahs tell you in mosques  how to develop a  coherent Islamic society based upon Quran/Sunnah/Hadith ., They speak  facts and truth from Islamic books.  Those orthodox Muslim Mullahs don't teach Muslim kids cosmology, biology, geology from Qur'an, They teach it as book of Allah and tell the kids to follow it in this life and after this life to go to Jannah.  I am sure in that meeting Muslim intellectuals will come out with some  stupid verse from Quran that supports biological evolution on earth..   Such as age of earth  is not what is said in Bible(6000 years)  but 2 or 3 billion years old.

    Why these guys are having such debate? Why run everything around Quran???   why talk science from Quran?   Science of Muslims is not different from  science of other people.  
     

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #4 - November 30, 2012, 11:14 PM

    While they're at it, why don't they discuss the shape of the Earth or Newton's theory of gravitation -_-

    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

    JOIN THE CHAT
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #5 - November 30, 2012, 11:18 PM

    Exactly. Bonkers, innit? yes

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #6 - December 01, 2012, 01:29 AM

    I don't think most Muslims have a good understanding of evolution at all; I have been told that it has been long debunked by creationism and Darwin was likely insane, and also "we didn't come from monkeys!". With some religious people, you can present all the evidence in the world and they'll still just stick their fingers in their ears and yell "la la la la".
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #7 - December 01, 2012, 01:32 AM

    Quranic Concept of Evolution Author: Atif Munawar Mir., Mississauga, Canada

    Quote
    The Holy Quran states that life resulted from evolution. However, this evolution was not blind or random. Rather, evolution was controlled by Divine hand. This Divine hand accounts for the beginning, diversity and complexity of life on Earth .......................One of the attributes of God, according to the Holy Quran, is that He creates in stages. Humans have also been created in stages. It provides no details of those stages, but does offer principles that tend to point toward four major stages in the evolution of humans................

    The Holy Quran states that life resulted from evolution. However, this evolution was not blind or random.  Rather, evolution was controlled by   Divine hand. This Divine hand accounts for the beginning, diversity and complexity of life on Earth..


    Smooth transition from silly Arabic  words of that book to Modern evolutionary biology.,  I stlll have problem with role of hand in evolution .. the Divine Hand .. ., May be It was finger that started the biological evolution., But Questions over questions come after that.. Whether it is middle finger or some other finger?  



    well read the rest at that pdf file...

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #8 - December 01, 2012, 01:34 AM

    Why does Islam have this issue? Why are Hindus, Jews and Buddhists not in the situation in which they have to debate evolution. Here in one of the great centres of British science, Imperial College, a room has been booked in which Muslims will solemnly debate evolution - in the year 2012.

    Its got to do with the self regard of Islam in which it considers that it contains all truth - when evolution shows that up, its claims of totalising knowledge are shown up completely.

    At least, this is the mindset of those at odds with evolution. The likes of Dr Usama Hasan can reconcile their faith with it.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #9 - December 01, 2012, 01:41 AM

    Why does Islam have this issue? Why are Hindus, Jews and Buddhists not in the situation in which they have to debate evolution

    Don't worry., there will be some Moron  from other sides also, who will pull some words from  their so-called  scriptures and talk about evolution..  And if people don't question these Muslims fools  and nip their nonsense in its bud, ,sure bums from other religions will learn from these nut cases and they spread their scriptural connections  to modern evolutionary  biology ..........

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #10 - December 01, 2012, 01:44 AM

    It's a power struggle. There is great power in the scientific method.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #11 - December 01, 2012, 01:46 AM

    That's why they want to link science to religion so badly, make them compatible, level them -latch onto that power.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #12 - December 01, 2012, 01:47 AM

    Dan Harris: What if science confirms something that contradicts your faith?
    Dalai Lama: If the scientists confirm non-existence of something we believe in, then we have to accept that.
    Dan Harris: So If the scientists come up with something that contradict your beliefs, you will change your beliefs?
    Dalai Lama: Oh yes
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #13 - December 01, 2012, 01:49 AM

    of course Muslims have misunderstood evolution, but so has prety much everyone else.
    Everyone thinks they get it, but it is not taught very well, and the basic logic of it escapes many.
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #14 - December 01, 2012, 02:41 PM

    Interesting, but I think the muslim response is all too predictable. i.e It will be some variation of: natural selection may be the mechanism that appears to explain speciation and hence our existance, but it is ultimately through Allah's gracious will that allows this to even happen. Allahu Akbar.

    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

    William Arthur Ward
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #15 - December 01, 2012, 02:44 PM

    Don't worry., there will be some Moron  from other sides also, who will pull some words from  their so-called  scriptures and talk about evolution..  And if people don't question these Muslims fools  and nip their nonsense in its bud, ,sure bums from other religions will learn from these nut cases and they spread their scriptural connections  to modern evolutionary  biology ..........


    All religions have nutcases - but not all of them display the same neurosis over evolution as Islam and literalist Christianity do


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #16 - December 01, 2012, 03:40 PM

    The new focus among this generation of Muslim apologists seems to be accepting evolution for all species with the exception of human beings. I watched a couple of clips on youtube with Abdurraheem Green and Yasir Qadi saying that Muslims can accept evolution in all animals except for humans, since there is nothing in the Qur’an or Sunnah to disprove that other species evolved. Of course, that argument is complete nonsense. It’s like saying “Well, I have no problems believing that all modern dogs have evolved from ancient wolf ancestors, since that is what the fossil record, DNA evidence, geological evidence, and scientific consensus all point to…EXCEPT for poodles! I have to believe that poodles were magically created by fairies!”

    "Just because it wasn't intentional doesn't mean it's not art."
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #17 - December 01, 2012, 05:24 PM

     Cheesy

    ^Precisely. No point nit-picking a scientific theory to conform to religious beliefs, religion & science just have two different philosophies of inquiry. Either accept the theory as it is or reject the whole thing, or you can always reformulate your own Islamic Evolution theory which can explain why Humans are the only species left out of the evolution process, and why that long conspicuous trail of earlier human fossils isn't really indicative of evolution (of course, along with a multitude of other evidences).

    Anyway, one hopes with today's easy access to information these gaping holes in Muslim theology will become apparent to the masses, and I'm actually optimistic about this.

    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

    William Arthur Ward
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #18 - December 01, 2012, 05:39 PM

    Cheesy

    ^Precisely. No point nit-picking a scientific theory to conform to religious beliefs, religion & science just have two different philosophies of inquiry. ...................

     
    I don't know whether I should consider "religion and so -called religious scripture/books" as philosophy.. I don't see any philosophy in them..   what i see is collection of some silly stories from people living in and around caves..

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #19 - December 01, 2012, 07:47 PM

    I love the poodle analogy.  Afro

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #20 - December 01, 2012, 10:09 PM

    of course Muslims have misunderstood evolution, but so has prety much everyone else.
    Everyone thinks they get it, but it is not taught very well, and the basic logic of it escapes many.

    This is very true. It's not explained very well in schools and I didn't get it either until I read up on it a bit more on my own. This isn't very relevant  though, because assuming they did understand evolution very well the problem still remains that there is no chance in hell it would be compatible with Islam.

    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

    JOIN THE CHAT
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #21 - December 01, 2012, 10:32 PM

    Sometimes I am also concerned about the lack of understanding of evolution by people who claim to believe in it ^_^

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #22 - December 01, 2012, 11:54 PM

    yea, a lot of evolutionary 'just so' stories get passed around to justify political things. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #23 - December 19, 2012, 05:21 PM

    I fear that this conference isn't about teaching evolution but rather on how to insert scientific miracles in the Quran much like Hamza Tzortis M.O.

    To have any kind of credibility the conference should be properly titled "Have the Quran misunderstood evolution?" Or "Have the Quran erroneously omitted evolution?" Or just simply "Is evolution Islamic?"

    Saying "Have Muslims understood evolution?" one can easily debate Muslims misunderstood the Quran and completely missed that long narrative in the Quran that when translated properly via Tzortis' method truly and perfectly explained evolution hence the Quran is undeniably a true miracle.

    Off Topic: What I'd like to know, what is the true original Arabic name for an oviraptor philoceratops or a
    Brachylophosaurus or all the various types of arthropods ever existed? Adam did name all of them himself, didn't he?
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #24 - December 19, 2012, 09:25 PM

    This is why you don't mix religion with science. This is less of a debate among Christians and Jews because their religion's credibility doesn't revolve around scientific miracles. Islam made the mistake of using old science and claiming it as a miracle from Allah and fact. Like someone said it's going to be a matter of time before some Muslim claims that evolution is written the Quran. Roll Eyes

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #25 - December 19, 2012, 09:30 PM

    "Have Muslims misunderstood evolution? "

    Eha !.. what kind of question is that?  

    to misunderstand something, first you need to read, 2nd you need to think,  then comes the process of understanding  and misunderstanding. The first two are missing in the Islamic world,  In fact they are also missing non-Islamic world.. lol.. so the question of misunderstanding doesn't arise.

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #26 - December 20, 2012, 02:08 PM

    Interesting, but I think the muslim response is all too predictable. i.e It will be some variation of: natural selection may be the mechanism that appears to explain speciation and hence our existance, but it is ultimately through Allah's gracious will that allows this to even happen. Allahu Akbar.


    Yup this is what I think will happen as well, it is like the Big Bang Theory in the Quran and the rest of the nonsense.

  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #27 - December 21, 2012, 01:22 PM

    Even if evolution was described in the Quran, it wouldn't lend a hint of credibility to its claims.
    Lets remember that the "theory of evolution", in its basic form goes back to the early days of the "scientific revolution", roughly in the early-mid 1500s. Back then, some European scholars already postulated the basis of the "tree of life" and how all species evolved out of earlier species and so on. This led (of course) to some problems with racism, because as "sophisticated" as that hypothesis was, the people in question thought that the same applies to the human species (read: there are more than one and for example Africans are below "humans" (Caucasians)), etc...

    Same goes for the Atomic Universe and the philosophers who made the atomic model up some 2,500 years ago. They didn't have any microscopes or any means to observe said phenomenon, so it was clearly just a hypothesis.

    Of course there were hundreds of different theories and that one of them turns out to be true, ONCE THE KNOWLEDGE AND THE DATA EXISTS, is no "miracle".

    Another example is the famous scholar Giordano Bruno, who was burnt on the stake for claiming that the "far lights" (stars) are stars just like our Sun and that they are probably surrounded by planets, just as our Sun is and that on some of these planets, there is life, just like on Earth. He was right, but he couldn't have had known this, because the first extra-solar planet was discovered just some 30+ years ago. And even then, it was a hypothesis; real observations of planets around other stars go back just a couple of years. Until the late 1920s, we didn't even know that there are galaxies outside of our own Milky Way.

    It's like reading stuff "into" Nostradamus prophecies; you can only do it AFTER the event and all the stuff you "prophecized" before, that didn't come out as true is simply forgotten; same goes for the Quran.

    But unlike in Nostradamus' case, where everything is complete gibberish, in the case of the Quran, there are clearly stated scientific claims - it's just that the claims are wrong and have nothing to do with reality (embryology, astronomy/astrophysics, biology and geology in general, etc...).
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #28 - December 21, 2012, 01:36 PM

    Quote
    it's going to be a matter of time before some Muslim claims that evolution is written the Quran.


    Come on, let's do it!  Add in hadith - that one about a fly for example.....

    Is there an Islamic equivalent of Landover Baptist?

    http://www.landoverbaptist.org

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    ― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh
  • Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?
     Reply #29 - December 21, 2012, 02:52 PM

    Don't worry., there will be some Moron  from other sides also, who will pull some words from  their so-called  scriptures and talk about evolution..  And if people don't question these Muslims fools  and nip their nonsense in its bud, ,sure bums from other religions will learn from these nut cases and they spread their scriptural connections  to modern evolutionary  biology ..........


    Still muslims that say that "evolution was in the Quran" is still a step forward from the creationists.  Once they do this with evolution they might start taking the whole Quran metaphorically as well like main stream Christians do.

    Instead of focusing on debunking the moderates we should support the "rational" educated muslims who support science because they are the ones that are going to lead Islam to becoming a reformed deistic religion like main stream christianity today

    It is us humans that assert purpose onto an otherwise purposeless cosmos and then claim divine inspiration 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living

    My Philosophy: " Fear no one and challenge everyone "
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