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 Topic: undeniable scientific errors in the quran

 (Read 26274 times)
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  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     OP - August 25, 2012, 06:46 PM

    I thought it would be a good idea to collate a list of the errors in the quran that are unambiguous. I want to be generous to the quran, and only include errors in which the translation is understood and the context is clear.

    If we give the quran the benefit of every doubt, what are we left with?

    it is possible that the quran is so ambiguous that we dont end up with much, but it is still worth attempting

    --------------------


    The authoritative running list, according to me, the ultimate authority.

    1. Humanity descends from a single couple
    2. Sperm (or semen) turns into an embryo
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #1 - August 25, 2012, 07:29 PM

    I thought it would be a good idea to collate a list of the errors in the quran that are unambiguous. I want to be generous to the quran, and only include errors in which the translation is understood and the context is clear.

    If we give the quran the benefit of every doubt, what are we left with?

    it is possible that the quran is so ambiguous that we dont end up with much, but it is still worth attempting undeniable scientific errors in the quran

     undeniable scientific errors in the quran



    Quran or otherwise ., in any book/manual/pubed paper ., we need to have some science to find out SCIENTIFIC errors ., When there is no science in it, the question of finding scientific  errors doesn't arise ..

     That silly book should be considered as alleged religious/political manual written by some middle eastern  fellows in 7th/8th century ..

    that is all what it is..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #2 - August 26, 2012, 12:34 AM

    Meteors mentioned as shooting stars, Sea Barriers that can't be transgressed, Jins made of fire which is completely absurd, sun setting in musky waters u can find a bunch of such errors, the problem is that once u point out this errors they will resort to the well known tactic called "IT IS A METAPHOR AND GOD IS TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE WITH IT".

    Also the Big Bang claim is completely ridiculous, Splitting the earth from the heavens Huh? what does that mean in the first place.

  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #3 - August 26, 2012, 02:07 PM

    i find that muslims demand that you find a scientist who says that for example "stars are not missiles to shoot down jinn".


    maybe it is a hopeless endeavour
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #4 - August 26, 2012, 02:46 PM

    i find that muslims demand that you find a scientist who says that for example "stars are not missiles to shoot down jinn".


    maybe it is a hopeless endeavour

    no..no.. there is a hope., we just need to send these high school drop outs back to school...,

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #5 - August 26, 2012, 03:35 PM

    Hardly any of the attempts to explain away the errors seem at all plausible to me, so I often wonder if Muslims are as satisfied with them as they act. Something that should make them worry is a twist on these arguments: Rather than try to prove that something is an error, ask why there are so many things that seem to a reasonable person to require implausible acrobatics to explain away. Why are there so many verses that sound geocentric, and nothing clear to counter that impression, if this is the work of a being capable of perfection? The one time I argued with a Muslim and used this argument, and I included lots of geocentric verses, they stopped replying.

    I think one of the biggest problems (an imperfection) is having set prayer and fasting times around sunset and sunrise, which isn't suited to a globe with populations at high latitudes, but smacks of flat-earthism where it''s the same time for everyone. They need some very contrived extra rules to help Nordic countries, Antartic base scientists etc.

    Here's a novel error I noticed myself:
    53:1 By the Star when it setteth,
    56:75 Nay, I swear by the places of the stars [mawaqi is an ism makan - a noun derived from a verb and meaning the place where it happens - in this case the place of falling]

    These suggest there are actual places where the stars set. Unlike the sun, the apparent places on the horizon where stars rise and set do not change perceivably throughout the year (it's the times that change as the year progresses, and even that is just a matter of perspective depending where on the globe you are observing the star).

    Here's a couple where the attempts to explain away are especially futile:

    A big error, but seldom noticed by Muslims due to generous translations and claims on dawah sites, is that semen is gestated in the womb (put in a safe place). See 23:13 (nutfah) and 77:20-22 (despised water).

    There is no evidence that nutfah was used for anything other than liquids. It very suspiciously fits the popular Galenic/Hippocratic/Talmudic idea that the embryo starts off as semen before taking other forms. See my article about nutfah for details.

    The best the apologists can do is to fabricate dictionary definitions or misleadingly quotemine or lie about hadiths to make it sound like nutfah is a reasonable word for a sperm/ovum/zygote/blastocyst.

    A perfect author would not be so short-sighted to lose future customers by making the Quran seem to contain the ideas of the time by using this word.

    My favourite though has to be the guy who Allah helps to reach the setting place of the sun and finds it setting in a muddy spring. I looked in detail at every attempt to explain this away (that it just means west, that he reached the time of sunset, metaphorical language, whole story is allegorical etc.) and they all have severe problems. Here's a shorter version of the article I wrote about it.

    The easiest point to make on that one though is just to ask why Allah would use wording that sounds like popular legends and poems of the time about the sun setting in a spring, such that people took it literally (evident from hadiths, tafsirs). Why expose the Quran to such doubt when it could so easily have been avoided?
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #6 - August 26, 2012, 03:39 PM

    Here's an edited c&p of the geocentrism argument I used once:

    Given the nature of language (especially Arabic with its multitude of possible meanings for each word), almost anything could be explained away with appeal to metaphors, other word meanings, that it's from a particular point of view etc. The factual statements are pretty vague and can be interpreted many different ways.

    Anyway, here are the verses I know of that seem geocentric. I'm not saying it can be proved (due to the reasons above) that they have a particular meaning and I've heard lots of alternative explanations. My point rather is that a person of average intelligence will quite reasonably suspect that the author believed that the apparent movement of the sun across the sky each day is due to its actual movement. Surely Allah would avoid such a weakness in his Quran since part of its purpose is to pursuade people to believe it's from him?

    All translations Pickthall

    14:33 And maketh the sun and the moon, constant in their courses, to be of service unto you, and hath made of service unto you the night and the day.

    Notice how the sun's movement is always mentioned in the context of day and night, which will inevitably cause many people to suspect geocentrism.

    21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

    These next 3 are basically the same. Btw I'm aware of the claimed miraculous reference in the 3rd one to earth rotation. The last uses yukawwiru (he wraps), the first 2 yuliju (he causes to enter/he merges). I"ll just say it's nowhere near clear enough for the non-believer to overide the suspicion caused by the other things.

    31:29 Hast thou not seen how Allah causeth the night to pass into the day and causeth the day to pass into the night, and hath subdued the sun and the moon (to do their work), each running unto an appointed term; and that Allah is Informed of what ye do?

    35:13 He maketh the night to pass into the day and He maketh the day to pass into the night. He hath subdued the sun and moon to service. Each runneth unto an appointed term.

    39:5 He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each running on for an appointed term.


    The context of surrounding verses makes it clear that the following is meant to show that people are dependent on the mercy of Allah, who can take everything away from them whenever he wants:

    36:37-40
    37 A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness.
    38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
    39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
    40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

    Right after night comes in 37, it says the sun goes to a resting place (which is also what various hadith say). How can any non-believer read this and not be at least very suspicious that it suggests the sun actually moves across the sky in a daily cycle? 40 seems to suggest Allah's benevolence (given the context) prevents the sun & moon passing each other, as though they both move across the sky in a similar way. It says they each have an orbit, but there's nothing to suggest that the sun's orbit is around a different thing to the moon (the galaxy), which would also be a very indirect way to explain why they don't collide/overlap.

    It's simply not convincing to say references to the sun's movement refer to its orbit around the galaxy every 225 million years, as it's of no obvious relevance on human timescales or in context. It comes across as desperation to use that argument. Surely Allah would foresee and make things clearer?

    75:6-9 He asketh: When will be this Day of Resurrection?
    But when sight is confounded
    And the moon is eclipsed
    And the sun and the moon are joined

    I'm sure with imagination you could say the moon will fly 100million miles into the sun or something, but it does sound a lot like the sort of thing someone would say if they thought the sun and moon were the same size, both going around earth, thus adding to geocentric suspicions.

    18:85-86 & 18:89-90
    And he followed a road
    Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

    Then he followed a road
    Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.

    It's obvious that this will increase doubts about the Quran even if it really means something other than the obvious. It also sounds just like a contemporary popular legend and poems. Surely Allah would foresee the problems it would cause and describe this story in a very different way.
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #7 - August 26, 2012, 05:15 PM

    Good Stuff NJ7 Smiley

    The most Ridiculous one is Jins made of fire, Fire is not an element it is a process how in the world can u be made of fire? it makes literally NO SENSE AT ALL, how can u be made of running or oxidizing ??

  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #8 - August 28, 2012, 12:23 PM

    This science in Quran nonsense all started from  in 1976 with the publication of The Bible, the Quran and Science by that Bucailleism  from  the book of a fool  Maurice Bucaille, a French surgeon who had served the Saudi monarchy and apparently acquired his basic knowledge of the Quran in the kingdom. He was the first fool  to couple so-called    holy scriptures with modern science., and he being medical doctor  talks nonsense  on astronomy, geology of  earth, and  biology of  animal and vegetable kingdoms with refernce to some babbling verses in quran. . His conclusion was that "it is impossible not to admit the existence of scientific errors in the Bible".

     and then  irrational international conferences started by these Muslim robots join his stupidity  with ulterior motives by including some unsuspected western Doctors and scientists in 1986/87..  This is again with Land of pure providing  Islamic brain  and that Sand land providing the financial assistance, together  talk nonsense from Quran and connecting to Human Genitalia,  sperm and what not....


    So now in 21st century we have 100s of Books on that nonsense and they all started from these silly International Conferences on Scientific Miracle of Quran  ... such as


    First International Conference on Scientific Miracle of Quran and Prophetic Tradition

    The Scientific Wonders of the Quran

    The Quran from the Perspective of Intellectuals and Scientists

    The Qur'ân and Modern Science Compatible or Incompatible?  Dr. Zakir Naik Islamic Research Foundation

    And with internet freely accessible to middle income families,  we have Millions of kids from Islamic nations that can not cope with modern cope stresses of  modern competitive education  but goes in to this hyper science mode of Quran & bilogy, Quran & origin of universe.. Quran & geolgy and what not. On top of it  many so-called Islamic nations do not have enough resources to educated the kids..  .. couple that too inexpensive  internet cafes... ..

    Now we have millions of  20 to 25 year olds talking "science of Quran"  on internet and running around like headless chickens with little beards preaching Quran as word of Allah as if  it contains verses on basic sciences across the globe..  And we have preachers like Zakir Jokers  + Western converts such as Geek Tortillas to fool these kids who drop out of high school..  they take silly statements   from  Surahs like that  AN-NAHL (THE BEE).. such as

    Quote

     016.079
    YUSUFALI: Do they not look at the birds, held poised in the midst of (the air and) the sky? Nothing holds them up but (the power of) Allah. Verily in this are signs for those who believe.

    PICKTHAL: Have they not seen the birds obedient in mid-air? None holdeth them save Allah. Lo! herein, verily, are portents for a people who believe.

    SHAKIR: Do they not see the birds, constrained in the middle of the sky? None withholds them but Allah; most surely there are signs in this for a people who believe.

     and say it is miracle that Quran mentioned such things in 7th century....

    Mention of Birds flying in the sky is Scientific miracle??  Allah power holds them high  in the sky??  and that is the sign  of Allah/god??

    What else is the sign of Allah god??

    Piss coming out of dick .. nose leaking, dogs barking....  Are these signs  of allah/god??

    Foolish people wasting their time and the time of millions of kids ..

    Mock the rascals and move on.,  if you get chance .. whoever speaks science in Quran for that matter from any so called religious books... beat them up until they clean shave their beards...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #9 - August 28, 2012, 01:29 PM

    So  I am eating and  eating and reading around ..and i got this book on the screen..




    Written by UFO's in the Quran by Abdul Aziz Khan (Dec 30, 2008)..

    Boy what a book.. DO NOT BUY IT..    just read a bit of it in the above link .

    Idiots like this one write such silly books  and ruin the kids that are born to Muslim parents and vulnerable to  religious rubbish from stupid people ..

    Damn  I eat a lot .. reading that stupid link..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #10 - August 28, 2012, 03:46 PM

    If we give the quran the benefit of every doubt, what are we left with?
    it is possible that the quran is so ambiguous that we dont end up with much, but it is still worth attempting


    You won't end up with much.  Giving the Quran the benefit of the doubt of being vague and of use of metaphors and well as God being everything... you don't end up with much that could be inaccurate.  The Koran is just not a scientific book... period. 

    For example, saying God holds up birds... is not inaccurate as God made the universe.  God is in charge of gravity, lift, force...
    Similarly, the orbits of the moon/sun... God is in charge of gravity, inertia...

  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #11 - August 28, 2012, 03:51 PM

    You won't end up with much.  Giving the Quran the benefit of the doubt...... you don't end up with much that could be inaccurate.  The Koran is just not a scientific book... period.  
    ........

    Yap..

    STUPID BOOKS SHOULD BE CALLED AS STUPID BOOK.. finmad

    stupid people should be called  stupid..

    smart people doing stupid things some times also should be called.. "You stupid don't do that again"..    finmad

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #12 - August 28, 2012, 06:41 PM

    no..no.. there is a hope., we just need to send these high school drop outs back to school...,


       
    Idiots like this one write such silly books  and ruin the kids that are born to Muslim parents and vulnerable to  religious rubbish from stupid people ..

     

     

    So now in 21st century we have 100s of Books on that nonsense and they all started from these silly International Conferences on Scientific Miracle of Quran  ... such as

    And with internet freely accessible to middle income families,  we have Millions of kids from Islamic nations that can not cope with modern cope stresses of  modern competitive education  but goes in to this hyper science mode of Quran & bilogy, Quran & origin of universe.. Quran & geolgy and what not. On top of it  many so-called Islamic nations do not have enough resources to educated the kids..  .. couple that too inexpensive  internet cafes... ..

    Now we have millions of  20 to 25 year olds talking "science of Quran"  on internet and running around like headless chickens with little beards preaching Quran as word of Allah as if  it contains verses on basic sciences across the globe..  And we have preachers like Zakir Jokers  + Western converts such as Geek Tortillas to fool these kids who drop out of high school..  they take silly statements   from  Surahs like that  AN-NAHL (THE BEE).. such as
     and say it is miracle that Quran mentioned such things in 7th century....

    Mention of Birds flying in the sky is Scientific miracle??  Allah power holds them high  in the sky??  and that is the sign  of Allah/god??

    What else is the sign of Allah god??

    Piss coming out of dick .. nose leaking, dogs barking....  Are these signs  of allah/god??

    Foolish people wasting their time and the time of millions of kids ..

    Mock the rascals and move on.,  if you get chance .. whoever speaks science in Quran for that matter from any so called religious books... beat them up until they clean shave their beards...



    STUPID BOOKS SHOULD BE CALLED AS STUPID BOOK.. finmad

    stupid people should be called  stupid..

    smart people doing stupid things some times also should be called.. "You stupid don't do that again"..



     Cheesy Cheesy Lmao Peace be upon you {PBUY} yeezevee !



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #13 - September 03, 2012, 06:52 AM

    my first proposal for an undeniable scientific error is the existence of Adam and Eve, and that humanity descended from two people.
    i dont see how a muslims could take it as a metaphor, and i dont see how it is possible to reconcile it with science
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #14 - September 03, 2012, 08:55 AM

    Shooting stars are missiles from stars shot at Jinn.  The nearest star to our solar system is Alpha Centauri and is just over 4 light years away.  This means that either this is wrong (Muhammad thought stars were close) or that Allah has to send a missile to an exact time+place over 4 years in advance of the event happening.  Both are a problem, because the latter proves that our lives are predestined and we have no control over them, and therefore Allah creates billions of humans for the explicit purposes of burning them for all eternity.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #15 - September 03, 2012, 01:50 PM

    Muhammad DID think the stars were close, hence why they hung on the first of the seven heavens.
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #16 - September 03, 2012, 07:22 PM


    56:75 Nay, I swear by the places of the stars [mawaqi is an ism makan - a noun derived from a verb and meaning the place where it happens - in this case the place of falling]


    the problem with that is that i cannot be a position where I am teaching people what the correct arabic interpretation is.



     
    Quote
    the embryo starts off as semen before taking other forms.


    i think that is one

    Quote
    the guy who Allah helps to reach the setting place of the sun and finds it setting in a muddy spring.


    i think this can be interpeted a the impression that the idiot had. It isnt my interpretation, but I think Muslims can wriggle out of that one


    As for geocentrism, i think it is incredibly obvious that the quran is geocentris, but that isnt enough. 'almost definately geocentric' is not enough. It has to explicitly say that the sun orbits the earth for it to be considered an undeniable error. They can deny it simply by having a different (although ridiculous) interpretation.
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #17 - September 03, 2012, 07:35 PM

    i dont think anything to do with Jins or 'the unseen' is going to work.
    I think for a list of undeniable scientific errors, we need examples where the science explicitly contradicts the quran.
    No scientist has ever mentioned a jinn.

    I have used the example of the stars being missiles to shoot down jins, and the Muslim demanded that I found a scientist who said that they weren't. It obviously is a stupid response, and I'm sure the Muslim himself knew it was stupid, but that is what we are up against.
    If I were a Muslim, I would be able to invent an excuse for that verse.

    For example, to say that stars are too far away to act as missiles would be no problem to a Muslim, as Allah can do everything. Plus, perhaps the jinns are light years away, and the stars shoot them down way before they get anywhere near earth.

    I propose the existence of Adam and Eve because for as long as there have been humans, the population has never been lower than around 10,000.  The scientific consensus explicitly contradicts the claim that we descend from a single couple.  The only response I can imagine for this is "the science is wrong", which is exactly what I'm looking for.



  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #18 - September 03, 2012, 07:40 PM

    ^

    And the Quran says Jinns are made of fire, just think about it, how can u be made of fire, fire is not an element, fire is a process.

  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #19 - September 03, 2012, 07:45 PM

    i agree that it makes no sense, but that is not enough.
     
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #20 - September 03, 2012, 09:30 PM

    Quote
    And maketh the sun and the moon, constant in their courses


    Quote
    In a previous paper (J. Laskar, Nature 338, (237–238)), the chaotic nature of the Solar System excluding Pluto was established by the numerical computation of the maximum Lyapunov exponent of its secular system over 200 myr. In the present paper an explanation is given for the exponential divergence of the orbits: it is due to the transition from libration to circulation of the critical argument of the secular resonance 2 (g4 − g3) − (s4 − s3) related to the motions of perihelions and nodes of Earth and Mars.


    and myriad other references basically saying the solar system is chaotic.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/001910359090084M

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #21 - September 03, 2012, 09:34 PM

    will look into it
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #22 - September 07, 2012, 10:32 PM

    i think this can be interpeted a the impression that the idiot had. It isnt my interpretation, but I think Muslims can wriggle out of that one


    To do so they have to interpret wajadaha (he found it) to mean he had a false perception, or that he thought it appeared like something that he knew wasn't the case, which from the evidence I've seen and mention in my article is not feasible. But while it is not practical to dispute nuances of Arabic word definitions in a debate with Muslims, one could instead take the much simpler route of pointing out the sheer pointlessness of Allah just mentioning how this man perceived sunset if their theory is correct. And the foolishness of using such a phrase that seems to back up a false legend about Alexander and contemporary Arabic poems about the sun setting in a spring.

    In other words, rather than trying to disprove whatever theory they come up with, would you consider using a strategy of arguing that the passage is not perfect because it raises reasonable doubts? Couldn't a perfect author avoid raising any doubt, let alone such well grounded doubts if he knew better about astronomy? So you're not trying to disprove that it means what they say, rather just that there are reasonable doubts about the apologetic interpretations, and reasonable grounds for suspecting that it means what it seems to say, and thus is imperfect for a book that is supposed to impress people.

    Quote
    As for geocentrism, i think it is incredibly obvious that the quran is geocentris, but that isnt enough. 'almost definately geocentric' is not enough. It has to explicitly say that the sun orbits the earth for it to be considered an undeniable error. They can deny it simply by having a different (although ridiculous) interpretation.



    Similar to above, what do you think of the strategy of arguing that the reasonable doubts that these verses collectively raise makes the Qur'an imperfect, rather than attempting to completely disprove the fanciful interpretations?

    Muslims might say, "Allah was using language that would not confuse 7th century hearers". But surely a perfect author could talk about the sun, moon etc. in a way that would neither confuse them, nor raise eyebrows for future generations.

    It's the type of argument TheRationalizer used to use. Must be quite unsettling for a Muslim when they are used to simply offering acrobatic interpretations.
  • Re: undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #23 - September 07, 2012, 10:44 PM

    If I were talking to somebody reasonable, then yes it would be, and is a good approach.
    But religious people, and I think Muslims in particular will hold on to the thinnest thread imaginable in order to rescue their faith.

    Or perhaps it isn't even about saving their religious belief. Maybe it is simply about not losing an argument. It is possible that this is an even stronger motivation to hold, or claim to hold, a ridiculous position.

    When you are confronted with a person who cannot admit that they might be wrong, and who is also religious, then no matter how far they have to bend over backwards to dodge a perfectly good argument, they will do so. I want a list of cast iron objections.

    I thought the adam and eve thing was pretty good, but now I have come across a Muslim who does consider it a metaphor, so that kind of pisses on my fireworks.
  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #24 - December 11, 2012, 04:58 PM



    Quote
    This photograph was taken by scientist-astronaut Harrison H. Schmitt, lunar module pilot. The mountain in the right background is the east end of South Massif. While astronauts Cernan and Schmitt descended in the Lunar Module "Challenger" to explore the moon, astronaut Ronald E. Evans, command module pilot, remained with the Command and Service Modules "America" in lunar orbit.


    Damn time runs away..  Forty years ago today on Dec. 11, 1972, astronaut Eugene A. Cernan, commander, makes a short checkout of the lunar rover during the early part of the first Apollo 17 extravehicular activity at the Taurus-Littrow landing site. This view of the "stripped down" rover is prior to loading up. Equipment later loaded onto the rover included the ground-controlled television assembly, the lunar communications relay unit, hi-gain antenna, low-gain antenna, aft tool pallet, lunar tools and scientific gear.

    where as fools like this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iELPClLlqKo

    talk nonsense from silly books written from caves by fools. Well Americans stopped going to moon all together.   Instead of doing such science,  if they go on spending money on Wars and politicians +  go on supporting religious rubbish in schools+  also curtail that freedom of expression  they have as their constitutional  guarantee, then  Sure in 20 years down the road,you will find scientists like that fool  Zaghloul El Naggar speaking on television miracles from ridiculous books  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LSaZhGap58

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #25 - April 02, 2013, 07:34 AM

    Hi
    I am new here & hope this landed up in the correct spot.
    On a South African forum I asked the following question in the "Introduction to Islam" thread:

    "Apologies - I used the incorrect terminology in my prior question regards Muslims disregarding parts of the Quran.
    The correct question would have been:
    Are Muslims permitted to question the validity of portions of the Quran ?

    For example, Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

    Everyone knows the sun does not set in a spring, yet this is the word of God.
    Every year on Eid, Muslims gather on the lawns of Green Point promanade overlooking the see awaiting the sighting of the new moon. Everyone can see the sun setting on the horizon over the sea - not a muddy spring. Does this not lead to the questioning of "scientific" aspects of the Quran by Muslims ?"

    I have pasted the link from that forum here to avoid the discussion becoming disjointed as a result of copying and pasting between the 2 websites.
    The discussion there is between myself & "wayfarer".

    http: //mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/445019-Introduction-to-Islam/page28

    (i had to create a space above between http:  &   //mybroadband.........to include the link. without the link, pasting question & response loses it's flow - just copy & paste the link then backspace to remove the break i created within the link)

    Question here is- how does one counter this response?

    **
    "wayfarer" started the thread and is well respected in the MyBroadband community as he is able to explain or articulate issues around islam in a
    sensible way without ever resorting to hysterics, stamping feet or chest beating.




  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #26 - April 02, 2013, 08:44 AM

    Your link doesn't work because you are new:
    http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/445019-Introduction-to-Islam/page28

    He is giving the usual response - the quran describes things as they appear to be (rather than how they are).
    You would get a similar response for the earth being 'spread out' and lots of other things in the quran.

    Maybe it is a possible interpretation that even though Muhammed did know the sun doesn't set in a muddy spring,he was being poetic or something.  But the response is already more compatible with skeptic's explanation of the quran: That it was written by a human without any divine revelation, describing how things appeared to be to him (how he thought things were).

    Of the two competing explanations, the latter requires fewer assumptions, and explains more things. Therefore it is a more parsimonious, and more reasonable explanation.

    If there is a possible way for a Muslim to interpret a verse that rescues it, they will do it. They don't care if it isn't a reasonable interpretation. I wouldn't use this verse as a clear example of error however, because it is one of the instances where the Muslim interpretation isn't completely desperate. There are much better examples.
  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #27 - April 02, 2013, 09:34 AM

    I loved reading this.   I remember I used to fall for this stuff for awhile.   Its amazing what someone will do to hang on to rubbish.   

    I remember a verse claiming that humans couldn't go past certain parts of the atmosphere because allah wouldn't allow it and I am thinking wtf.......its only a matter of figuring out the science, but then I just went back to thinking the same thing and convinced myself that once we get the science then we can say a prayer and maybe just maybe allah will let us, bc after we got the science so he must have wanted it to happen....face palm! 



    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #28 - April 02, 2013, 02:01 PM

    I don't think there are any undeniable scientific errors in the Qur'an, except the Adam and Eve argument. Everything else is open to various degrees of interpretations. However, there are very, very good arguments to suggest that there are many verses that point towards scientific errors, such as the geocentric earth.

    If you are looking for more explicit errors, look at the hadiths too.
  • undeniable scientific errors in the quran
     Reply #29 - November 26, 2014, 07:00 PM

    is the quran supposed to describe things as they are for matter of fact, or describe them from the 7th century observer's viewpoint when it comes to this:

    36:37-40
    37 A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness.
    38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
    39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
    40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

    & this:

    18:85-86 & 18:89-90
    And he followed a road
    Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

    Then he followed a road
    Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.

    Huh?

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