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Theme Changer

 Topic: Good Fundamentalists !

 (Read 4703 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Good Fundamentalists !
     OP - June 26, 2012, 07:16 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b93yupDXWNo&feature=related



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #1 - June 26, 2012, 09:58 PM

    ermm...lol.... the girl in the hijab would be the one to get teased here not the one in the mini-skirt, she's a dedicated follower of fashion.  Grin

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #2 - June 27, 2012, 11:01 AM

    theres a double standard for everything. sure they`re mistresses, well what do you expect? a husband is allowed "many" so surely they`re all mistresses to some extent.  finmad finmad finmad

    "the question is" said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be the master- that`s all."
    Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking- Glass.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #3 - June 27, 2012, 11:45 AM


    The specific problem isn't that there is misogyny in the Muslim world. There are varying degrees of misogyny everywhere. The problem is that misogyny is institutionalised in a divine form and sanctified with holy authority by perverted primitive-minded creeps like this jackass.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #4 - June 27, 2012, 01:26 PM


    this guy makes me feel sick...
    there's a common theme to religions.. "controlling the female's sexuality" and if she can't be controlled.. rape her..



    sick..
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #5 - June 27, 2012, 03:34 PM

    People like this make me sick!!!

    Who does he think he is telling women if you're not wearing a hijab you'll get raped? Rape has less to do with clothing and more to do with self- gratification, control and power. Most rape cases involve someone the victim knows- so obv wearing a hijab wouldn't proect you from that.

    Also, considering that Islam doesn't recognise marital rape, it's not unreasonable to say that if those statistics were included in the ones from Islamic countries then they'd probably be quite high too.

    And Muslims should terrorise the anti-social aspects of society?? But they complain when non- Muslims "terrorise" the anti- social aspects of Islam.  015

     finmad I'm going to stop typing now, I can feel my blood pressure going up.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #6 - June 27, 2012, 03:52 PM

    When the camera pans over to the crowd, it appears that it is sex segregated. The men are all sitting in the audience at the bottom level whereas all the women are on the second level above. Are they worried someone is going to get raped during the actual lecture? If the talk is mainly about women's issues then why not put the women on the ground level, closer to the speaker, and the men up above?
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #7 - June 27, 2012, 04:02 PM

    ........If the talk is mainly about women's issues .........


    In talks like this,what you see is what you don't get a la ''appearances are deceptive'' !
    The ultimate aim is to praise Islam to high heavens,everything and everyone else are mere pawns.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #8 - June 27, 2012, 04:29 PM

    In talks like this,what you see is what you don't get a la ''appearances are deceptive'' !
    The ultimate aim is to praise Islam to high heavens,everything and everyone else are mere pawns.


    Well yes, but what is the ultimate point of praising Islam to high heavens? Surely the real point is to promote a conservative society and mainatin the status quo, a big part of that is to maintain the patriarchal, male dominated world view. So gender issues are always a big part of Islam.

    Another comment on the video, this whole painting of western society as decadent and full of rampant crime and rape is probably the best debate weapon the Islamists have in their arsenal, I have seen them use it time and time again. I think it is an even more effective weapon than the whole painting of the Islamic world as the oppressed resisters to foreign imperialism. Of course it realies on brainwashing and distortions of the truth, but it is hard to point that out without reliable and comparable statistics on issues like rape across countries.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #9 - June 27, 2012, 04:47 PM

    I'd rather live in the decadent west full of crime and rape (if that's what I'm supposed to be living in) than an islamic hell-hole anyday, lol.

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #10 - June 27, 2012, 05:03 PM

    This decadent West full of crime and rape is false!  Until recently, child abuse and domestic violence were not crimes over basically all the planet.  "The West" is now measuring this because they have been taken out of the private sphere into the public sphere. 

    Things are not good but the trend is downward.

    Theoworld though is not measuring this, so their statistics are still zero.

    The reality though is that theoworld is at 1500's levels of violence and treating women and children as objects.

    Lies, damned lies and statistics as Mark Twain said!

    http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html

    Quote
    Steven Pinker charts the decline of violence from Biblical times to the present, and argues that, though it may seem illogical and even obscene, given Iraq and Darfur, we are living in the most peaceful time in our species' existence.

    Linguist Steven Pinker questions the very nature of our thoughts -- the way we use words, how we learn, and how we relate to others. In his best-selling books, he has brought sophisticated language analysis to bear on topics of wide general interest. Full bio »

    We are probably living in the most peaceful time in our species’ existence.” (Steven Pinker)


    Except in theoworld!


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #11 - June 27, 2012, 06:17 PM

    I'd rather live in the decadent west full of crime and rape (if that's what I'm supposed to be living in) than an islamic hell-hole anyday, lol.


    Dawah-ganda peddlers and Islamic supremacists use the transparency and openness of liberal democracies to try and abuse them - in that Western countries collect statistics about sexual crimes, and crime in general, and encourage the discussion and open acknowledgment of these issues in order to combat them and prevent them, and most importantly to work against stigmatisation of victims.

    This is actually one of the things that makes liberal secular democracies great - they seek to solve and address social ills through transparency and openly debating and acknowledging these things.

    The Dawah peddler and Islamic supremacist, so blockheaded and simplistic and stuck in the culture of denial and contempt, views this as a weakness, and as material for him to use to abuse and attack liberal secular society in a most stupid and bigoted manner - viewing the open acknowledgement of  social problems simply as fodder for dawah - in order to erroneously compare Islam as superior, when we all know that Islamic societies tend to cripple those who seek to openly address these issues, and thus deny the existence of them, and certainly prevent the open examination of rape, sexual abuse through the collating and publishing of statistics and the ensuing transparent debate and struggle to challenge these social ills.


    In Islamic nations, the problem is thoroughly covered up, even worse, the victims are stigmatised with shame and dishonour.

    Presumably, the Dawahgandist dreams of transforming a liberal, open society into a closed, insular, shame based Islamic one, thus bringing triumph for the faith, and a brushing under the carpet of all social problems in the light of the denial culture that underpins Islam.

    Thank goodness that will never happen - transparent, open, liberal secular democracies seek to improve, to never accept they are perfect but to seek to be more understanding of what its problems are, all the better to solve them, and help the individuals and victimised.

    The dawah-gandist seeks to smother the individual, stigmatise the victims, and deny the abuse that then flourishes unchecked in the darkness.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #12 - June 27, 2012, 06:45 PM

    I only have one observation, billy: Islam is a guilt society (just like "the West"), and NOT a shame society.

    Shame society = Japan, Korea, etc...

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #13 - June 27, 2012, 06:47 PM

    Islam, like Christianity and traditional west societies, is based on the concept of guilt and sin.

    Ironically, Islam is way more western than eastern. So I find it slightly funny when people pretend like Islam is much different from "the West".

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #14 - June 27, 2012, 06:50 PM

    banghead banghead Why oh! Why ! don't  many,many,many...... more people see this charlatanry?

    Quote
    This is actually one of the things that makes liberal secular democracies great - they seek to solve and address social ills through transparency and openly debating and acknowledging these things.

    The Dawah peddler and Islamic supremacist, so blockheaded and simplistic and stuck in the culture of denial and contempt, views this as a weakness, and as material for him to use to abuse and attack liberal secular society in a most stupid and bigoted manner - viewing the open acknowledgement of  social problems simply as fodder for dawah - in order to erroneously compare Islam as superior, when we all know that Islamic societies tend to cripple those who seek to openly address these issues, and thus deny the existence of them, and certainly prevent the open examination of rape, sexual abuse through the collating and publishing of statistics and the ensuing transparent debate and struggle to challenge these social ills.


    This really is the crux of the matter ! But unfortunately even liberal secular democracies have to be defended against rabidly aggressive ideologies. Indifference in the name of tolerance can be very dangerous.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #15 - June 27, 2012, 07:50 PM

    I only have one observation, billy: Islam is a guilt society (just like "the West"), and NOT a shame society.

    Shame society = Japan, Korea, etc...


    Shame and honour are very much part of the social dynamic of Islam.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #16 - June 27, 2012, 07:59 PM

    Quote
    As the wikipedia page describes it, guilt is essentially the internalization of shame, but that's not quite right. The difference between guilt societies and shame societies is more analogous to the long-debated difference between morality and ethics.

    Guilt is private, while shame is public. Guilt is intrinsic and endogenous, while shame is extrinsic and exogenous.

    Hester Prynne (The Scarlet Letter) felt shame without guilt, while Raskolnikov (Crime and Punishment) felt guilt without shame (for the first half of the book).

    Your sense of guilt at committing an act is independent of your situation or what country you are in, while your sense of shame is highly dependent on the social situation around you. A castaway alone on an island could commit an act that would make her feel guilt, but nothing she could do would cause her to feel shame.

    Paul Hiebert's book (Anthropological Insights for Missionaries) adds a confounding religious twist to the definition in that guilt is supposed to be the internalization of sin (not shame), as well as an anxiety-ridden expectation of future (divine) punishment. But other authors (including E.R. Dodds, who formulated the distinction in 1951) take a more secular view of guilt societies as those driven by adherence to an internal moral code; the 'higher power' that has been violated may be an ideal residing in one's conscience rather than (or in addition to) a divine being.

    All agree that shame is essentially a public violation of a socially agreed-upon standard (like ethics), and that shame is thus a stronger force (relatively speaking) in more collectivist societies, while guilt plays a larger role in more individualist ones.

    Guilt places the individual at the center of the moral process, in judging himself (directly or through a religious metaphor), while shame places the individual in a social web of judgment and expectation, with hierarchies of authority.

    This also accounts for the differing flavors of resolution offered in each society. Guilt societies stress confession; the hurdle of guilt is a heroic journey of one's own, to mold and develop one's conscience among one's peers. More tightly-coupled shame societies stress self-punishment and self-denial; an ethical role has been violated, and society must be righted through the saving of face and lowering one's self from what was, essentially, a position of false authority.
    Not for Reproduction
    Comment • Post • Nov 30, 2010


    http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-guilt-society-and-a-shame-society

    Islam feels to me more of a guilt society unless I have misunderstood something.

    Is it a terrifying witches brew of both?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #17 - June 27, 2012, 08:40 PM


    Shame and honour as a mechanism of social control - that is a powerful regulator and preventative force.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #18 - June 27, 2012, 09:49 PM

    Dawah-ganda peddlers and Islamic supremacists use the transparency and openness of liberal democracies to try and abuse them - in that Western countries collect statistics about sexual crimes, and crime in general, and encourage the discussion and open acknowledgment of these issues in order to combat them and prevent them, and most importantly to work against stigmatisation of victims.

    This is actually one of the things that makes liberal secular democracies great - they seek to solve and address social ills through transparency and openly debating and acknowledging these things.................................................................


    Holy Cow Billy! That is brilliant. You have the gift of the gab.

    That is exactly what I think, but I can never find the exact words to express it so eloquently.  Afro

    I am convinced that you must be some university professor IRL.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #19 - June 28, 2012, 09:22 AM

    Good point 1:
    Shame society = Japan, Korea, etc...


    Good point 2:
    Quote
    Ironically, Islam is way more western than eastern. So I find it slightly funny when people pretend like Islam is much different from "the West".

    They know little (and care less) about either Islam or Christianity in Japan, but both are emphatically viewed as gaijin faiths, distant-gaijin faiths at that.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #20 - June 30, 2012, 11:53 AM

    Shame and honour are very much part of the social dynamic of Islam.

    They are part of every society, to some extent.

    But in "western" cultures (including Islam), the main control is through the concept of guilt and sin.
    That's why we invented the concept or "big powerful daddy living in the sky watching every move and sending you to hell if you step out of line".

    That's why in Islam (and Christianity) family members wants you acting a certain way even if the "outside world" does not even get a glimpse of that.
    In shame-based cultures that happens way less. What matters most is how "the others" perceive you.
    In a shame based society nobody would give a shit whether you ACTUALLY believe in gods or aliens. Or whether you like boys or girls. As long as you just ACT like a "respectable member of society".

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #21 - June 30, 2012, 12:04 PM

    Tlaloc, shame really is an all pervasive regulating hand inside Muslim societies especially in relation to honour, the family, and the freedom of girls and women in particular.

    Quote
    In shame-based cultures that happens way less. What matters most is how "the others" perceive you.


    That is the very definition of the difficulties this causes.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #22 - June 30, 2012, 01:18 PM

    The perfect storm - a shame and guilt based society!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Good Fundamentalists !
     Reply #23 - June 30, 2012, 02:25 PM

    umm.. this is off topic, but I'm really curious, how do I act on my part or what society cemb is based on?
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