How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316

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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
OP - May 29, 2012, 01:36 AM

http://sobersecondlook.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/how-we-were-sold-on-patriarchal-religion-reason-316/

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #1 - May 29, 2012, 04:22 AM

Brilliant blog... I've subscribed. Thanks for posting

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #2 - May 29, 2012, 05:39 AM

This is one of the few things that has always puzzled me about women. I mean I can see what a man gets out of a patriarchal system. That's a no brainer. Beats me why so many women seem to fall for it though.

The other confusing bits are the babies thing and the shoes thing. Apart from that they seem fairly sensible.

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #3 - May 29, 2012, 05:45 AM

Because they internalize sexism.
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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #4 - May 29, 2012, 05:53 AM

Why?

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #5 - May 29, 2012, 06:00 AM

When it comes to Islam, I think many women see it as an attractive alternative to objectification and sexualization of the female body. What they miss out on is that Islam plays into the discourse of objectification -- that a woman is defined by her body.
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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #6 - May 29, 2012, 06:03 AM

Mostly women throughout history and in almost every patriarchal culture have internalised sexism against themselves because of power. Sexism/misogyny have been the status quo and by going along with it, women gained (and still do in some ways, gain) a secondary, vicarious, hand-me-down kind of power of being the objects of patriarchy. They get to be treated like "princesses", have their way paid for, have some illusion of security (from other men) by submitting themselves to certain men. Women, like men, have found ways to survive within the systems of oppression that they have existed in.

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #7 - May 29, 2012, 06:32 AM

Yeah but surviving in a system doesn't necessitate believing in it. Seems to me it might be related to things like Stockholm Syndrome, however that works (NFI on that one).

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #8 - May 29, 2012, 06:34 AM

Yeah most women inherit about 10,000 years worth of Stockholm Syndrome.

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #9 - May 29, 2012, 07:45 AM

What dafuq?

Another post of mine vanished into CEMB-space...

So... as I was saying, thank you deusvult for the link, it brought tears to my eyes, was very well written and I liked it ALOT.
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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #10 - May 29, 2012, 10:10 AM

Quote from: deusvult on May 29, 2012, 01:36 AM
http://sobersecondlook.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/how-we-were-sold-on-patriarchal-religion-reason-316/

Quote
Women’s Qur’an recitation shouldn’t be heard by men, in order to protect women’s dignity......

Having to provide sexual access to your husband whenever he desires it is just and fair. ...

women praying in the mosque behind barriers, behind curtains, in the basement . It’s to protect your dignity, Sister. We honor women......

if a man feels desire for a woman, this somehow tarnishes .......

Islam protects women’s “dignity” gives women “self-respect” and teaches men to “respect” women....

That Islamic law treats women “equitably.” That Islam is “the natural way.”...

Yap....

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #11 - May 29, 2012, 10:58 AM

Quote from: allat on May 29, 2012, 06:34 AM
Yeah most women inherit about 10,000 years worth of Stockholm Syndrome.

Excellent post first of all. Thanks for sharing it with us, deusvuit.

I agree with you on that allat (I think Abood also have a fair point). But this is also about fear of death - its a form of fatalism that makes many Muslim women still believe in Islam and accept its patriarchal culture. Like why not accept oppression the 70 years you live, when you will receive happiness for eternity?

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #12 - May 29, 2012, 11:01 AM

If you mentally groom people through psychological reinforcement, by family, community and society from childhood onwards, you can make them dependent on any prejudicial idea. Especially if you make this idea intrinsic to the wider, greater cause, and central to their identity. The self-loathing inherent in this idea can be excused for the greater good.

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #13 - May 29, 2012, 11:25 AM

Quote from: deusvult on May 29, 2012, 01:36 AM
http://sobersecondlook.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/how-we-were-sold-on-patriarchal-religion-reason-316/

Looks interesting.
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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #14 - May 29, 2012, 04:05 PM

Quote from: deusvult on May 29, 2012, 01:36 AM
http://sobersecondlook.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/how-we-were-sold-on-patriarchal-religion-reason-316/

Excellent post, thank you for sharing.
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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #15 - May 29, 2012, 06:21 PM

(holy shit I typed all this on my phone, and i didn't know how long it was on my tiny screen sry I make long winded posts)

I remember having a conversation with my Egyptian Muslim friend. She's one of those people who post 'Allah' and Islam is great Memes all
Over her Facebook. She tell me she is so impatient to get a husband and she wants to get married have many children and proudly where a niqab (she's 24) and I was asking her what the appeal to that was. And she seems really ghung-ho to get into motherhood and be absolutely obedient to her husband. While at the same time constantly reminding me that any thing I've heard about the mistreatment of women is a lie. Islam gives wife rights, a woman has freedom
To work and do what she wants. Islam allows divorce where other religions condemn it. Etc. Etc.
I'm worried as she gets lost in her perfect husband fantasy. She might end up like some of the ex-Muslims here with abusive husbands which impose their interpretations of Islam and then blame themselves, or say their husbands are mis-imterpretating things and Islam is not to blame.

I mean I don't really try to out anything in her head because then I would be no better than someone trying to impose their religious belief on me. maybe he might become dis-satisfied because while she talks about wearing a burqa, she says she has male friends, plays fighting games, wants to go sand surfing, loves to belly dance and so on. But she's willing giving up all those things. She no longer even listens to music, and I has to send her a specifically non-scented lotion because perfume is haram. She says she loves it but only wears it when she's at home. So sometimes there seems to be mixed messages, as Muslim women give up their hobbies for the sale of prayer and Muslim pride. Yet at the same token you wonder if this is genuine sacrifice, or if it comes with pain and doubt. I really hope she gets her 'perfect Muslim husband' she also likes to say Egyptian men treat their women like queens. (again the appeal
Of. Being pampered in exchange for 'simple' obedience.

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Re: How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #16 - May 29, 2012, 06:34 PM

I left a comment on the blog:

Quote
Brilliantly put. i think perhaps my only comment would be that you yourself have inadvertently used wording that panders to this patriarchal attitude. You describe the experience of being upstairs to pray as being hampered due to gossiping women, and personally I believe that describing women as gossips is something that continues to perpetuate a myth about women as if it is only women who gossip.

This may not have been your intention, but much as you speak about the power of words and how changing their interpretation doesn’t change the words itself, nor the belief it leaves one with, gossiping women sits on that line.

Good post though.

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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #17 - December 07, 2013, 10:00 AM

Cool thread.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #18 - December 08, 2013, 03:47 AM

The article, "A Sober Second Look" was kind of Interesting. I suppose anything that can be done correctly can be abused.
When I read back over the above before I went to post it it sounded just a little to much like I couldn't care less on the matter which isn't the case.
Undoubtedly women who are in abusive relationships that are Muslims ARE iN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS just the same as anyone else who is in an abusive relationship.
With the slightest motivation a very accurate and emotionally touching article could be written on the abusive doubletalk that has been carried out on western women of all walks of life to be ever young, thin and gorgeous. Details of some the barbaric steps women take to reach this ideal are sad indeed.
Neither extreme is right or good.
Where though is the best path to take...perhaps each individual needs to carefully consider what it is they want.

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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #19 - December 08, 2013, 04:37 AM

Good job, Necromancer. This is exactly how it was, for me, as well, in that original post link.

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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #20 - March 19, 2014, 01:20 PM

In Islam women are private properties, but PROPERTIES nonetheless and not humans. Someone summarised Islamic women like this- Muslim women are like furniture. They are covered to protect them from dust, scratches, etc. and then auctioned at a price. Even women are encouraged to ask for dowries in low amount. Marriage is the union of two people and their families, not a purchase !
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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #21 - March 19, 2014, 02:43 PM

Women who help to support and uphold the patriarchal system may be awarded by being given the opportunity to climb up the hierarchical pyramid of patriarchy. Not all women are equally subjugated in a patriarchal society, but they are always under the men at the top of the pyramid.

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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #22 - March 19, 2014, 03:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwr58mQCofE

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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How we were sold on patriarchal religion reason#316
Reply #23 - March 19, 2014, 03:11 PM

that episode was entertaining

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