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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
  • Yes: He pretended to recieve revelation with the goal of changing his society. - 5 (11.9%)
  • No: He believed in a God but was still pretending to recieve revelation. - 6 (14.3%)
  • No: He was deluded and actually believed he was receiving revelations. - 17 (40.5%)
  • No: He is the True Prophet of God. - 1 (2.4%)
  • Muhammad never existed in the first place. - 6 (14.3%)
  • Dont' know. - 6 (14.3%)
  • Other (specify). - 1 (2.4%)
  • Total Voters: 42

 Topic: Was Muhammad an Atheist?

 (Read 10572 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #30 - May 02, 2012, 01:01 AM

    Awww 001_wub Thank you. I like your posts too when they're not referring to African politics. Tongue Cuz I know nothing about African politics, LOL.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #31 - May 02, 2012, 01:09 AM

    African politics is a fascinating topic solely because corruption is the order of the day... and oh, the eccentricity of the leaders Tongue

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #32 - May 02, 2012, 01:11 AM

    It always makes me kind of sad reading about African politics, cuz my image of Africa as seen in "The Lion King" and "King Solomon's Mines" is completely shattered. :(

    ...but I'm not gonna derail this thread too  lipsrsealed So I'll stop talking. But I have more to say!! Tongue

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #33 - May 02, 2012, 01:17 AM

      "The Lion King" and "King Solomon's Mines"

    You've just about got it covered there.
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #34 - May 02, 2012, 01:23 AM

    Sometimes I include "Blood Diamond" too.  Afro

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #35 - May 02, 2012, 01:34 AM

    A young lady of the broadest culture.
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #36 - May 02, 2012, 01:35 AM

    LOOOOL!!! Cheesy Cheesy It's not my fault they never have any documentaries on African politics on the Discovery Channel! All I ever learn about is dolphins and electricity and stuff.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #37 - May 02, 2012, 10:18 AM

    Personally I think he was a very good con-artist and I don't think he believed his own hype. I do think he was a person but I do think that over time many myths and things have been created around him and attributed to him.
  • Re: Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #38 - May 02, 2012, 10:28 AM

    Its surprising how some people believe Ali Sina's theory that Mo was deluded and actually believed he was receiving revelations.  Huh?

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #39 - September 15, 2014, 02:34 PM

    wtf

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #40 - September 15, 2014, 08:34 PM

    Its surprising how some people believe Ali Sina's theory that Mo was deluded and actually believed he was receiving revelations.  Huh?

    Didn't know Sina thought that. It actually wouldn't surprise me if he had the odd vision, his symptoms are consistent with people today who have similar experiences. If he did have one or two visions (which I think is a very real possibility) he obviously just made shit up later on as he got more comfortable in his role as a prophet.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #41 - September 21, 2014, 06:08 PM

    I'd say a bit of both. The initial revelations were probably hallucinations or something similar, while the later ones were just lies to either suit Mo's convenience or affirm his divinity. Sort of like those fables where the guy tells a single, rather outlandish lie, which then ends up with him being forced to spin a whole web of lies, lest he admit that he was lying initially.
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #42 - September 21, 2014, 07:35 PM

    I'd say a bit of both. The initial revelations were probably hallucinations or something similar, while the later ones were just lies to either suit Mo's convenience or affirm his divinity. Sort of like those fables where the guy tells a single, rather outlandish lie, which then ends up with him being forced to spin a whole web of lies, lest he admit that he was lying initially.

    Hello JayMac  glad to read you., how are you doing?? But what revelations are you talking JayMac.. No revelations..  No one revealed  anything to any one  in the history of mankind.. 

    Franky if there was  Muhammad.,  ,I would say,  not even 10% of Quran has  come from Muhammad.,  The book is written by many people way after the alleged death of that guy.. Give me few chapters or  verses of initial Quran that you think were reveled /hallucinations of  Muhammad. 

    with bet wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #43 - September 21, 2014, 09:01 PM

    Quote
    Hello JayMac  glad to read you., how are you doing?? But what revelations are you talking JayMac.. No revelations..  No one revealed  anything to any one  in the history of mankind.. 

    Franky if there was  Muhammad.,  ,I would say,  not even 10% of Quran has  come from Muhammad.,  The book is written by many people way after the alleged death of that guy.. Give me few chapters or  verses of initial Quran that you think were reveled /hallucinations of  Muhammad. 

    with bet wishes
    yeezevee

    Hello Yeezevee.

    I'm doing great thanks mate Smiley. Just started college so will be posting a bit less frequently. But I'm still here.  Wink

    Interesting evaluation. The idea that Muhammad as we know him was not real is certainly plausible. It does make sense as to the extreme amount of contradictions in the Quran. Not just errors, which are to be expected from a book from that period, but the sheer amount of times it contradicts itself.
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #44 - September 27, 2014, 04:53 PM

    Ali Sina in his book makes a good point about Mohammad having epileptic fits for a bit until he stopped and continued to make up revelations.
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #45 - September 27, 2014, 05:38 PM

    I'd like to see evidence of him not even existing. That would be interesting...

    Likewise, it just being a master-plan, and him being a manipulative atheist. What evidence do we have from his words or behaviour that this may have been the case? I'd be interested in any research done by modern psychologists that supports this.

    All we do know is, he believed he was a Prophet. Which leads to two conclusions. Either he was. Or he wasn't. It's clear he wasn't when you analyse the religion. So the logical conclusion is he was deluded. In other words, he truly believed it even though it obviously isn't true.

    I think it was a combination of things...there's a lot of factors involved, before a person can not only start a religion, but make it the most successful one in history!

    Muhammad was obviously an extreme alpha male. Men like this are not born often. He had tremendous self-belief and confidence. He was a leader. Think of all the greatest emperors and warriors throughout history...yep they're alpha males, not sheep.

    Oh the irony! Now we have sheep throughout the world following his religion. But had Muhammad been born in this era and come across a religion like this, my guess is he would denounce it! Just like he was against the backwards idol worshipping at the time. By all accounts, he was a progressive in that particular era. A revolutionary.

    He was also very intelligent. And extremely spiritual. He had come across Christinary and Judaism throughout his travels, and they struck a chord. They must have fascinated him. Deep down inside, he probably wanted to be Prophet too!

    Then there's the other factors. The abysmal state of the Arabs at the time. I'm guessing he saw what was going on with his people, and didn't like it! He probably wanted a revolution...

    So let's add these up

    - Natural alpha male
    - Spiritual and deep thinker
    - Fascinated by other religions throughout his travels
    - Wannabe revolutionary who was annoyed with his people
    - Wannabe prophet too
    - Probably a narcissist too
    - A control freak

    All of these thoughts and experiences combined can in the right person, turn them into someone special. Someone who can alter history.

    So I believe he was almost "seeking" for a calling. He wanted to do something. And so when the first supposed revelation came, I believe it did appear real to him.

    Your subconscious mind is powerful. Whatever you think about and desire, can often come true - as your mind will want to make it come true.

    And belief is a powerful thing. I think from then on, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more he believed in himself, and the more others believed in him, the more he believed he was a Prophet.

    There are people out there who believe they are abducted by aliens. There are conspiracy theory nuts, who genuinely believe a one-eyed organisation controls the world. They propagate it like it's God's truth. People believe crazy shit in the world!

    You can believe anything! If you truly believe it - your mind will start looking for so-called evidence too...

    So in short, I think it was a combination of the right person,  in the right circumstances, with the right opportunity - that created Islam. But I do think he believed in his message, and believed he was someone special - a Prophet.

    Occurrences like this do not happen often, which is why most of the World only follows 4-5 religions. Everything has to be right for a belief system like this to start and then to dominate the world.

    That's my view anyway.
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #46 - September 27, 2014, 05:50 PM

    Just reading what I wrote...

    And I actually admire Muhammad for many reasons. For the record, I'm an ex-Muslim.

    But if we had a person with his belief and characteristics in the modern world, I'm sure we could make the Muslim world progressive and start breaking down the hold Islam has on people.

    I keep thinking that person should be me. It's a long-term goal. I'm not even joking Smiley
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #47 - September 27, 2014, 05:55 PM

    Muhammad cut peoples heads off to do what he did. We don't need that in the modern world.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #48 - September 27, 2014, 05:59 PM

    In that era, being ruthless like that was pretty normal...everyone was at it.

    It's only been a few centuries since the West stopped crazy punishments like this.

    If that's what you took from my posts, then you obviously misunderstood them.
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #49 - September 27, 2014, 06:13 PM

    yeah OK

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #50 - September 28, 2014, 06:42 AM

    Just reading what I wrote...

    And I actually admire Muhammad for many reasons. For the record, I'm an ex-Muslim.

    But if we had a person with his belief and characteristics in the modern world, I'm sure we could make the Muslim world progressive and start breaking down the hold Islam has on people.

    I keep thinking that person should be me. It's a long-term goal. I'm not even joking Smiley

    As portrayed in islam Mo was an interesting character, I agree with you there. He started something that is still impacting the world today. I think that to just dismiss how influential he was is not only unfair but also idiotic. If there was a TV show about him similar to Rome or Spartacus I'd watch it, likewise a movie. What makes our reactions and criticisms different to say Vlad Tepes or Attila the Hun is that people don't try to live like Tepes or Attila today and employ those norms and morality in the 21st century.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #51 - September 28, 2014, 09:06 AM

    Just reading what I wrote...

    And I actually admire Muhammad for many reasons. For the record, I'm an ex-Muslim.

    But if we had a person with his belief and characteristics in the modern world, I'm sure we could make the Muslim world progressive and start breaking down the hold Islam has on people.

    I keep thinking that person should be me. It's a long-term goal. I'm not even joking Smiley


    Good luck with it  : )  My phone cant quote, but you were talking about the timings and emergence of religions, i read an interesting history book once that claimed religions or empires, civilizations were formed usually after a major catastrophe or upheaval that tended to bring people together, it claimed that islam was established after a major natural disaster, theres evidence of some natural catastrophe such as a super volcanoe and a plague followed, the black death wiping out a good portion of the earths poplulation, most existing empires were weakened, apparently people thought the end of times was upon them, i think the black death is breifly mentioned in the quran.. ? But this gave a revolutionary like mohamed or a bunch of power hungry arabs or local christians a platform to create a new religious movement, must find the book, its around here somewhere 
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #52 - September 28, 2014, 02:47 PM

    I'd like to see evidence of him not even existing. That would be interesting...

    Likewise, it just being a master-plan, and him being a manipulative atheist. What evidence do we have from his words or behaviour that this may have been the case? I'd be interested in any research done by modern psychologists that supports this.

    All we do know is, he believed he was a Prophet. Which leads to two conclusions. Either he was. Or he wasn't. It's clear he wasn't when you analyse the religion. So the logical conclusion is he was deluded. In other words, he truly believed it even though it obviously isn't true.

    I think it was a combination of things...there's a lot of factors involved, before a person can not only start a religion, but make it the most successful one in history!

    Muhammad was obviously an extreme alpha male. Men like this are not born often. He had tremendous self-belief and confidence. He was a leader. Think of all the greatest emperors and warriors throughout history...yep they're alpha males, not sheep.

    Oh the irony! Now we have sheep throughout the world following his religion. But had Muhammad been born in this era and come across a religion like this, my guess is he would denounce it! Just like he was against the backwards idol worshipping at the time. By all accounts, he was a progressive in that particular era. A revolutionary.

    He was also very intelligent. And extremely spiritual. He had come across Christinary and Judaism throughout his travels, and they struck a chord. They must have fascinated him. Deep down inside, he probably wanted to be Prophet too!

    Then there's the other factors. The abysmal state of the Arabs at the time. I'm guessing he saw what was going on with his people, and didn't like it! He probably wanted a revolution...
    So let's add these up

    - Natural alpha male
    - Spiritual and deep thinker
    - Fascinated by other religions throughout his travels
    - Wannabe revolutionary who was annoyed with his people
    - Wannabe prophet too
    - Probably a narcissist too
    - A control freak

    All of these thoughts and experiences combined can in the right person, turn them into someone special. Someone who can alter history. 

    So I believe he was almost "seeking" for a calling. He wanted to do something. And so when the first supposed revelation came, I believe it did appear real to him.

    Your subconscious mind is powerful. Whatever you think about and desire, can often come true - as your mind will want to make it come true.

    And belief is a powerful thing. I think from then on, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more he believed in himself, and the more others believed in him, the more he believed he was a Prophet.

    There are people out there who believe they are abducted by aliens. There are conspiracy theory nuts, who genuinely believe a one-eyed organisation controls the world. They propagate it like it's God's truth. People believe crazy shit in the world!

    You can believe anything! If you truly believe it - your mind will start looking for so-called evidence too...

    So in short, I think it was a combination of the right person,  in the right circumstances, with the right opportunity - that created Islam. But I do think he believed in his message, and believed he was someone special - a Prophet.

    Occurrences like this do not happen often, which is why most of the World only follows 4-5 religions. Everything has to be right for a belief system like this to start and then to dominate the world.

    That's my view anyway.


    All that tells me Aryan Khan neither read Quran, nor read hadith and doesn't know much about Early and medieval Islamic history ..

    Correct me If I am wrong Aryan Khan ...  and and I voted for this

    Muhammad never existed in the first place.

    but that statement is not right., It should be changed to  Muhammad of Quran and Muhammad of Hadith as described in those silly books never existed in the first place .

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Was Muhammad an Atheist?
     Reply #53 - October 11, 2014, 01:49 AM

    Good luck with it  : )  My phone cant quote, but you were talking about the timings and emergence of religions, i read an interesting history book once that claimed religions or empires, civilizations were formed usually after a major catastrophe or upheaval that tended to bring people together, it claimed that islam was established after a major natural disaster, theres evidence of some natural catastrophe such as a super volcanoe and a plague followed, the black death wiping out a good portion of the earths poplulation, most existing empires were weakened, apparently people thought the end of times was upon them, i think the black death is breifly mentioned in the quran.. ? But this gave a revolutionary like mohamed or a bunch of power hungry arabs or local christians a platform to create a new religious movement, must find the book, its around here somewhere 


    Yes - that makes sense to me. Would be interested in reading that book!

    yeezevee can you clarify your point? Not sure what you are saying and how it is relevant to my points. So you believe he existed but the Quran and Hadith are completely inaccurate? How would you back up that assertion?

    I mean, it's not like the Quran and Hadith paint a rosy picture of him. Far from it!


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