Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia

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Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
OP - April 09, 2012, 07:27 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17446831

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I speak as the daughter of King Saud, the former ruler of Saudi Arabia. My father established the first women's university in the kingdom, abolished slavery and tried to establish a constitutional monarchy that separates the position of king from that of prime minister. But I am saddened to say that my beloved country today has not fulfilled that early promise.

Our ancient culture, of which I am very proud, is renowned for its nobility and generosity, but we lack, and urgently need, fundamental civil laws with which to govern our society.

As a daughter, sister, (former) wife, mother, businesswoman and a working journalist, these are the things that I would like to see changed in Saudi Arabia.

1. Constitution

Princess Basma is divorced and lives with her children in London

I would like to see a proper constitution that treats all men and women on an equal footing before the law but that also serves as a guide to our civil laws and political culture.

For example, today in Saudi courts, all decisions are made according to the individual judge's interpretation of the holy Koran. This is entirely dependent on his own personal beliefs and upbringing rather than universally agreed principles or a written constitution as a guide.

I am not calling for a western system but an adaptation of that system to suit our needs and culture. Thus our constitution should be inspired by the philosophy of the Koran with principles that are set in stone and not open to the whims of individual judges as is the case now.

In particular, the constitution should protect every citizen's basic human rights regardless of their sex, status or sect. Everyone should be equal before the law.......

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #1 - April 09, 2012, 11:35 AM

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The content of the syllabus is extremely dangerous. For one, our young are taught that a woman's position in society is inferior. Her role is strictly limited to serving her family and raising children. They are actually taught that if a woman has to worship anyone other than God it should be her husband; "that the angels will curse her if she is not submissive to her husband's needs". Girls are also strictly forbidden from taking part in any physical education. This is a result of a complete misinterpretation of the Koran. I consider these ideologies to be inherently abusive.

So what she is trying to say is that she doesn't want hadiths followed anymore? That's the only 'misrepresentation of the quran' that she is talking about in ^^ this situation. And slightly disingenuous to say what she is. Saying it is a misrepresentation of the Quran, when something is not even in the Quran means that when non muslims go look in a quran, it confirms what she has said and thus they think that it is all lies and not part of Islam.

The truth is it is in the hadiths which consitute islam for a lot of muslims, but the non muslim and uneducated muslim will not understand that.

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Aside from that, the focus in most of our educational system is on religious subjects such as hadith (sayings attributed to the prophet), Fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), tafssir (interpretation of the Koran) and of course the Koran. The attitude is that "learning itself, anything other than religion won't get you into heaven so don't waste your time". I would like to see religious teaching limited to the Koran and the Sunna (the way the prophet lived), where the true ethics of Islam lie. The rest is blind rote learning of the most dangerous kind. It has left our youth vulnerable to fundamentalist ideologies that have led to terrorism and abuse of the true meaning of the Koran.

But then here she says she still wants sunna (hadiths) taught for ethical reasons, which contradicts her stance against the misogyny she doesn't want taught because it's not the 'quran'

Meh, I find it somewhat lame listening to the words of a pampered princess who lives in the UK, talk about what women in Saudi need or what proper Islam is. She is free in comparison to them, what does she know about homeland Islam.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #2 - April 09, 2012, 11:36 AM

^^Hypocrisy 101 though.

What would I know too.

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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #3 - April 09, 2012, 02:24 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 11:35 AM
So what she is trying to say is that she doesn't want hadiths followed anymore?

Are there any hadith that explicitly say the woman's role is limited to her home? Aisha was one of the major if not biggest political players during and after Muhammed. I guess she's one of those who wants to go back to that mentality, I call it "idealist Islamism". As for physical education, its fard for everyone to keep their body healthy so its pretty stupid to say women can't exercise and play sports.....and there was at least one female warrior during 7th century Islamic Arabia.

Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 11:35 AM
Meh, I find it somewhat lame listening to the words of a pampered princess who lives in the UK, talk about what women in Saudi need or what proper Islam is. She is free in comparison to them, what does she know about homeland Islam.

She could easily be 'disowned' for speaking out like this, meaning no $ and could be risking her life, its not only ex-muslims who are danger when they speak out. So only muslims in muslim country's can have an opinion on what Islam is and what muslimahs need? Does that mean we should stop expressing our opinions too? Personally, I like her style, the only way to reform Islam and change the muslim way of thinking is reform from within. Anything deemed an "attack on Islam" or an "insult" will be censored and stopped, not only by clerics but by normal muslims, including muslimahs themselves.
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #4 - April 09, 2012, 02:27 PM

Quote from: Aphrodite on April 09, 2012, 02:24 PM
Are there any hadith that explicitly say the woman's role is limited to her home? Aisha was one of the major if not biggest political players during and after Muhammed...................

After reading so much what I write you don't get it Aphrodite., The secret of Islam was and is ., In the History of Islam there was no Muhammad and there was no Aisha..

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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #5 - April 09, 2012, 02:30 PM

Sometimes, I wish there was no yeezevee. I said sometimes!
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #6 - April 09, 2012, 02:31 PM

Quote from: Aphrodite on April 09, 2012, 02:24 PM
Are there any hadith that explicitly say the woman's role is limited to her home? Aisha was one of the major if not biggest political players during and after Muhammed. I guess she's one of those who wants to go back to that mentality, I call it "idealist Islamism". As for physical education, its fard for everyone to keep their body healthy so its pretty stupid to say women can't exercise and play sports.....and there was at least one female warrior during 7th century Islamic Arabia.

My point was in relation to these 2 things:

They are actually taught that if a woman has to worship anyone other than God it should be her husband

"that the angels will curse her if she is not submissive to her husband's needs"

Not about being told to stay in.

However as a woman who was made to stay home and told this over and over and over again by the muslims around me, religious backing might not exist that explicitly states she has to stay home, but she has to obey her husband.

if her husband forbids her from going out, he has every right to, if she disobeys, there are some nice quranic methods to bringing her back in line.

Aisha - 1 her hubby clearly didn't mind her being a voice for islam, and 2, her hubby was dead and she was a widow.

Obedience to your husband is islamic.

Furthermore are there any religious laws that explicitly state (hadiths and quran) that he can not forbid her from going out if she wants to?

Quote
She could easily be 'disowned' for speaking out like this, meaning no $ and could be risking her life, its not only ex-muslims who are danger when they speak out. So only muslims in muslim country's can have an opinion on what Islam is and what muslimahs need? Does that mean we should stop expressing our opinions too? Personally, I like her style, the only way to reform Islam and change the muslim way of thinking is reform from within. Anything deemed an "attack on Islam" or an "insult" will be censored and stopped, not only by clerics but by normal muslims, including muslimahs themselves.

and you talk about the "attack or insult on islam" in relation to OTT islamic interpretation by muslims themselves as being the insult?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #7 - April 09, 2012, 02:49 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:31 PM
My point was in relation to these 2 things:

They are actually taught that if a woman has to worship anyone other than God it should be her husband

"that the angels will curse her if she is not submissive to her husband's needs"

Not about being told to stay in.

Ah ok.

Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:31 PM
However as a woman who was made to stay home and told this over and over and over again by the muslims around me, religious backing might not exist that explicitly states she has to stay home, but she has to obey her husband.

if her husband forbids her from going out, he has every right to, if she disobeys, there are some nice quranic methods to bringing her back in line.

Aisha - 1 her hubby clearly didn't mind her being a voice for islam, and 2, her hubby was dead and she was a widow.

Obedience to your husband is islamic.

Agreed.
Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:31 PM
Furthermore are there any religious laws that explicitly state (hadiths and quran) that he can not forbid her from going out if she wants to?

I don't know, doubt it. I was taught that a woman can only leave the home without her hubby's permission if the house was about to collapse or some other form of danger, or if she goes out for necessities like food. That was all in fiqh books though written by scholars, don't remember any hadith being quoted.

Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:31 PM
and you talk about the "attack or insult on islam" in relation to OTT islamic interpretation by muslims themselves as being the insult?

Hmmm? I don't get ya. :S
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #8 - April 09, 2012, 02:55 PM

^^ Nevermind, I just re-read what you said, I read it in a way that made me think "huh, where is the attack on islam I don't get it, does she mean scholars misrepresenting islam are the attack"

But what you meant was when it comes from outsiders it is seen as an attack or an insult so it needs to come from within.

My bad.

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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #9 - April 09, 2012, 03:18 PM

Hahaha! The first things I would change about Saudia would be:

1. Less malls -- it's such a pain when you go to a mall to buy something and it turns out that the store you want is in ANOTHER mall. Best to just compress all the stores into one or two really, really big malls.

2. More Al Baik for the people -- the populace demand Al Baik!!! Unfortunately, the poor people in Riyadh are not provided with Al Baik cuz of political stuff. This is an outrage against capitalism.

3. Another fountain -- there's a fountain in the Red Sea on the Corniche coast in Jeddah. I vote they build another, just for the heck of it! XD

4. More English bookstores -- honestly, my dad never lets us use his credit card, so our access to good English books was severely limited.

5. More pics of King Abdullah emblazoned across building walls -- cuz I love that guy's smiling face.

6. More amusement parks!!! Lots of them!!

7. ANIMAL CONTROL! Those random garbage dump cats need homes!!!

After establishing all of the above, y'all can work on a Constitution or human rights or whatever....

Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

Expect me to come back a Muslim. j/k we'll see..
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #10 - April 09, 2012, 06:17 PM

She lives in Acton? Wow, must be a down at heel princess, what happened to Knightsbridge and Mayfair.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #11 - April 09, 2012, 06:45 PM

Maybe she likes sushi - there's an excellent Japanese fishmonger in Acton.
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #12 - April 09, 2012, 07:00 PM

Wiki says there's a Japanese school and a Japanese community there, so it sounds better than I remembered it already.

Also turns out that the King Fahad school is there, run along Saudi curriculum, remember this?

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In February 2007 the school was featured on BBC's Newsnight programme where the school's director Dr Sumaya Aluyusuf defended the use of Saudi textbooks describing religions other than Islam as 'worthless', comparing their adherents to pigs and monkeys. The books were later edited, and the controversial descriptions removed.

Well, that was nice of them!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Fahad_Academy

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #13 - April 20, 2012, 06:14 PM

For fuck's sake, that article is just dripping with her obvious cognitive dissonance. Her entire motivation can be summed up in this one line:

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I am not calling for a western system but an adaptation of that system to suit our needs and culture.

Except what she's really saying is:

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I am ~~not~~ calling for a western system but ~~an adaptation of that system to suit our needs and culture.~~ let's pretend it's our own.

And there's no need to rush on any changes that will have an immediate effect, like letting women drive. We don't want the men to feel threatened.

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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #14 - April 29, 2012, 11:31 AM

Quote from: chepea on April 09, 2012, 03:18 PM
Hahaha! The first things I would change about Saudia would be:

7. ANIMAL CONTROL! Those random garbage dump cats need homes!!!

YESSS cats need homes. Should be top of the list!

JK, but it defo needs to be on the list. Womens rights should be at the top- Sick of those dub clerics making up stupid rules like "women can't drive because they'll lose their virginity", it takes a special type of tard to come up with crap like that.
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Re: Wat I would change in Saudi Arabia - daughter of Saud
Reply #15 - April 29, 2012, 12:38 PM

Quote from: apostasist on April 29, 2012, 11:31 AM
those dub clerics

Ali 'Sctatch' Perry?
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