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 Topic: "Honor killings" require tougher laws....

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  • "Honor killings" require tougher laws....
     OP - March 10, 2012, 10:46 AM

    "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women

    Quote
    Near the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk, a father doused his three teenage daughters with boiling water and shot them because, he told a court, he suspected they were having sex. Two died. He said he killed them to defend his honor.

    Murder in Iraq can carry a death sentence but under laws that activists say are far too lenient for so-called "honor killings," the father was jailed for just two years. Medical examinations showed the girls were virgins. The light sentence was a result of Article 409 of Iraq's penal code which is often used in cases of "honor killings" by men. Women's activists in Iraq, led by the only woman in Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's cabinet, Minister of State for Women's Affairs Ibtihal al-Zaidi, are lobbying to change the law.

    But they say they face entrenched tribal values in a country where parliament includes many men from conservative parties. For decades Iraqi women have enjoyed more freedoms than women in many other countries in the Middle East. They are generally free from the strict enforcement of dress codes or restrictions on movement, and can join political life. But conservative tribal norms still prevail and all too often girls or women are punished by relatives for what are perceived to be crimes of honor.  Such cases can be difficult to document. An Iraqi Human Rights ministry report said 249 women were murdered in 2010, including for reasons of "honor crimes," without giving a breakdown. Amnesty International cites the ministry as saying at least 84 women were killed in Iraq in honor killings in 2009.

    Quote
    Article 409 reduces a murder sentence to a maximum of three years if a man "surprises his wife or one of his female dependents (who is) in a state of adultery or finds her in bed with a partner and kills her immediately, or kills one of them."

    Families can cover up the crimes and courts may turn a blind eye. Political party allies among the authorities can help provide false testimony or witnesses. "One reason the numbers of honor killings aren't known is because when they're presented to court, they are presented as suicides," Surood Ahmed, from the Kirkuk office of Iraq's al-Amal Association for Women, told Reuters.


    "The police are lenient with the perpetrator because they say 'we're sons of the society', so we can't be tough on him." The deaths near Kirkuk in 2008 were documented by Amal in Kirkuk for a report by Chicago's DePaul University. The third daughter lost an eye and suffered a severe mental disability. When her father left jail, she returned to live with him because there was no other place to go.

    EQUALITY IN PUNISHMENT

    Zaidi said she wants to change Iraqi law to provide equal sentences for male and female perpetrators, without the special exemption for male killers provided under article 409.
    Quote
    She recounted the story of a 12-year-old Iraqi girl who killed her father after she saw him committing adultery. She was sentenced to 15 years in jail.

    "If a man saw one of his female dependents committing adultery, how would he be punished? Six months and he'll get out," said Zaidi, who wears a headscarf.

    "A woman, even a 12-year-old, got 15 years in jail for an act she committed out of fear and horror of what she saw.

    "Definitely, we have brought up this issue and we asked 'where is the fairness and justice?'. Here the sentence for a woman differs from a man's. Fairness and equality is required in this issue," Zaidi told Reuters in an interview Sunday.


    Zaidi said she was planning to present a recommendation to the cabinet to modify Article 409 to require the same sentence for male and female killers. But she believes any proposed changes to the law are likely to provoke a "strong reaction."

    "At the end of the day, we are a Middle Eastern culture where tribal norms dictate affairs," said Zaidi, an Arabic linguist and independent member of Maliki's ruling coalition.

    "We will require some time before these recommendations turn into law ... there needs to be social awareness about this issue."

    Zaidi said she also hoped to pass a law against domestic violence this year. Official statistics indicate 20 percent of Iraqi women face domestic abuse.

    Sundus Abbas, who heads the Women's Leadership Institute, a rights group with branches in seven Iraqi provinces, says the true figure for women who face sexual and domestic abuse is as high as 73 percent.

    Zaidi's proposed changes to the honor killing law fail to address the issue, she said. Giving female killers the same rights as male killers would still provide "legal cover for violence against women."

    "It is not correct to give the husband the right to kill his wife under this pretext and to give the same right to the wife in the same provision," she told Reuters.

    "I believe (Article 409) must be abolished and instead have a law that punishes a crime regardless of the reason."

    Iraq Laws on Women

    Those laws are the direct result of Islam in the society..

    Quote
    Article 393: Rape

    A private offense
    No minimum penalty
    Sentence takes into account if victim was a virgin (means past sexual history is a factor)


    Quote
    Mitigated Sentences for “Honor Killings” Iraqi Penal Code Number 111 of 1969, Article 409:

    Any person who surprises his wife or close female relative in the act of adultery and kills them immediately or one of them or assaults one of them so that he or she dies or is left  permanently disabled is punishable by a period of detention not exceeding 3 years. It is not permissible to exercise the right of legal defense against any person who uses this excuse nor do the rules of aggravating circumstance apply against him.


    FOOLS MAKE PATHETIC LAWS based on stupid religions.. and Muslims are worst in this respect.

    Iraq Penal Codes

    Women and the Law in Iraq December 2010

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #1 - March 10, 2012, 05:25 PM

    How does Honor Killing relate to Islam Huh??

    Whenever I mention Honor Killing to some Muslims they leap with arguments such as IT IS NOT ISLAMIC, it is tribal tradition in the middle east and shit like that.

  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #2 - March 10, 2012, 06:29 PM

    Yeah, I never heard of this being linked to any part of the Quran, or any hadith. I assumed it was more about “tradition” than religion.
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #3 - March 10, 2012, 06:38 PM

    [quote author=sturmgewehr link=topic=20024.msg570740#msg570740 date=1331400355]
    How does Honor Killing relate to Islam ????

    Whenever I mention Honor Killing to some Muslims they leap with arguments such as IT IS NOT ISLAMIC, it is tribal tradition in the middle east and shit like that.
    [/quote][quote author=Yi Sun-Sin link=topic=20024.msg570764#msg570764 date=1331404155]
    Yeah, I never heard of this being linked to any part of the Quran, or any hadith. I assumed it was more about “tradition” than religion.
    [/quote]

    Next time tell them "Islam has plenty of tribal traditions and Islam started from  tribal and there are 100s of millions of tribal brains in it" ., For that matter every religion has something tribal in them., unfortunately educated Muslims don't have BALLS to question baboons and get rid of these rules Islamic states and governments make based on stupid stuff in so called Islamic scriptures..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #4 - March 10, 2012, 09:22 PM

    Yeah, I never heard of this being linked to any part of the Quran, or any hadith. I assumed it was more about tradition than religion.

    It is. There used to be similar attitudes in some Christian societies too. Anyone who wants to change these laws should be pointing out that the Islamic texts don't actually stipulate this sort of response.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #5 - March 10, 2012, 09:29 PM

    Umm most "honour killings" happen against young girls that aren't married, even the most salafist of Islamists will agree that you cannot kill such a girl for her 'crime', the severest punishment for that is a lashing. Even when the punishment is death by whatever means Islamically speaking it can't be done by vigilantes, family or otherwise. It requires a ruling from a Sharia court.

    Anyone who says "honour killings" is Islamic need to cite Islamic texts that allow it.
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #6 - March 10, 2012, 10:32 PM

    Just checking, what planet, what year is this report from?

    How come a nation was allowed to promulgate a brand new constitution that does not meet UN standards from 1944, especially with the whole world involved?

    I thought Iraq had high standards of education.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #7 - March 11, 2012, 04:18 AM

    How does Honor Killing relate to Islam Huh??

    Whenever I mention Honor Killing to some Muslims they leap with arguments such as IT IS NOT ISLAMIC, it is tribal tradition in the middle east and shit like that.


    I'll be more apt to believe that when I hear that it's common in some other religion. The only other religion I could think of would be India, but that's not a common factor among Hindus just in certain villages and areas. Honor killings with Muslims can happen anywhere it seems, be it in a Western society or in some poor village. I think that they are right that's it not Islamic, because it's not mentioned specifically. However it seems the action can be justified very easily under Islam for the sake of purity, hence why it is associated with Islamic law.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #8 - March 11, 2012, 07:32 AM

    While Islam doesn't sanction it, Muslims cultures can facilitate it due to a lack of solid foundation for women's rights in part of the Islamic world, anyway, it's a super serious issue.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #9 - March 11, 2012, 10:59 AM

    Honor Killings are so freaking stupid, what is so honorable about killing someone because he did something you don't like Huh?

  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #10 - March 11, 2012, 12:14 PM

    even the most salafist of Islamists will agree that you cannot kill such a girl for her 'crime', the severest punishment for that is a lashing.

    Thank heaven for that.
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #11 - March 11, 2012, 01:42 PM

    Brothers strangle sister in Egyptian honour killing     says news

    Quote
    A 23-year old Egyptian woman was strangled to death by her brothers in what is being seen as an honour killing. According to Egyptian Arabic daily Al Wafd, the six brothers killed their only sister to protect the family honor after she was suspected of having relationships with many young men in a village in Kantara, Al Ismailia district. Police station received a tip-off from the 70-year old father of the victim, identified as AAY, a farmer, that his daughter identified as RA was missing.

    The police conducted an investigation and found the body of a woman on a farm in Al Salhya Al Jadeeda. The investigation and the forensic report confirmed that identity and led to her brothers’ arrests. The defendants confessed to committing the crime. They pointing out during the interrogation that they had pictures showing her in “compromising positions”.

    Fathers kill.. brothers kill.. uncles kill.. ...all the for the sake of honor.,

    HOW ABOUT KILLING YOURSELF BY JUMPING IN FRONT OF   TRAIN  and leave her alone to face that allah  doll for her honor??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #12 - March 11, 2012, 06:44 PM

    ^ ^

    that is disturbing I swear, killing ur own sister or daughter, how worse it can get.

  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #13 - March 11, 2012, 10:26 PM

    Yeah, I never heard of this being linked to any part of the Quran, or any hadith. I assumed it was more about “tradition” than religion.


    Yes honour killings are haraam. But Islam, with its ideas around the segregation of the sexes, marriage and the extreme taboos around sex etc. breeds and atmosphere and culture where honour crimes are tolerated and accepted. Sexual "crimes", especially for women, are seen as the worst thing you can do, and as such are dealt with harshly and people say "she was asking for it. she was a slag". 

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #14 - March 11, 2012, 10:29 PM

    Exactly

    That's why penal codes in many Muslim countries give much lighter sentences to honour killings. Because while the murder itself is haram, the 'modesty' crimes committed 'almost warrant' the murder.

    Other forms of honour killing (like Kurdish girls getting killed for dating outside the tribe) are less Islamically accepted.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #15 - March 11, 2012, 10:31 PM


    Its more that the breaking of traditional gender roles and freedoms is discouraged by aspects of Islam, which is required to fight against honour crimes, rather than explicit advocacy.

    You need freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, acceptance of an individual's right to choose their own partner and life path over and above that of family and community in order to fully take on the issues around honour crimes.

    The rigidity of Islam paralyses and inhibits the required culture and attributes and open transparent air needed to fight honour issues.

    Social problems are addressed by open cultures that discuss without inhibition (and without shame) the problems so they can be solved and tackled.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #16 - March 12, 2012, 12:54 AM

    Two honor killings hit Egypt’s Alexandria  says news on  26 February 2012




    Quote
    CAIRO: A double bill of honor killings have hit Egypt’s coastal city of Alexandria, where two women were murdered by a family member as punishment for their actions. Two women in Alexandria, Egypt’s second largest city on the Mediterranean coast, were killed by their brothers, both allegedly for preserving the family’s “honor.”

    The first murder happened in Ameriya village, where a mechanic killed his sister after hearing rumors about her. The second killing by an unemployed man in Borg al-Arab, who killed his married sister for allegedly fleeing her home with another man. Egyptian newspaper al-Badeel reported that the first woman, 24, was stabbed to death by her brother in the family’s home after he heard rumors about her behavior. The dead woman’s mother, who witnessed the killing, confessed to the police of her son’s crime, saying he committed it in their house.

    The police became involved after the young woman was taken a hospital, which reported the murder to the authorities. The man was captured and confessed to killing his sister, justifying it by commenting on “her bad morals.”

    The second woman, 22, was found dead on the Marsa Matrouh coastal road, with a noose around her neck, fully dressed and bleeding. Identifying the body and asking the family for information, the woman’s uncle confessed that her brother, an unemployed laborer, killed his married younger sister after he accused her of fleeing her home with a stranger. The judicial system in Egypt seems to always give weaker sentences to men accused of murdering a female family member, giving them the benefit of “preserving their honor.”

    .....................................................

    Quote
    CEWLA’s report also showed that the perpetrators of violence were males in 75 percent of the cases and women represented 25 percent. The perpetrators were the husbands (52 percent), the fathers (10 percent), brothers (10 percent), the mothers (four percent) the rest were the sons, relatives of the husband or of the wife, the step father or the step mother. The types of violence were murder (76 percent), attempt to murder (5 percent), battering (18 percent), kidnapping 2.5 percent and the rest were different types such as burning property, forcing women to sign checks and become guarantors of men, accusation of insanity, etc.

    The report indicated that causes of violence were honor crimes (42 percent), leaving the house without the husband’s approval (7.5 percent), wives asking for divorce (3 percent).



    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #17 - March 12, 2012, 05:29 PM

    Brutal honor-killing of an innocent girl by Village Muslim ROGUES in Kunar province Afghanistan



    Quote
    Nasreen,  was murdered by local strongmen on February 25, 2012 in Anchagal village, Naray district in Kunar province. The killing was over family disputes that were not made clear. Three years ago the same people shot her with an AK-47 which severely injured her but her brother, Nematullah, saved her  by taking her to a hospital in Islamabad, Pakistan.Ghani Gojar, Mohammadin, Safar and Haji Daeem are the powerful men in the village near Naray Rager Camp. Haji Daeem is a member of the local tribal council. These men previously killed an American who was on his way from Naray to Bareecote. They are very influential and supply heavy weapons to the Taliban.After Nasreen’s disappearance, the men threatened her father, Gul Amin, to bring her back so they could kill her, saying they would kill him instead if he didn’t find her.


    Her brother didn’t want her to leave Pakistan but she was forcibly brought back. Upon her return they tied her hands behind her back in the front of the whole village and pierced holes all over her body with an automatic machine gun. No one dared to help her while her brother sat worried in Islamabad, unaware of her death but expecting the worse. Now no one dares to report this heinous crime because they fear the powerful people of the district. Once these men were arrested and taken by security forces to Bagram Airbase prison but due to their friendship with the district police chief and other powerful people, they got released.This story is an everyday happening for women in all parts of Afghanistan. Today there is no justice for girls like Nasreen and thousand others who die helpless, or commit suicide to escape their ill fates. Women who seek justice and help from the police are arrested and jailed themselves for ‘moral crimes’. Most courts in Afghanistan are the local courts that are headed by extremist clerics, who pass harsh sentences of inhumane punishments like flogging and stoning to death.T...

    read it all at the link...

    Lives of so many Nasreen's have been taken by these RABID DOGS OF ISLAM through out its history..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws, say Iraqi women
     Reply #18 - March 12, 2012, 10:17 PM

    Honor killings with Muslims can happen anywhere it seems, be it in a Western society or in some poor village.

    Can you point out a case where it happened in a Western society by people of Western cultural background ? And by the way, there used to be this kind of idea of “honor” in western society too, mentality changed here, but I would not blame religion for honor killing. Or at least not directly.
  • Re: "Honor killings" require tougher laws....
     Reply #19 - March 25, 2012, 01:47 AM

    Two women axed to death says news



    Quote
    HYDERABAD: Two women were axed to death by a man in Village Gul Muhammad Jakhro of Rahuki district Hyderabad late Thursday night.  According to police, one Sumal was chopped by her husband Haji Khan Hajano when she returned home after attending a marriage ceremony at Tando Muhammad Khan and when Aliya Hajano. The accused also killed her sister who tried to rescue his wife.


    On receiving information, the police reached the village and arrested the accused Haji Khan Hajano along with the hatchet used in the murder of women.



    And another news on same day says Man kills daughter

    Quote
    Karachi: A 20-year-old married woman was murdered on Thursday allegedly by her father on what appeared to be a case of honour killing.  Saima, 20, wife of Imran, was axed to death by her father, Rafeeq, in her house in Rangarh Mohalla in Nusrat Bhutto Colony while she was taking a siesta. The suspect was later arrested. At the time of the murder, only Saima’s mother-in-law was at home while the deceased’s husband was at work.

     
    According to the police, Saima had eloped with Imran last year and then the two got married in court. Since Saima’s elopement, her father had been on the lookout for his daughter, and he killed her as soon as he managed to trace her. Ironically, the gory incident took place on a day when the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan had released a report on the incidents of honour killings in the country, saying that “943 women were killed in the name of honour...[in the country last year]”.Of those, 219 were killed allegedly by their kin be


    what honor?? you idiot that lady is nicely married to a guy and living happily.., you fucking sperm donor have no right to kill 20 year old lady..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • "Honor killings" require tougher laws....
     Reply #20 - September 29, 2015, 01:59 PM

    Story of 19 year old Lareeb Khan of Germany comes out after a year







    Quote
    A Pakistani father in Germany has confessed to strangling his 19-year-old daughter to death. Asadullah Khan, 51, strangled his daughter, Lareeb Khan, after he learnt of her relationship with a boy he didn’t approve of, according to Daily Mail.

    Confessing to the murder, a weeping Khan told court in Darmstadt, Germany he believed his daughter had brought ‘dishonour’ to the family by being in a relationship with a boy he did not approve of. He said he wanted Lareeb to have an arranged marriage as he and his wife had done.

    Asadullah Khan, 51 a German based Muslim man has confessed to strangling his 19 year old daughter, Lareeb with his bare hands after discovering the teen had been caught shoplifting condoms to have sex with her forbidden boyfriend.

    Quote
    After strangling their daughter, the father and his wife, Shazia, 41, both originally from Pakistan dressed their dead daughter a dental technician in her clothes.
     
    Wheeling her in a wheelchair from their high rise apartment to the family car, the family according to a report via the dailymail drove to a secluded embankment in their home city of Darmstadt before tipping their daughter’s corpse down it.


    Quote
    Questioned, Germany’s bildmag reports the father conceded murdering his daughter because she had brought ‘dishonor’ on the family with her love for a boy he didn’t approve of. Khan and his wife had been wed in an arranged marriage and he wanted the same for her.


    During court testimony, the man’s wife, Shazia, also charged with murder described how she was was a downtrodden woman, totally in the thrall of her husband, and unable to save her daughter.

    The court heard how the parents sent Lareeb’s sister Nida, 14, to a relative on the evening of the murder in January this year.

    Giving evidence against both her parents, the youngest daughter told that her mother was as strict as their father, often striking both her and her sister.

    Nida said: ‘My Mama was not suppressed, she could do what she wanted. She used to hit me with a stick.

    ‘We were never allowed to talk about her boyfriend. My father used to say my sister should be forcibly married in Pakistan.’

    Upon appearing at court on Friday, the girl’s mother held out her arms to her daughter with Nida refusing to acknowledge her mother.

    The court heard Nida is now in therapy and has nothing more to do with her parents.

    During ongoing court testimony, the mother said that on the night of the murder Lareeb had quarreled again with her father and hit him. He later crept into her room as she slept, knelt astride her and strangled her.

    Quote
    Read a statement as presented by Shazia’s lawyer: ‘I couldn’t stop him,’ ‘I have rheumatism and didn’t have the strength to fight him off. I wanted to scream, but I couldn’t.

    ‘Lareeb stayed away from the home for several nights in a row and stopped wearing the headscarf. One day we received a letter from the police saying she had been caught trying to steal condoms. ‘At this point it became clear that there was sexual contact. When I showed the letter to my husband he snapped.’
    Quote
    The father who speaks no German told through an interpreter that he ‘loved’ his daughter.

    Adding: ‘If I could do it all undone, I would do it.

    ‘My wife has just obeyed me.

    ‘I love my wife and my daughters.



     Huh! I didn't know "LOVE KILLS". The man love so much he kills his own daughter..wives.........well that is the story of 19 year old    Lareeb Khan   from Germany...so young so innocent and so vulnerable ..RIP

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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