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 Topic: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?

 (Read 2905 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     OP - April 24, 2012, 08:46 PM
    Of course due to freedom of speech everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, but does everyone's opinion deserve to be considered equally?

    This always bothers me when speaking to my father. The conversation will go something like follows:

    Dad: "The reason crime rates are higher is because people don't spank their kids as much."
    Me: "No dad, you are just blatantly wrong."
    Dad: "That's just your opinion -- I am entitled to mine as you are to yours, we should just respect each other's opinions."

    But the thing is, I don't think he is entitled for me to respect his opinion here, because he is making an empirical claim about something he knows nothing about, and not only that, a claim that can be factually proven wrong. Has the idea of tolerance and "respecting each other's opinions" gone too far, in that we are forced to respect people's opinions, no matter how ill-informed or factually incorrect?

    Of course there are certain things I think this statement is true for -- things like aesthetic tastes, opinions on other people, food preferences, etc.. But I think for a lot of things, people simply lack the basic background knowledge to form opinions worthy of respect* or consideration.

    (*I mean respect in the sense not that it is OK to ridicule someone or call them down for an opinion, but to disregard the opinion as something worthy of consideration or a valid opinion.) 

  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #1 - April 24, 2012, 09:25 PM
    Not all opinions are as rationally based or as grounded in reality as others, but I take every opinion seriously, and I take the 'stupid/wrong' ones (as of the example you gave) more seriously as they are indicative of the mindset of the individual or a group in society, or a society itself, or even humanity. The 'right' opinion is usually less interesting to me as it is based in fact and there's not much to discover beyond the fact itself, but the 'wrong' opinion could be based on psychology, past experience, common misconception, a sociological factor, a meme etc etc. That's why I give 'wrong/invalid' opinions the same, or more attention.

    I'm sorry if I answered the wrong question, or if my post is irrelevant.
    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #2 - April 24, 2012, 10:33 PM
    No that makes sense, and I agree it is interesting as an example of where one is coming from. I'm thinking of situations where someone hasn't bothered to look into something -- for instance, if someone had data they interpreted as being evidence that spanking helped crime rates, and someone else had data that demonstrated that it didn't, I would take both seriously. However if someone makes a statement on crime rates and spanking without any knowledge on the subject, I tend to think that their opinion shouldn't be taken seriously, say, as reason to re-instate spanking in schools.
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #3 - April 24, 2012, 11:00 PM
    Everyone should be permitted to express their opinion. But noone should be forced to respect any opinion.
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #4 - May 13, 2012, 04:17 AM
    Quote from: Tonyt on April 24, 2012, 11:00 PM
    Everyone should be permitted to express their opinion. But noone should be forced to respect any opinion.


    Yeah^

    Well to be honest, I think you can respectfully react to someone's opinion. Even if they're wrong, I don't like it when people are immediately 'YOURE A FUCKING IDIOT HAHAHAHAH', why not instead try and educate the person? In a mutually respectable manner, if they persist in their wrong opinion, then just leave them. Nothing comes of insulting others for cheap amusement. People are entitled to opinions, but I think common courtesy is lacking these days.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #5 - May 13, 2012, 06:00 AM
    Quote from: Stardust on May 13, 2012, 04:17 AM
    Yeah^

    Well to be honest, I think you can respectfully react to someone's opinion. Even if they're wrong, I don't like it when people are immediately 'YOURE A FUCKING IDIOT HAHAHAHAH', why not instead try and educate the person? In a mutually respectable manner, if they persist in their wrong opinion, then just leave them. Nothing comes of insulting others for cheap amusement. People are entitled to opinions, but I think common courtesy is lacking these days.

    People have very little patience now a days for debates and discussions and those highlighted words are one of the reason why many people with Islamic background fear to join and debate in forums like CEMB and ffi.  CEMB is worse than ffi in that respect.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #6 - May 13, 2012, 06:25 AM
    Quote from: Stardust on May 13, 2012, 04:17 AM
    Well to be honest, I think you can respectfully react to someone's opinion. Even if they're wrong, I don't like it when people are immediately 'YOURE A FUCKING IDIOT HAHAHAHAH', why not instead try and educate the person?

    I agree that's the best way to start, but past a certain point "You're a fucking idiot" becomes a justifiable response. grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #7 - May 13, 2012, 06:29 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on May 13, 2012, 06:25 AM
    I agree that's the best way to start, but past a certain point "You're a fucking idiot" becomes a justifiable response. grin12


    Yeah, but that point seems to be reached too quickly by a lot of people. Like yeezevee said, lack of patience.

    Over certain trivial matters too.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #8 - May 13, 2012, 06:36 AM
    That's because they're fucking idiots. dance
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #9 - May 13, 2012, 06:47 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on May 13, 2012, 06:36 AM
    That's because they're fucking idiots. dance

    +1
    Quote
    Mockery of religion is one of the most essential things... one of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority.
    --Christopher Hitchens

  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #10 - May 13, 2012, 06:51 AM
    What I meant was that anyone who goes straight to calling others idiots is themselves being idiotic. Always best to make some attempt to talk sense first. Sort of like the legal presumption of innocence. Assume people are reasonable until they prove themselves to be fucking idiots.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #11 - May 13, 2012, 06:56 AM
    Quote from: -Tmp- on May 13, 2012, 06:47 AM
    +1

    Quote
    Mockery of religion is one of the most essential things... one of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority.
    --Christopher Hitchens




    That's the thing, attacking religion is one thing, attacking the person personally, calling them an idiot etc is another...The latter should be refrained from as much as possible by having a good level of patience and instead trying to teach the person. If it's a lost cause, then fair enough move on from them, if they're personally attacking you - that's fair game to hit back. IMO.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #12 - May 13, 2012, 07:02 AM
    Quote from: Stardust on May 13, 2012, 06:56 AM


    That's the thing, attacking religion is one thing, attacking the person personally, calling them an idiot etc is another...The latter should be refrained from as much as possible by having a good level of patience and instead trying to teach the person. If it's a lost cause, then fair enough move on from them, if they're personally attacking you - that's fair game to hit back. IMO.

    Oh I agree with that, and as osmanthus said at some point saying "you're a fucking idiot" is a justifiable response (although I wouldn't do that myself because I don't really want to wast time on these people).
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #13 - May 13, 2012, 08:13 AM
    Quote from: Sprout on April 24, 2012, 09:25 PM
    Not all opinions are as rationally based or as grounded in reality as others, but I take every opinion seriously, and I take the 'stupid/wrong' ones (as of the example you gave) more seriously as they are indicative of the mindset of the individual or a group in society, or a society itself, or even humanity. The 'right' opinion is usually less interesting to me as it is based in fact and there's not much to discover beyond the fact itself, but the 'wrong' opinion could be based on psychology, past experience, common misconception, a sociological factor, a meme etc etc. That's why I give 'wrong/invalid' opinions the same, or more attention.


    Yeah, the "wrong" opinion are more interesting because it can help you understand that person's way of thinking and POVs which can help you determine whether you can convince them how wrong they are, or not.

    However there is a certain point indeed where you have to call that person an IDIOT provided that person is very stubborn and arrogant like Clawed.

    IRL, i hardly argue mostly because of the fallacies such as strawman arguments instead i try to understand why they stated that particular opinion like my neighbour who thinks that women shouldnt be working because he believes they are naturally born to be mothers and housewives plus being career woman means "whoring".  Now i cant engage myself in this argument because no matter what, at the end the argument will lead to religion which would be more frustrating. Just like tonyt said

    "Everyone should be permitted to express their opinion. But noone should be forced to respect any opinion".


    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #14 - May 13, 2012, 08:14 AM
    What zoomi is trying to say is that only people who have some sort of formal training in philosophy are entitled to an opinion. cool2
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #15 - May 13, 2012, 08:17 AM
    popcorn
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #16 - May 13, 2012, 08:23 AM
    ^WE are the ones that gets to eat the pop corn and watch, while YOU are supposed to provoke them with your wit that will make us laugh Tongue
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #17 - May 13, 2012, 10:44 AM
    Quote from: Abood on May 13, 2012, 08:14 AM
    What zoomi is trying to say is that only people who have some sort of formal training in philosophy are entitled to an opinion. cool2


    So with other words zoomi is asking for "elitism" according to you? That is not how i understood her post. I think in a serious dialogue or debate all actors should try to be formal in their presentation of arguments. And it should be logically formulated and well-thought. That doesn't mean that you should have a degree in philosophy or science for that sake - depends what the topic is. But that its necessarily to have a good debate if the actors at least try to act formal. Something else which I also miss in many debates (in general - both on the internet and in real life) is that people are more humble particularly if its a topic or a field they don't have so much knowledge on.

    When that is said. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #18 - May 13, 2012, 10:51 AM
    Even if one has a formal training, one should be humble otherwise they may come across as obnoxious.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #19 - May 13, 2012, 02:53 PM
    Trolling you guys is too easy. Cheesy
  • Re: Is everyone entitled to an opinion?
     Reply #20 - May 13, 2012, 07:34 PM
    Well played Afro
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
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