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 Topic: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi

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  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #60 - February 22, 2012, 10:02 PM
    I think under most definitions of terrorism, terrorists usually are also part of a network or organisation that have a political goal or both, not just whether they deliberately terget civilians or view them as 'collateral'.

    Also many terrorist organisations usually have some kind of portion of the population that are sympathetic and helpful (funding, arms etc) to the cause they hold, and usually a poltical wing or public mouthpiece. A lone wolf such as McVeigh, even though he may have had a cause, was not supported or abbetted by any public sympathisers as far as I am aware, and I dont think he recieved any kind of public support. I can't imagine the White House would ever have entered into a Peace Agreement or Talks, Reconciliation or a Negotiated Settlement with McVeigh.

    I agree its difficult to arrive at a catch-all definition or formula to test for terrorist vs just a nutter, but I suggest maybe those factors are a part of it.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #61 - February 22, 2012, 10:27 PM
    Quote from: Raccoon Rapist on February 22, 2012, 08:11 AM
    Given his chosen target, how would you have advised him to avoid civilian casualties while still destroying the Federal building and killing the ATF agents in it?

    Are the ATF agents not civilians ?
    (Real question, I don't know much about the different US organizations)
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #62 - February 22, 2012, 10:30 PM
    Well they aren't military personnel, but strictly speaking they aren't civilians either. Neither are cops. Both are agents of the state, like the military.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #63 - February 22, 2012, 10:57 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 22, 2012, 03:01 PM
    If someone invaded your country and you wanted to take up arms to defend it, would you suddenly decide against doing so because there are xenophobic, racist bigots defending your country too? I'd fight alongside them even though I'd hate everything they stand for.

    Question: why are the only Afghans who matter the ones who are acting as agents of the Pakistani ISI? Just curious.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #64 - February 23, 2012, 12:38 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 22, 2012, 10:30 PM
    Well they aren't military personnel, but strictly speaking they aren't civilians either. Neither are cops. Both are agents of the state, like the military.

    Are every agent of the state not considered civilians ? Even firemen, teachers, mailmens, etc ?
    Or is it just those that are law enforcement personnel ?
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #65 - February 23, 2012, 12:41 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 22, 2012, 08:56 PM
    Try being accurate when describing a situation. Ranting about colonisation is far from accurate.


    How would you describe it?

    Quote from: osmanthus on February 22, 2012, 10:57 PM
    Question: why are the only Afghans who matter the ones who are acting as agents of the Pakistani ISI? Just curious.


    So Afghans wanting freedom from occupation and independence are agents of the ISI?  Roll Eyes lulz

    The war isn't goodies vs baddies, its a continuation of the civil war with someone (NATO) intervening. Why is that the biggest ethnic group in the country have hardly any representation in the security forces? So much so, that you have non-pashtun dari speakers (once foot soldiers of the Northern Alliance) policing the pashtun dominated south--the very people they fought! Hence the human rights abuses, corruption and lack of trust of the security forces. Now what would these people do other than back the people they're most closest to ie the Taliban? Like my uncle always reminds me these people are some of the poorest people in the world, yet they don't provide info about the Taliban for the thousands of dollars they'd get in reward money....ever wonder why?  whistling2

    Regarding the ISI thing.......you should become a spokesperson for NATO, you seem to have adapted their traits--blame Pakistan for your own pathetic failures. Pakistan closes the border like a good "ally" thus causing civil war in their own country, killing thousands of their own people, army bases, ISI HQ etc. are all attacked yet they manage to kill and capture more militants than NATO, but yeah they back the Taliban   Roll Eyes There are some people amongst the security forces that do sympathise with them but its a minority. Face reality, accept defeat.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #66 - February 23, 2012, 12:45 AM
    Quote from: Yi Sun-Sin on February 23, 2012, 12:38 AM
    Are every agent of the state not considered civilians ? Even firemen, teachers, mailmens, etc ?
    Or is it just those that are law enforcement personnel ?

    Well I know that cops don't consider themselves civilians, or at least not when they're on duty. Firemen, teachers and the like aren't usually enforcing anything, so I suppose "non-civilian" is going to boil down to "one of the state's enforcers", but then that would include people like judges, etc. Meh. Roll Eyes
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #67 - February 23, 2012, 12:52 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 12:41 AM
    How would you describe it?

    I'd describe it as trying to extricate themselves from shitfight without letting the place disintegrate immediately.


    Quote
    So Afghans wanting freedom from occupation and independence are agents of the ISI?  Roll Eyes lulz

    What I mean is, why do you see the Taliban as worthy of your support when you apparently refuse to even recognise other Afghans who are against them? What is so wonderful about the Taliban that they deserve your sympathies and others don't?

    The bit about the ISI was a dig at you. Knew you'd like it, but you are on record as defending Pakistan's actions relating to Afghanistan. You may have changed your mind now, but back then you seemed to think it was fine for Pakistan to intervene in Afghanistan, but not fine for anyone else.


    Quote
    The war isn't goodies vs baddies, its a continuation of the civil war with someone (NATO) intervening. Why is that the biggest ethnic group in the country have hardly any representation in the security forces? So much so, that you have non-pashtun dari speakers (once foot soldiers of the Northern Alliance) policing the pashtun dominated south--the very people they fought! Hence the human rights abuses, corruption and lack of trust of the security forces. Now what would these people do other than back the people they're most closest to ie the Taliban? Like my uncle always reminds me these people are some of the poorest people in the world, yet they don't provide info about the Taliban for the thousands of dollars they'd get in reward money....ever wonder why?  whistling2

    Yup. The problem with Afghanistan is that it's not really a country. It's a collection of tribes who can't stand each other, and have been arbitrarily wrapped up in a border drawn by an extinct empire.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #68 - February 23, 2012, 12:53 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 12:41 AM
    Regarding the ISI thing.......you should become a spokesperson for NATO, you seem to have adapted their traits--blame Pakistan for your own pathetic failures. Pakistan closes the border like a good "ally" thus causing civil war in their own country, killing thousands of their own people, army bases, ISI HQ etc. are all attacked yet they manage to kill and capture more militants than NATO, but yeah they back the Taliban   Roll Eyes There are some people amongst the security forces that do sympathise with them but its a minority. Face reality, accept defeat.

    Pakistan only started doing things like that quite recently, after very heavy pressure was applied.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #69 - February 23, 2012, 01:02 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 12:41 AM
    The war isn't goodies vs baddies, its a continuation of the civil war with someone (NATO) intervening. Why is that the biggest ethnic group in the country have hardly any representation in the security forces? So much so, that you have non-pashtun dari speakers (once foot soldiers of the Northern Alliance) policing the pashtun dominated south--the very people they fought! Hence the human rights abuses, corruption and lack of trust of the security forces. Now what would these people do other than back the people they're most closest to ie the Taliban?

    I never heard about that before. That's interesting. It is the very first time I hear about an ethnic conflict within Afghani.
    Do you have links on article about that, so I can learn more about it ?
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 12:45 AM
    Well I know that cops don't consider themselves civilians, or at least not when they're on duty. Firemen, teachers and the like aren't usually enforcing anything, so I suppose "non-civilian" is going to boil down to "one of the state's enforcers", but then that would include people like judges, etc. Meh. Roll Eyes

    Not that easy to define precisely, it seems Wink. However, I used to thing about the ATF as a “non-fighting” force, but it seems they played quite a big part in the Waco siege.
    I seriously lack knowledge in US and UK history.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #70 - February 23, 2012, 01:04 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 12:52 AM
    I'd describe it as trying to extricate themselves from shitfight without letting the place disintegrate immediately.



    Don't you think there are other interests at hand? Like having a military presence on the border of China, gas pipelines and mineral resources?
     
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 12:52 AM
    What I mean is, why do you see the Taliban as worthy of your support when you apparently refuse to even recognise other Afghans who are against them? What is so wonderful about the Taliban that they deserve your sympathies and others don't?


    I support any Afghan who wants an independent country. I don't care if its an Islamist militant, feminists, human rights activists or politicians. Its just that the Taliban happen to be the biggest opposition and I can't ignore my family's links to them as much as I try to. I don't care about the Taliban ideology or their leadership at all, I don't want an "Islamic Emirate" in Afghanistan or anywhere else.


    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 12:52 AM
    The bit about the ISI was a dig at you. Knew you'd like it, but you are on record as defending Pakistan's actions relating to Afghanistan. You may have changed your mind now, but back then you seemed to think it was fine for Pakistan to intervene in Afghanistan, but not fine for anyone else.


    Yes I did and only because Pakistan's interests were somewhat similar to what the majority want, ie pashtun rule. I don't blindly support the pk military as much as I used to.

    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 12:52 AM
    Yup. The problem with Afghanistan is that it's not really a country. It's a collection of tribes who can't stand each other, and have been arbitrarily wrapped up in a border drawn by an extinct empire.


    The same can be said for Pakistan and every other "third world country" carved out. The idea of a nation state is stupid.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #71 - February 23, 2012, 01:12 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJXHM4_B-CY

    Hmm Russians are happy on what is happening in Afghanistan ......... Zaid Hamid and Russians should together through Americans out of Af/Pak area .. I say Americans should leave the place to day.... So That Islamic heroes get together and fight Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia Israel., They just need some 50 of those WMDs from Pakistan., It seems Russians and Zaid Hamid don't know that  America is far away from Pakistan.,  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #72 - February 23, 2012, 01:21 AM
    Quote
    Don't you think there are other interests at hand? Like having a military presence on the border of China, gas pipelines and mineral resources?


    No, Aphrodite.  You have to be on a flight of fantasy to believe that Afghanistan has any natural resources worth the pain in the fucking arse it currently is.  As for the military border with China, please.  This is not the 1980s, who gives a shit about military threats from China?  Economic threats, yes - but keeping a standing army in Afghanistan at huge expense to the US govt is hardly helping the west in that competition.

    Quote
    I support any Afghan who wants an independent country.


    So do I.

    Quote
    I don't care if its an Islamist militant, feminists, human rights activists or politicians.


    Nor do I, but I am realistic enough to know which of the above groups are likely to take over an independent Afghanistan.  Hint- it won't be feminists or human rights activists.  

    Quote
    Its just that the Taliban happen to be the biggest opposition and I can't ignore my family's links to them as much as I try to.


    So you support the Taliban because you have family links to their tribe, and they are the biggest opposition to the current Afghan government?  What about the opposition parties in Afghanistan, have you ever considered supporting them?  


    Quote
    The idea of a nation state is stupid.


    Then why do you want an independent Afghanistan?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #73 - February 23, 2012, 01:22 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 01:04 AM
    Don't you think there are other interests at hand? Like having a military presence on the border of China, gas pipelines and mineral resources?

    Honestly, I don't think they are significant enough to be worth the hassle, so I doubt they enter into the calculations. Sure, Bush may have thought like that, but Bush was a moron. There aren't many people that moronic.

    I think the problem basically goes like this: 9/11 and shit ==> major freakout (more than it warranted, frankly) ==> oh fuck we're in afghanistan (nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there) ==> oh bugger, how do we get out again without it being worse than before?

    The last bit is the tricky bit, if you are stupid enough to want a better country out of it. If you don't give a shit and think they can all go to hell, getting out is a lot easier. Do bear in mind that there has been a lot of good work done in Afghanistan too. It's just that the political situation is still a disaster.

    Shouldn't be surprising, because historically the only time Afghans stop fighting each other is when they have someone else to fight.

     
    Quote
    I support any Afghan who wants an independent country. I don't care if its an Islamist militant, feminists, human rights activists or politicians. Its just that the Taliban happen to be the biggest opposition and I can't ignore my family's links to them as much as I try to. I don't care about the Taliban ideology or their leadership at all, I don't want an "Islamic Emirate" in Afghanistan or anywhere else.

    I'm fine with Afghans wanting an independent country. The problem is getting them to want the same bloody country. I know the Taliban are the biggest opposition, but if they were in power then, just like last time they were in power, Afghan feminists and human rights activists would be fucked. You'd be having public executions in the stadiums again.

    I realise that realistically the Taliban have to be included in any settlement within Afghanistan. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head up their arse. What's needed though (if you want to see the place not being self-destructive) is for the Taliban to accept that Pashtun representation does not entail riding roughshod over any fucker who has a different opinion.

    And yes, I know the other tribes are just as bad. Roll Eyes


    Quote
    The same can be said for Pakistan and every other "third world country" carved out. The idea of a nation state is stupid.

    If the idea of a nation state is stupid (which I'm inclined to agree with) does this mean the idea of non-interference and national sovereignty is equally stupid?

    This is something I sometimes wonder about myself.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #74 - February 23, 2012, 01:24 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 01:04 AM
    Don't you think there are other interests at hand? Like having a military presence on the border of China, gas pipelines and mineral resources?

    Aphrodite  your posts are incoherent ., what gas resources are you talking?? America need gas from Afghanistan??   Where do they have gas??  America need minerals from Afghanistan??


     What minerals are you talking .. How many trillion dollars mineral wealth  Afghanistan has?? .., From the amount of money Americans spent on that war.. for  STUPID RATS .. they could have got the minerals from moon..

    Quote
    I support any Afghan who wants an independent country. I don't care if its an Islamist militant, feminists, human rights activists or politicians. Its just that the Taliban happen to be the biggest opposition and I can't ignore my family's links to them as much as I try to. I don't care about the Taliban ideology or their leadership at all, I don't want an "Islamic Emirate" in Afghanistan or anywhere else.

    You don't want what?? but that is exactly what your beloved TALIBAN want..

    Quote
    Yes I did and only because Pakistan's interests were somewhat similar to what the majority want, ie pashtun rule. I don't blindly support the pk military as much as I used to.

    What??  .. who do you think Afghanistan is ruled by?? It is always ruled by Pashtuns.. all the time..  Where did Karazai come from??

    Quote
    The same can be said for Pakistan and every other "third world country" carved out. The idea of a nation state is stupid.

    again that is not a coherent statement Aphrodite.,  The problem is bigger now., Thanks to the depth policy of Land of pure..   Now Pashtuns  from this side of border are taking AK47s against fools in land of pure..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #75 - February 23, 2012, 01:31 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 01:04 AM
    The same can be said for Pakistan and every other "third world country" carved out. The idea of a nation state is stupid.

    So, you mean that almost every third world country is not a nation state, and then you say that the idea of a nation state is stupid ? Nation states seems to work out better than non-nation states (except for Singapore, of course).
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #76 - February 23, 2012, 04:39 AM
    Quote from: billy on February 22, 2012, 07:17 PM
    The source is pretty much the definitive, universally accepted chronicle of every death of the Northern Ireland conflict, detailing each killing, from every side, Republican and Unionist, giving a biography of each victim, and done neutrally.

    http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/book/index.html

    Unionist and Republican groups both carried out atrocities as did the British army on occasion.

    The most generous thing you can say for the para-military groups of Ulster is that they were culpable for the deaths of innocents through general indifference and a calculus of 'acceptable cost' in their strategy.


    Thanks for the link, billy...much appreciated. Not sure where the "over 600 civilians" number comes from though. Didn't bother to try figuring it out though, because if you exclude politicians, informants, and military contractors (because those folks are gonna be targets in ANY conflict of this type), then my count comes to 389. Hefty number to be sure, and, in hindsight, likely an unacceptable cost. However, out of a total of 2,000? That's a 20% civilian death rate. This left me wondering how other conflicts/forces stack up, so I'm gonna look that shit up (if my google-fu and motivation is strong enough) and get back to ya. However, my gut guess here is that's lower than the civilian death rate at the hands of NATO forces in Afghanistan, US forces in Iraq, the major parties to the Vietnam War (on both sides), and both sides of the Algerian War of Independence. But like I said that's just a guess-- I could well be wrong on that.

    But I guess my general point is that I expect that there will be significant civilian casualties in an insurgency or civil war, os's point (which I actually partially agree with) is what defines a "terrorist" (for him, and in most cases for me as well) are those who regularly and intentionally target civilians en masse, and on that definition, I don't think the IRA stacks up.

    Interestingly enough though, if you look at the Loyalists, they have about a 70% civilian kill rate. Kinda takes the wind out of the sails of the argument I often hear that the Loyalist and Republican paramilitaries were as bad as each other-- the numbers would indicate they clearly weren't. Now the Loyalists with a 70% civilian kill rate seem like they're much more fit for os's definition of terrorists than the IRA are. And the British forces clock in with a 51% civilian kill rate. With the IRA only at 20% (or even if it is 600, it would be 30%), you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy the whole "British forces acted with restraint, the IRA were terrorists, and both Loyalist and Republican groups were equally awful" narrative. The numbers you provided simply don't back it up.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #77 - February 23, 2012, 07:16 AM
    Raccoon  your nick is enough you don't need this
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #78 - February 23, 2012, 09:35 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 23, 2012, 01:12 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJXHM4_B-CY

    Hmm Russians are happy on what is happening in Afghanistan ......... Zaid Hamid and Russians should together through Americans out of Af/Pak area .. I say Americans should leave the place to day.... So That Islamic heroes get together and fight Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia Israel., They just need some 50 of those WMDs from Pakistan., It seems Russians and Zaid Hamid don't know that  America is far away from Pakistan.,  



    You know whats funny, this very same guy claims to have been killign russians soldiers during that stupid soviet jihad
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #79 - February 23, 2012, 02:17 PM
    Quote from: Raccoon Rapist on February 23, 2012, 04:39 AM
    But I guess my general point is that I expect that there will be significant civilian casualties in an insurgency or civil war, os's point (which I actually partially agree with) is what defines a "terrorist" (for him, and in most cases for me as well) are those who regularly and intentionally target civilians en masse, and on that definition, I don't think the IRA stacks up.


    Everyone has their own biases and interpretations. Personally speaking, I have no quibble with the  IRA being described as having engaged in terrorist acts. But its not a viewpoint I'd spend time persuading anyone not inclined to see them like that to see it like that if they don't want to.

    All I will say, is thank god the horror of the troubles are over now (bar occasional dissident acts by rogue and isolated groups) - Northern Ireland's conflict resolution is a genuine ray of light in the bleak world of hateful sectarian conflicts.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #80 - February 23, 2012, 03:04 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 01:22 AM
    Honestly, I don't think they are significant enough to be worth the hassle, so I doubt they enter into the calculations. Sure, Bush may have thought like that, but Bush was a moron. There aren't many people that moronic.


    But there are reports of the US wanting and negotiating for permanent bases--that would be colonisation.

    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 01:22 AM
    I'm fine with Afghans wanting an independent country. The problem is getting them to want the same bloody country. I know the Taliban are the biggest opposition, but if they were in power then, just like last time they were in power, Afghan feminists and human rights activists would be fucked. You'd be having public executions in the stadiums again.

    I realise that realistically the Taliban have to be included in any settlement within Afghanistan. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head up their arse. What's needed though (if you want to see the place not being self-destructive) is for the Taliban to accept that Pashtun representation does not entail riding roughshod over any fucker who has a different opinion.


    Maybe it will be, maybe it won't, judging from their recent transformation they seem to have modernised, like they use twitter and have their own site (setup and maintained by the ISI?  Tongue ) and aren't as intolerant as they were. In recent statements they have called for all Afghans to help rebuild their country, condemned the bombing of shias done by Pakistani terrorists and even sent a message of support to the cricket team (cricket was once haram) before their match against Pakistan. I guess its a case of being gullible/hopeful that their rhetoric is sincere....

    Quote from: osmanthus on February 23, 2012, 01:22 AM
    If the idea of a nation state is stupid (which I'm inclined to agree with) does this mean the idea of non-interference and national sovereignty is equally stupid?

    This is something I sometimes wonder about myself.


    IMO, it depends on who intervenes, for what reasons and whether the intervention will do more good than bad.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #81 - February 23, 2012, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: Yi Sun-Sin on February 23, 2012, 01:02 AM
    I never heard about that before. That's interesting. It is the very first time I hear about an ethnic conflict within Afghani.
    Do you have links on article about that, so I can learn more about it ?


    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/03/civil_war_certa/

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KL01Df02.html

    Quote from: Yi Sun-Sin on February 23, 2012, 01:31 AM
    So, you mean that almost every third world country is not a nation state, and then you say that the idea of a nation state is stupid ? Nation states seems to work out better than non-nation states (except for Singapore, of course).


    I mean the idea of a nation state was imposed on them when it really shouldn't have been hence the countless wars in once colonised regions.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #82 - February 23, 2012, 03:13 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 03:04 PM
    But there are reports of the US wanting and negotiating for permanent bases--that would be colonisation.

    Maybe it will be, maybe it won't, judging from their recent transformation they seem to have modernised, like they use twitter and have their own site (setup and maintained by the ISI?  Tongue ) and aren't as intolerant as they were. In recent statements they have called for all Afghans to help rebuild their country, condemned the bombing of shias done by Pakistani terrorists and even sent a message of support to the cricket team (cricket was once haram) before their match against Pakistan. I guess its a case of being gullible/hopeful that their rhetoric is sincere....

    IMO, it depends on who intervenes, for what reasons and whether the intervention will do more good than bad.


    It's not quite my place but do you think that perhaps your familial 'links' to the Taliban may skew your view on them? It seems like a natural action, and I can understand that people 'demonize' the Taliban-but it isn't just pink and rosy, they've committed many crimes and need to be held accountable for their recent actions before they can be considered legitimate.
    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #83 - February 23, 2012, 03:45 PM
    Quote from:  Aphrodite to yeezevee    on February 22, 2012, 02:52 PM



    Umm no. Her husband cut her nose and ears off in 2007. Her neighbours took her to hospital. Nothing to do with the Taliban--accept it.

    http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/08/29/is-time-s-aisha-story-fake.html
     

    Talks to me about that FAKE link/ fake story Aphrodite., do you think there is something wrong with your opinion on that " Taliban is NOTHING to do with cutting noses and ears of women folk"  in that link??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #84 - February 23, 2012, 04:07 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaKwqG2SQNo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPvL_OL1Sls


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--zANS5PjAg
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #85 - February 23, 2012, 04:13 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkBWlvfdMxw
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #86 - February 23, 2012, 04:15 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 03:06 PM
    I mean the idea of a nation state was imposed on them when it really shouldn't have been hence the countless wars in once colonised regions.

    Well, for me, “nation state” means having one state for each people, and that's just the opposite of what was imposed on them. What do you think would be better : to manage to get a state with all the different groups cohabiting in peace, or to split Afghanistan into several countries ? Or maybe even another solution ?

    Thanks for the links, by the way. I don't know if people are more informed about that issue in the Anglo-Saxon media, but I never even heard of that “Eikenberry rule” before.
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #87 - February 23, 2012, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 03:04 PM
    But there are reports of the US wanting and negotiating for permanent bases--that would be colonisation.


     Cheesy

    oh dear... tell me aphrodite..  Of all the permanent US bases around the world,
    WHERE have they colonized any country?  
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #88 - February 23, 2012, 05:08 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4k5o5n0sfY


    off course that is from my good friend Abu Abdullah Al-Britani
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Americans .. Go burn your women but dammit stop burning Quran.. :finmad: :fi
     Reply #89 - February 23, 2012, 08:17 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on February 23, 2012, 03:04 PM
    But there are reports of the US wanting and negotiating for permanent bases--that would be colonisation.

    No mate. Get a dictionary and do some more research.

    Colonisation is not wanting and negotiating for a few places to plonk your shit. That is something you request of the incumbent government and negotiate with them, like any other venture in their country.

    Colonisation is (among other things) imposing your own government over the whole damned country, and not allowing the people of that country to vote in their own bloody government.

    So, by claiming the US/NATO wants to colonise Afghanistan you are engaging in inaccurate and highly inflammatory rhetoric, given the history of the region. Not only that, but earlier in the thread you wanted to phrase the situation in racist terms ("filthy brown people", etc). It sounds to me like someone wants to whip a nice little rahowa*. I can see that going well for the country. Tongue

    I suggest you be more discerning about whose rhetoric you take on board without analysis. Wink

    Oh and on the subject of Pashtun representation, there have been Pashtun political parties in Afghanistan recently. It's just the Taliban itself which is currently banned from parliament. There is nothing stopping Pashtuns from having political representation if they can organise it.

    *rahowa is a white supremacist acronym for "racial holy war".


    Quote
    Maybe it will be, maybe it won't, judging from their recent transformation they seem to have modernised, like they use twitter and have their own site (setup and maintained by the ISI?  Tongue )

    Hey, if you can see white supremacist conspiracies everywhere, I can see ISI conspiracies everywhere. Cheesy


    Quote
    and aren't as intolerant as they were.

    Excuse me? This is the same group that, very recently, only agreed to stop bombing schools if the curriculum was changed to suit exactly what they wanted.

    Do you think a group that reserves the right to bomb schools if they don't like the curriculum is tolerant? Would you call any group other than the Taliban "tolerant' if they had the same policy?


    Quote
    In recent statements they have called for all Afghans to help rebuild their country, condemned the bombing of shias done by Pakistani terrorists and even sent a message of support to the cricket team (cricket was once haram) before their match against Pakistan. I guess its a case of being gullible/hopeful that their rhetoric is sincere....

    Fair enough on hopeful. Would you bet the lives of young Afghan women on it though? Because they have to bet their lives on it. Think about that, please. How would you explain your position to an Afghan woman your age who wants a better life?


    Quote
    IMO, it depends on who intervenes, for what reasons and whether the intervention will do more good than bad.

    I would agree with that, except for the bolded part. Why would who be an important factor? Shouldn't the reasons and results be the important things?

    Next question: do you think it is ever even theoretically possible for western forces to do any sort of good, or do they always have horns and tails? grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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