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Theme Changer

 Topic: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi

 (Read 8430 times)
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  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #30 - February 14, 2012, 10:41 PM

    I get more than just a faint whiff of ambition above all else from her utterances.


    I'd say she reached her level getting that lady released from Sudan for calling her teddy bear Mohammad. She showed good personable qualities there. But she's been overpromoted by far and I hate to use the word 'tokenism' but I fear its true.

    As some people have observed as chairman of the Conservative party she isn't doing very well in keeping membership numbers from falling, getting their message out there, revifying the grassroots, being the Tory's hype (wo)man.

    A perusal of opinions suggests that her ridiculous hyperbole and overstatement has aroused people in opposition. We are essentially a secular by nature society now, by default. This really is not an issue that matters to people, and she's alienating folks with this berating tone. Her contentions simply don't fly with the man and woman on the Clapham omnibus, to whom she looks a little preposterous.

    Reasserting the primacy of religion in our society, and making ridiculous caricatures of secularism (militant indeed! comparing this with totalitarian states ffs!) no doubt is a bee in her bonnet, but it isn't in the British peoples. The secular settlement, with at the most a benign and laissez faire Christianity which is chilled out and liberal and non intrusive, on the periphery of public life, is taken for granted. There's more important things to worry about and discuss. Quite simply she's out of time with the times.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #31 - February 15, 2012, 02:26 AM

    Yeah! Watch it! Its the militant secularists and they got their DEADLY weapon with them: R E A S O N!

     grin12

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #32 - February 15, 2012, 02:47 AM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01c984j/Newsnight_14_02_2012/

    Debate on this very subject on Newsnight.

    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #33 - February 15, 2012, 09:53 AM

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9082059/For-once-Richard-Dawkins-is-lost-for-words.html

    Another article that quotes the 'militant secularisation' one. This is getting terribly ridiculous now and I don't even know where to start.

    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #34 - February 15, 2012, 10:29 AM

    LoL @ Stephen Pollard ^^^


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #35 - February 15, 2012, 10:43 AM


    'Arrogance' is the new buzz word for the anti-secularists now. Dawkins is arrogant, atheism is arrogant, secularism is arrogant.

    The arrogance of the certainties of religions, in particular prosletysing religions, the arrogance of the certainties that they assert, the arrogance with which they hate and demonise non believers, the arrogance of their truth claims, the arrogance of their literalisms, the arrogance of their greed for influence and power, the arrogance of their treatment of apostates (yes this applies more to Islam than Christianity), the arrogance of their lack of introspection, the arrogance of their treatment of women.........the list is endless.

    Yes of course this is their projection of their qualities onto those who point out the naked emperor of their claims, but its indicative of their arrogance that they seek arrogance where there is doubt, scepticism and humility.

    Note how parts of the right and left congregate here together in their reaction to the 'arrogance' of secularism and atheism - one for old Christian ascendancy reasons, the other for new skool 'multiculturalism means deferring to Islam' reasons.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #36 - February 15, 2012, 10:44 AM

    Quote
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9082059/For-once-Richard-Dawkins-is-lost-for-words.html

    Another article that quotes the 'militant secularisation' one. This is getting terribly ridiculous now and I don't even know where to start.

    LoL @ Stephen Pollard ^^^




    Never trust anything that is written by an UNCIRCUMCISED JEW OR  UNCIRCUMCISED MUSLIM ., They are seeking for attention and  make a quick buck through yellow journalism in support of religions..  They are smart enough to realize , in the present days  bashing Dawkins will get them some publicity

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #37 - February 15, 2012, 12:10 PM

    Hmm   I  didn't know about this ., peer..baroness



    yap talk about militant secularism in England ., To see militants,  England is not that good place, may be in future.,  but she should go to her 2nd husband home town..  or may  be this guy Shaykh Abu-Ishaq al-Huwayni have right solution  of generating militants., She should join his group.. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1DNzSJ8mVo

    How about London moving her to Saudi Arabia and exchanging her with Hamza Kashgari,  She can become peer Baroness in Saudi Arabia and   Hamza Kashgari could become a simple citizen or a news reporter in London??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #38 - February 15, 2012, 12:41 PM

    'Arrogance' is the new buzz word for the anti-secularists now. Dawkins is arrogant, atheism is arrogant, secularism is arrogant.

    The arrogance of the certainties of religions, in particular prosletysing religions, the arrogance of the certainties that they assert, the arrogance with which they hate and demonise non believers, the arrogance of their truth claims, the arrogance of their literalisms, the arrogance of their greed for influence and power, the arrogance of their treatment of apostates (yes this applies more to Islam than Christianity), the arrogance of their lack of introspection, the arrogance of their treatment of women.........the list is endless.

    Yes of course this is their projection of their qualities onto those who point out the naked emperor of their claims, but its indicative of their arrogance that they seek arrogance where there is doubt, scepticism and humility.

    Note how parts of the right and left congregate here together in their reaction to the 'arrogance' of secularism and atheism - one for old Christian ascendancy reasons, the other for new skool 'multiculturalism means deferring to Islam' reasons.



    I somewhat agree with this. Militant as a phrase is very much to stir peoples emotions up and not get people to think in a rational way. There are no Atheists holding a gun up for Atheism, not even in China where they have at least the decency to have a Christian church that has been ticked off by the state (at least some allowance there). There are however plenty of godly ones holding up guns for their faiths. It just smacks of a lack of clear vision, either that or severe arrogance allowing for this to be happening in their groups as it is for Allah or the Christian god (attacking abortion clinics in S USA) therefore it is all hunky dory. I would really like to see Warsi being as successful under a sharia law country as she is in the UK.

    On a side note - I despise people who think that Atheism is all about belief in evolution, it makes me roll my eyes when I hear stuff about that (see some of the comments in the articles linked).

    Anyway, glad to see my thread has been a success debate wise. Please carry on an link anything else you view of relevance into this thread, might make a change of titles dependant on the success of it to Militant Atheism resources and debate.
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #39 - February 15, 2012, 02:49 PM

    Look her personal business is her personal business, who she marries, who she fucks etc. I don't see the point of that article other then being just trashy. So, Warsi is an idiot who wants to gain support from the religious fools. This will be her down-fall, she's fucking with very powerful people, more powerful then her daddy.
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #40 - February 15, 2012, 03:03 PM

    Look her personal business is her personal business, who she marries, who she fucks etc. I don't see the point of that article other then being just trashy. So, Warsi is an idiot who wants to gain support from the religious fools. This will be her down-fall, she's fucking with very powerful people, more powerful then her daddy.

    yap her personal life is her business ., and personal life other people also their business NOT HER business or her religion's business or Vatican business..


    She should also tell that to Vatican  and stop  crying about  Europe's 'aggressive secularism' in Vatican..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QLl4w4HuLM

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #41 - February 15, 2012, 03:23 PM

    I wish people would study history

    Quote
    Canossa (Province of Reggio Emilia) is a comune and castle town in Emilia-Romagna, famous as the site where Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV did penance in 1077, standing three days bare-headed in the snow, in order to reverse his excommunication by Pope Gregory VII. The Walk to Canossa is sometimes used as a symbol of the changing relationship between the medieval Church and State.


    Quote
    The pope made his usual attack on secularism.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11703708

    Pope Benedict XVI has warned of an "aggressive anti-clericalism" in Spain which he said was akin to that experienced during the 1930s.

    He arrived in the pilgrimage city of Santiago de Compostela at the beginning of a two-day visit to Spain.

    "The clash between faith and modernity is happening again, and it is very strong today," he told reporters on the plane, quoted by AFP news agency.

    He is due to celebrate an open-air Mass and then travel to Barcelona on Sunday.

    "Spain saw in the 1930s the birth of a strong and aggressive anti-clericalism," Pope Benedict said.


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #42 - February 15, 2012, 03:39 PM

    In trying to 'prove' someone else's arrogance, she's pretty much arrogant herself as to suggest that faith is far more important. Really? What about education, employment etc.? Of course, faith is far more important for them to speak for. And let's not even talk about their intention to disregard all these things and go out after people who try their best to fight against ignorance of various kinds. By underlining their negative intent, they're bound to look bad which is something we don't want because somehow theists are under attack because they don't have their 'right' over wasting resources on things that have little to do with important aspects like education.

    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #43 - February 15, 2012, 03:52 PM

    Thank God for Baroness Warsi - a Muslim with the courage to defend our Christian nation that is what  Rev George Pitcher says there

    The nuggets in it are
    Quote
    ...About a year ago, she declared that Islamophobia had 'passed the dinner-party test' in Europe. And she was right: There was a creeping, social assumption that all Muslims were potential terrorists and a growing and dark sense that this was the new equivalent of the casual and ugly anti-semitism in Britain before the Second World War.......


    It's a journey on which Europe embarks as a collection of Christian nations, alongside all their citizens who don't share that faith. Meanwhile, bossy secularists want to sweep this heritage from Europe, in favour of...well, nothing at all.
     
    Quote
    "Professor Richard Dawkins was on the radio this morning telling us that we're 'not really Christian' because we 'don't think as Christians' and to tell us, in his arrogance, what is 'fundamental to the Christian religion.' He and his fellow 'militant secularists' believe that they can sweep away the centuries that made our culture what it is today and, like some Soviet, totalitarian regime from the Cold War, ban religion from public life and dictate to us what he thinks we must believe."



    well.. it is just start there are plenty of Rev Pitchers that will support Miss peer..baroness .. read more at that link

     


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #44 - February 15, 2012, 04:16 PM

    I also do not understand what this xian nation is - it certainly is not the UK as Wales does not have an established church, and England and Scotland are not members of the UN.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #45 - February 15, 2012, 05:04 PM

    With a population that's something like 40% non-theist, what kind of Christian country is it? This woman needs to be sacked.

    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #46 - February 15, 2012, 05:43 PM

    I don't get why she has such a big role in govt either stuff. Tokenism or what?
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #47 - February 15, 2012, 06:13 PM

    How can a man with such a high IQ have such low views? writes  A N Wilson

     the nuggets in it are
    Quote
    ...Radio 4 had asked along the Rev Giles Fraser, former Canon of St Paul’s Cathedral, to lock horns with Dawkins. He said it was ludicrous to assume someone was not a Christian simply because he could not name the first book of the New Testament. And he challenged Dawkins, as the high priest of the secular movement, to recite the full title of the secularists’ own bible, Darwin’s Origin Of Species.

    So Dawkins began, ‘On The Origin of Species …’ before getting it wrong and, rather touchingly in the circumstances, groaning: ‘Oh God, there’s a sub-title.’(The full title is On The Origin Of Species By Means Of Natural Selection, Or The Preservation Of Favoured Races In The Struggle For Life.) The professor’s humiliation, in which he was skewered on his own argument, did not stop him from taking to the airwaves throughout the day to promote his anti-Christian agenda with its creed of intolerance and ignorance

     Baroness Warsi — a woman and a Muslim — was addressing the Pontifical Ecclesiastical Academy in the Vatican. She said: ‘The societies we live in, the cultures we have created, the values we hold and the things we fight for, all stem from centuries of discussion, dissent and belief in Christianity.’ Her speech was especially timely. ‘I am not calling for some kind of 21st-century theocracy,’ she went on. ‘Religious faith and its followers do not have the only answer … My concern is when secularisation is pushed to an extreme, when it requires the complete removal of faith from the public sphere.’ Note the difference in tone between Baroness Warsi and Professor Dawkins. I believe she speaks for most people in this country, for the huge number who would not call themselves very religious, but who might want a wedding or a funeral in church, and who might very well describe themselves as Christian.




      I believe that Baroness Warsi speaks for most people in this country..Thank God for Baroness Warsi - a Muslim with the courage to defend our Christian nation

     

    Yap Let us all be thankful to PEER Baroness Warsi ., and let us all elect her Prime Minster of England  .. may be Queen of England...  Stupid UNEDUCATED FILTHY PROFESSOR.

     http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02139/radcliffe_2139052b.jpg
    Hmm that is forked tongue..  


     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #48 - February 15, 2012, 06:21 PM

    He's delusional ^^^

    Most people are contemptuous about what she said. And to compare her rhetoric with Dawkins, and to say the woman who uses language about totalitarianism, 'militant' secularism, about how people who don't wear their religion on their sleeve are 'frightened' of multiple identities is temperate, is laughable.

    AN Wilson is a text book example of a Daily Mail Christian ascendancy old reactionary. Warsi diminishes by the day.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #49 - February 15, 2012, 08:42 PM

    well baroness here  talks about Razia Sultana.. Queen of India.. A Turkish Women becomes Queen of the then Indian subcontinent

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMc4vsFgb-M


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaohc-gpRRs

    Well that is about Razia Sultana..

    May be Queen Baroness doesn't understand Bedouin  Islam,  neither   Razia Sultana of that time understood that Bedouin Islam ., If there is any credit that should be given for  Razia becoming a Queen India that is Not because of Islam that is in spite of Islam and it should go that hindu Indian.    My Lady baroness says A Muslim lady was Queen in the middle ages as if the credit should go that Bedouin Islam of that Indian Desert..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #50 - February 15, 2012, 08:49 PM

    It is just so peculiar to me though, a Muslim pleading for more Christianity. It is almost like a deep sea fish pleading for low pressure conditions.


    I get it. For starters they have more in common than they like to admit, and most importantly they are on the same wavelength...they both worship god (ridiculous ridiculous god).
    It's like a Red Sox fan, a Yankees fan, and a guy who thinks baseball is stupid deciding whether to build a baseball diamond or soccer field. Even though Yankees fans and Red Sox fans hate each other, they both like baseball.  


    anyway...

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #51 - February 15, 2012, 09:31 PM

    LoL @ Stephen Pollard ^^^

    Well to be fair, Dawkins does say some silly things at times. Implying that someone can't be a Christian if they haven't memorised all the books of the Bible is asking for it. Since Darwin's book is arguably the most important book in biology, and since Dawkins is a biologist, I can see why they enjoyed winding him up by asking him to state the complete title. I got a bit of a laugh out of that one myself.

    However, this has nothing to do with secularism per se.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #52 - February 15, 2012, 09:35 PM

    Andrew Copson and Anne Atkins discussing 'militant secularism'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Wreyq33c0

    Chief Executive of the BHA Andrew Copson makes the right points here, clearly and concisely.

    Homophobic Christian broadcaster Anne Atkins flails wildly. She can’t even decide what lie she wants to tell. She can’t even finish a sentence before she starts another. What a pathetic contradictory creature she is.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #53 - February 15, 2012, 10:08 PM

    What is with this "It's not necessary" argument when someone objects to Christian prayers being on the formal agenda of a public organisation?

    Sure, it's not strictly "necessary" to object to prayers being on the formal agenda, but on the other hand it certainly isn't necessary for them to be on the agenda in the first place. Are Christians trying to claim that having Christian prayers on the formal agenda of a council meeting is necessary for the functioning of said council? If not, why object to them not being on the agenda?

    ETA: It's also easy to turn the intolerance argument around. If Christians want to claim that objecting to having their prayers on the formal agenda is "intolerant" then they should consider the other point of view.

    Council meetings are boring and time-consuming. It is perfectly understandable that someone whose attendance is required may have limited time and enthusiasm for being there, and would greatly prefer to just get on with the business at hand rather than being forced to sit through someone else's religious rituals.

    Forcing such a person to sit through your religious rituals could be seen as being "disrespectful" of them, and of the other demands on their time. Getting upset about their desire to just get on with council business could be seen as "intolerant". If you get really upset about, you may even be "militant".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #54 - February 15, 2012, 10:39 PM

    I dont know about anything else but sometimes she is quite fanciable.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #55 - February 16, 2012, 12:50 AM

    She's an airhead.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #56 - February 16, 2012, 12:50 AM

    Here's an article for lulz: Grin
    http://newsthump.com/2012/02/14/baroness-warsi-condemns-rise-in-militant-clear-thought-and-logic/

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #57 - February 16, 2012, 12:59 AM

    Grin That's hilarious.

    "Warsi's condemnation of 'Finding Out About Stuff Properly Rather Than Guessing'................"

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #58 - February 16, 2012, 02:46 AM


    Hmm., Let me put some words from there before that link disappears ateapotist

    Quote
    Baroness Warsi has bitterly condemned ‘an alarming increase’ in thinking about two alternative explanations of why we’re here, and then choosing one based on logic, reason and evidence.

    “For too long now, people have been turning away from religion towards science. It’s almost as if they’ve starting thinking for themselves”, complained Warsi.

    “A lot of these radical scientists are a real danger to society”, she went on.

    “Particularly those corners of society built around stories about super heroes, sparkly cloud people and smiting.” “I suppose ‘science’ thinks these issues can be tackled by tarmac, bin lorries and a powerful solvent applied under pressure?”, quipped Warsi.

    “You’re welcome to give it a try, but I wouldn’t be surprised if praying solves the issues at roughly the same time.”  While Warsi admits that religion has brought mankind massive wars, terrorism, brutal totalitarian states, oppression, torture, divided communities and Aled Jones – however she also believes it gives people hope.

    “We want a return to traditional values based on fear, literal translation of allegories about goats and going to war with people who prefer slightly different stories to us”, demanded Warsi.

    “I’m just glad England’s God gave us the power to develop sophisticated weapons systems.”

    Great well Queen  bless  England for selecting such brainless Baroness., Can't England find better person to represent its MULTICULTURAL values? ...  "Scientists are real danger to society" and they are Radicals with AK-47s running around Pakistan Punjab home town..



    Great Now she is ready to propagate Islam & Christianity   together

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
     Reply #59 - February 16, 2012, 02:57 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SMyl76nMn0


    well good .,  England opened one room Universities to distribute Ph. Ds. to Pakistani or Asian students,,

    what is she talking in Pakistan about Pakistan??    She is wasting electricity...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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