Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi

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Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
OP - February 14, 2012, 07:57 AM

Quote
Britain is under threat from a rising tide of "militant secularisation", a cabinet minister has warned.

Religion is being "sidelined, marginalised and downgraded in the public sphere", Conservative co-chairwoman Baroness Warsi wrote in an article for the Daily Telegraph.

The Muslim peer said Europe needed to become "more confident and more comfortable in its Christianity".

Interesting thing again by Mrs Warsi. Honestly don't know why people are so politically interested in groups over individuals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17021831
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #1 - February 14, 2012, 08:07 AM

She's just hoping to gain more influence for Islam by hitchhiking on Christianity. Hey ho.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #2 - February 14, 2012, 10:25 AM

Quote from: Lilyesque on February 14, 2012, 07:57 AM
Interesting thing again by Mrs Warsi. Honestly don't know why people are so politically interested in groups over individuals.

'Interesting' is one way of describing her.

Quote
"I will be arguing that to create a more just society, people need to feel stronger in their religious identities and more confident in their creeds," she wrote in the Telegraph.

"In practice this means individuals not diluting their faiths and nations not denying their religious heritages

Grade A special pleading group rights doublespeak.

As Os says 'She's just hoping to gain more influence for Islam by hitchhiking on Christianity'

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #3 - February 14, 2012, 10:30 AM

This is proper double speak:

Quote
She also compared the intolerance of religion with totalitarian regimes, which she said were "denying people the right to a religious identity because they were frightened of the concept of multiple identities"

Not only is Britain at risk of becoming at one with ‘totalitarian’ regimes (keeping things in hysterical perspective for religionist purposes), the old canard about those who are secular minded being ‘frightened of multiple identities’ is thrown in too for good measure – ie: essentially they are reactionary verging on totalitarian bigots.

This is such specious, aggressive, nasty, slanderous nonsense its difficult to know where to begin. But it should be seen as central to what she’s saying.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #4 - February 14, 2012, 11:40 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on February 14, 2012, 08:07 AM
She's just hoping to gain more influence for Islam by hitchhiking on Christianity. Hey ho.

Yes, "Look out of the window, look out of the window; never mind that elephant sitting on your knee."

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #5 - February 14, 2012, 11:51 AM

She views secularism as 'militant' because she views it as eroding her religion by its lack of deferral to it (and any religion) - thus her choice of wording - 'militant' is very telling of her mindset.

Secularism actually does more, in the round, to protect individuals both from collective and group imposition, and for individuals who wish to exercise their free conscience and religious choice.

Warsi chooses to view it as a 'militancy' which I believe reveals her rather old school confrontational religious mindset and worldview.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #6 - February 14, 2012, 01:05 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on February 14, 2012, 08:07 AM
She's just hoping to gain more influence for Islam by hitchhiking on Christianity. Hey ho.

Spot on., Off course along with that she is hitchhiking in to higher political position in UK ISLAMIC POLITICS.. may be aiming to become mayor of London .

she is as stupid as skunk to say this
Quote
She wrote that examples of a "militant secularisation" taking hold of society could be seen in a number of things - "when signs of religion cannot be displayed or worn in government buildings; when states won't fund faith schools; and where religion is sidelined, marginalised and downgraded in the public sphere".

She also compared the intolerance of religion with totalitarian regimes, which she said were "denying people the right to a religious identity because they were frightened of the concept of multiple identities". Her comments come days after the High Court ruled that a Devon town council had acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said at meetings

She (Baroness Warsi) is not Christian herself but nevertheless she sees religion as a good thing - it doesn't matter what religion as long as there's some religion and that's better than no religion. There is absolutely no logical basis for that” ........Professor Richard Dawkins

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #7 - February 14, 2012, 04:46 PM

lol maybe she should read up on when Britain was run by canonical law and how they treated non-christians
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #8 - February 14, 2012, 04:58 PM

It is just so peculiar to me though, a Muslim pleading for more Christianity. It is almost like a deep sea fish pleading for low pressure conditions.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #9 - February 14, 2012, 05:13 PM

She's not really pleading for Christianity. She's using the language of group rights and identity politics special-pleading and claiming to speak for Christianity to attack secularism and clear a space for Islamic identity politics.

The arrogance of claiming that multiple identity is only inherent through public displays of religion too, as if those who don't do that only understand or have singular identities. More special pleading.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #10 - February 14, 2012, 05:23 PM

Oh yep I get you, it just seems so divisionary to me. Be a member of a religion or you are diddly squat.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #11 - February 14, 2012, 05:28 PM

Where does Warsi fit into the Tories' gameplan? More to the point, which bit of the party benefits here?

On the one hand, she's its most prominent poster child for bourgeois Muslim membership. On the other, her confessional affiliation allows the party's Christian wing to make it look like this call isn't anything to do with them, although they will, in fact, be its main beneficiaries.

As Muslims don't exactly form an influential wing of the party themselves, I'm left wondering what's going on..

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #12 - February 14, 2012, 06:33 PM

I am somwhat confused on that too toor, unless she actually prefers Xtianity to Islam in her head.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #13 - February 14, 2012, 06:53 PM

No, I think she just feels that she can protect Islam against the evils of 'militant secularism' by promoting identity-politics Christianity, ie: the more they assert themselves, the more Islam can assert itself too.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #14 - February 14, 2012, 07:12 PM

Woman reminds me of an American politician from Down South or something.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #15 - February 14, 2012, 07:45 PM

She's the worst kind of hypocrite - it's like she can't open her mouth without it gushing fountains of shit. People like her are often far more infuriating than the true extremists, because they really fucking should know better.

You need to read this book.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #16 - February 14, 2012, 08:34 PM

I get more than just a faint whiff of ambition above all else from her utterances.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #17 - February 14, 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote from: billy on February 14, 2012, 05:13 PM
She's not really pleading for Christianity. She's using the language of group rights and identity politics special-pleading and claiming to speak for Christianity to attack secularism and clear a space for Islamic identity politics.

Exactly, and it's so obvious.

Quote
The arrogance of claiming that multiple identity is only inherent through public displays of religion too, as if those who don't do that only understand or have singular identities. More special pleading.

Well, we all know that theocracies are so tolerant of religious diversity, right?

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #18 - February 14, 2012, 08:45 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on February 14, 2012, 04:58 PM
It is just so peculiar to me though, a Muslim pleading for more Christianity. It is almost like a deep sea fish pleading for low pressure conditions.

[off topic] Interesting point here. It used to be thought that it was the change in pressure that killed deep sea fish, but that turned out not to be the case. It is actually the change in temperature that kills them. This is assuming the ascent is slow enough for them to adjust, of course.

What they need to survive is not high pressure, but a water temperature close to zero. Makes sense really, given that humans and other animals can adjust to a wide range of pressure, and that the natural habitat of deep sea fish is freezing cold water. [/off topic]

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #19 - February 14, 2012, 08:48 PM

Hehe, maybe I should have clarified that Osman.., should have said pleading for a sudden onslaught of low pressure conditions.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #20 - February 14, 2012, 08:49 PM

I think you guys are right in your observations and conclusions overall, either that or Warsi is an extremely confused lady.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #21 - February 14, 2012, 08:51 PM

Quote from: billy on February 14, 2012, 06:53 PM
No, I think she just feels that she can protect Islam against the evils of 'militant secularism' by promoting identity-politics Christianity, ie: the more they assert themselves, the more Islam can assert itself too.

A strategy that relies upon empowered Christians to remain neutral against their enemies? This strikes me - at the very least - as rather high-risk, if not outright naive. Still, political careers are short and consequences long, so perhaps she really is that stupid.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #22 - February 14, 2012, 08:57 PM

You have to remember that she is thinking of the Anglican Church, which even if empowered is more concerned with tea and crumpets than with burning heretics. I think she would be far more wary if she was in the US Bible Belt and surrounded by fundy Baptists.

IOW, she thinks that if she can get more clout for religion in general, the self-effacing nature of the Anglican Church will mean it remains harmless and Islam will be able to assert itself more vigorously.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #23 - February 14, 2012, 08:59 PM

I guess fights are easier to enact when you have an identifiable and (fairly) unified enemy. That said UK Muslims are hardly a large minority, and Christians have bugbears about one another, especially v Catholics unless you are Orthodox churches. It just seems like a hiding into nothing, there seems to be no long-term plan behind it. It just seems to be emotional riling up kind of politics instead of long-term planned politics, something of a credit to Dictatorships is that they can plan extremely far into the future.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #24 - February 14, 2012, 09:16 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on February 14, 2012, 08:57 PM
You have to remember that she is thinking of the Anglican Church, which even if empowered is more concerned with tea and crumpets than with burning heretics. I think she would be far more wary if she was in the US Bible Belt and surrounded by fundy Baptists.

IOW, she thinks that if she can get more clout for religion in general, the self-effacing nature of the Anglican Church will mean it remains harmless and Islam will be able to assert itself more vigorously.

Not all Anglicans are the same, though; Evangelical types - who wield some real influence in the Conservative Party now - aren't traditionally perfect fits for the tea and crumpet type of hands-off Christianity.

Self-effacing appears to be more of a High Church thing, largely because the smells n'bells crowd hasn't been all that worried about 'correct' theology or saving souls. I'd be willing to bet that this High Church lot isn't leading the opposition to 'Militant Secularists', whatever those are.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #25 - February 14, 2012, 09:21 PM

Fair point.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #26 - February 14, 2012, 09:29 PM

Trust me the Anglican chaplain at my university believes in evolution bar that of humans, and also that homosexuality is definitely wrong and they be damned to hell. Some Anglicans are much more aligned to the Catholic strand of Xtianity than to the church they say they belong to.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #27 - February 14, 2012, 09:30 PM

I thought she is felt to be not quite kosher as a Muslim though!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #28 - February 14, 2012, 09:32 PM

Moi, neither is Shah Rukh Khan though.
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Re: Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi
Reply #29 - February 14, 2012, 09:41 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9080441/We-stand-side-by-side-with-the-Pope-in-fighting-for-faith.html

Another link about this that was put into the shoutbox.
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