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 Topic: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28

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  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #150 - February 18, 2012, 05:44 AM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on February 17, 2012, 02:13 PM
    popcorn
    enquiring minds wanna know..

    Boy meets girl (despite rumours to the contrary catwalk models are girls). They do boy-girl stuff. Boy gets heart broken both times.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #151 - February 19, 2012, 04:06 PM
    oh..  far away hug ..

    then...
    boy travels to the caribbean... and lives happily ever after..  grin12
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #152 - February 19, 2012, 07:34 PM
    Quote from: allat on February 15, 2012, 07:01 AM
    The research I've done on this topic strongly suggests that it is those people in post-industrialist capitalist societies who aim to attract men that suffer from eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia. That includes straight women and gay men. Those who aimed to attract women i.e. straight men and gay women suffered significantly less from anorexia and bulimia. So... now which demographic shall we blame?

    None?
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #153 - February 19, 2012, 07:35 PM
    I blame silly people who are bonkers enough to starve themselves. yes
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #154 - February 19, 2012, 07:39 PM
    I wouldn't disregard the fact that such issues exist primarily in (as allat pointed out) in post-industrialist capitalist societies.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #155 - February 19, 2012, 07:46 PM
    There are plenty of straight woman and gay men in those societies who aren't anorexic. Most other societies are probably too concerned with survival to starve themselves. In any case, ultimately my point stands. If you are anorexic you can't really blame anyone or anything else. You can grumble about other factors influencing your outlook, but that's all.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #156 - February 19, 2012, 08:00 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 19, 2012, 07:46 PM
    There are plenty of straight woman and gay men in those societies who aren't anorexic.

    Most people aren't anorexic, but a lot have self-esteem issues and psychological issues in general.

    Quote from: osmanthus on February 19, 2012, 07:46 PM

    In any case, ultimately my point stands. If you are anorexic you can't really blame anyone or anything else. You can grumble about other factors influencing your outlook, but that's all.

    Yeah, ultimately it's the individual who makes the choice. But not all choices are completely free, especially if there's pathology involved.

    The reason why I mentioned capitalism specifically is because it thrives on the desire itself - it doesn't just tell you what to desire but also celebrates the desire to desire in order to fulfil some pointless unattainable ideal.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #157 - February 19, 2012, 08:07 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 19, 2012, 08:00 PM
    Most people aren't anorexic, but a lot have self-esteem issues and psychological issues in general.

    I'd bet that applies to any society, and to any demographic within any society.


    Quote
    Yeah, ultimately it's the individual who makes the choice. But not all choices are completely free, especially if there's pathology involved.

    Of course. I'm not saying that people with genuine pathology don't deserve respect and consideration. It's still bonkers to assign responsibility to external factors though.


    Quote
    The reason why I mentioned capitalism specifically is because it thrives on the desire itself - it doesn't just tell you what to desire but also celebrates the desire to desire in order to fulfil some pointless unattainable ideal.

    If you're claiming that the pursuit of daft ideals is a purely capitalist phenomenon, you've just shot yourself in the foot.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #158 - February 19, 2012, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 19, 2012, 08:07 PM
    If you're claiming that the pursuit of daft ideals is a purely capitalist phenomenon, you've just shot yourself in the foot.

    No, of course not.

    What I was suggesting is that capitalism is specific here as it relies on desire to produce desire itself but never to really find satisfaction because satisfied consumers don't buy stuff (BMW convertibles, iPhones) /consume services (gym memberships, botox treatments) that are supposed to satisfy that desire.
     
    Have you seen The Century of Self: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #159 - February 19, 2012, 08:48 PM
    Ok, but that's still relying on a universal human trait that is seen under other systems too.

    ETA: Meaning that although the desire for Botox (just to pick a random example) may be specific to certain societies, it's still prompted by the same things that motivate people in other societies: increased social status, greater success in getting a mate, blah blah blah. It's just that in other societies people see other things as providing the means to those ends, and that frequently the means are just as daft and counter-productive. It's not all down to "the media" and capitalism.

    More ETA stuffz: Thing is that as far as I'm concerned, saying it's the media or capitalism or whatever is a glib response that doesn't really get us anywhere. What's really needed is analysis of exactly what is behind certain choices of "ideals".
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #160 - February 19, 2012, 09:23 PM
    Come to think of it, the media and capitalism promote other things apart from anorexic models. Athletes are a good example. They get a lot of coverage and adulation, and female athletes are not anorexic at all. They can't afford to be. There is also a large industry for products, services and advertising relating to sports and exercise for women. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has just as much influence as the fashion industry, or even more. How many people really pay that much attention to the fashion industry?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #161 - February 19, 2012, 11:03 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 19, 2012, 09:23 PM
    Come to think of it, the media and capitalism promote other things apart from anorexic models. Athletes are a good example. They get a lot of coverage and adulation, and female athletes are not anorexic at all. They can't afford to be. There is also a large industry for products, services and advertising relating to sports and exercise for women. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has just as much influence as the fashion industry, or even more. How many people really pay that much attention to the fashion industry?


    Females athletes aren't promoted as a sexy body ideal, no good in the attraction of a mate.  Too much muscles, or toning is a turn off so I am always told/shown.

    Maybe something that people keep forgetting here is that anorexia isn't just about attaining the ideal body type, since the starvation takes you beyond anything that remotely resembles sexy.  It's also about control. 

    Puberty, bullying, abuse, sexual abuse etc, are all triggers to anorexia, not just images in the magazines.

    I wasn't raised in a family that valued skinny.  In fact in morocco curves were more attractive in a potential wife.  My self esteem issues aren't just weigh related though so moroccans still played their part.  However I never really started starving myself until I was 17, after being raped.  I seemed to just naturally stop eating.  Tell myself it was about being slim.  If I was in control of something, than I was in control.

    It's an OCD in it's own way.  At the height of it I had a regimented eating plan.  Breaking down bits of bread in a specific way, repetively, as if my life depended on getting it right.

    I see all this talk about the push from the media, but isn't that ignoring the other parts of anorexia that have nothing to do with weight at all?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #162 - February 19, 2012, 11:09 PM
    Well yeah, good points about control and all that, but what also interests me is why the fashion industry is pushing for anorexic (or near anorexic) models too. This push is coming from people who don't have anorexia themselves, so what is behind it?

    And who says toned female bodies aren't attractive? Why are you listening to people who say that, when there are lots of people who say otherwise? What makes you choose to listen to some people and not others?

    ETA: And the other thing is that lingerie models (Victoria's Secret girls are a prime example) aren't generally anorexic, so why is it that runway models are expected to be?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #163 - February 20, 2012, 05:48 AM
    Thin and tall is often the best presentation for clothes. That is why there is a bigger push for run way models to have anorexia look. Where as underwear models need the breast and buttock to show off the underwear. Most anorexia types don't have curves to fill the undrwear.

    True anorexia is for the most part a control issue or OCD type problem. If you think about it your intake of food is something you can have total control of. (That is given the situation where a person has access to food in the first place) The person may feel some pressure from other sorces, media, what people say or such. However, they've lost touch with the reality of what thier body looks like and how this relates to how they are eating.

    I've lost over 70 pounds in the last 2 years. When I look at myself in the mirror I can not see where I look any different. Seems like a strange thing to some one who has normal body image concepts. But for a person with body image problems reality is difficult.  When I was an in shape athletic teenager
    running 5 miles 3 days week, doing marshal arts 4 hours twice a week, I could do 40 consecutive push up. I'm 5 foot 1 inch and at that time weighed 105 pound. My Mom would tell me if I wasn't so fat she'd buy me some cute clothes. My Mom was on me never ending to lose weight.

    So before I lost the 70 pounds I was way over weight. But now I have a two fold problem. I'm on a medication that  competely messes with my desire to eat and I have no idea what I look like. So here is something like the anorexics problem. I'm standing there in my new dress and some one who doesn't understand my problem walks up and says, "You lost some weight, looks good in that new dress!" Being that I have the body image problem, all I hear is the compliment, that would make me feel successful if that was what I was needing. 

    Body image problems are complex.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #164 - February 20, 2012, 06:02 AM
    Quote from: Raccoon Rapist on February 14, 2012, 08:43 PM
    Causes in this case don't matter much. It just needs to be changed is all. The fashion industry should be collectivized and responsible people given oversight. Most of it's wasteful bullshit anyways.


    I think I've found the appropriate substitute to morning prayers. From now on I'll just remind myself every morning how lucky I am that someone like you hasn't been handed the keys to my society.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #165 - February 20, 2012, 06:08 AM
     Roll Eyes

    Yeah, god forbid the economy was run collectively in the interest of society as a whole instead of the corporate criminals running the show simply on the basis of what makes them more money right now.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #166 - February 20, 2012, 06:23 AM
    Reading through the first 4 pages of this thread, what I think the most distasteful thing is the ease with which women are putting on the victim hood suit of clothing. And in my opinion, in this case its completely unjustified. The so called "pressures" to conform to the ideal size of woman are not forcibly being imposed on women/men, and in most cases are not even stated. The images are shown, and maybe there is some effort to subliminally influence viewership, but even so I can only respond by saying "tough titties".

    So many unrealistic images are promoted through media be it with regard to body image, material possessions, hyper-sexualization, etc. and all of it is used to promote products. If some people are stupid enough to extrapolate these images into a conception of a positive, healthy lifestyle then they can starve/steroid/sex themselves to death for all I care. I have very little sympathy for their "hardships".
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #167 - February 20, 2012, 06:32 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 19, 2012, 07:35 PM
    I blame silly people who are bonkers enough to starve themselves. yes


    +9000
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #168 - February 20, 2012, 07:40 AM
    Being a victim is intensely debilitating. As long as you assign power to external factors you are taking it away from yourself. Fuck the media. It throws all sorts of shit at me too, but I'm not obliged to take any notice.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #169 - February 20, 2012, 07:44 AM
    Quote from: Lynna on February 20, 2012, 05:48 AM
    Thin and tall is often the best presentation for clothes. That is why there is a bigger push for run way models to have anorexia look. Where as underwear models need the breast and buttock to show off the underwear.

    I have to call bullshit on this. The Victoria's Secret girls are long and skinny girls. They're just healthy ones. They look fine fully clothed too. There's absolutely no reason why standard runway models should be less healthy, except that some idiots (including designers and models) have got this bee in their collective bonnets about making models look like shit.

    Note, by the way, that contrary to the Victoria's Secret advertising I am not proposing that their models are the world's sexiest women or ideal women. They're just good examples of their type.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #170 - February 20, 2012, 09:39 AM
    Quote from: asbdsp on February 20, 2012, 06:23 AM
    Reading through the first 4 pages of this thread, what I think the most distasteful thing is the ease with which women are putting on the victim hood suit of clothing. And in my opinion, in this case its completely unjustified. The so called "pressures" to conform to the ideal size of woman are not forcibly being imposed on women/men, and in most cases are not even stated. The images are shown, and maybe there is some effort to subliminally influence viewership, but even so I can only respond by saying "tough titties".

    So many unrealistic images are promoted through media be it with regard to body image, material possessions, hyper-sexualization, etc. and all of it is used to promote products. If some people are stupid enough to extrapolate these images into a conception of a positive, healthy lifestyle then they can starve/steroid/sex themselves to death for all I care. I have very little sympathy for their "hardships".


    Yes, as a man, you truly have the experience of being raised as a woman to base your superior post on.

    As to not being FORCED, in who's household are you talking about?  are you talking about the girls who have parents who physically impose diets on their children from young?  are you talking about fat girls in the school playground who are bullied daily for not fitting in with this ideal?

    Or are you just talking out of your privileged ass?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #171 - February 20, 2012, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: nessrriinn on February 19, 2012, 04:06 PM
    boy travels to the caribbean... and lives happily ever after..  grin12

    The vixen dragged me from the Caribbean to frigid Japan.

    She's now sleeping under the kotatsu (a low heated table with a blanket-like skirt) tipsy on plum wine.



    (I've said it before, but you have a most beautiful voice and your videos are fab.)
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #172 - February 20, 2012, 03:45 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 20, 2012, 09:39 AM
    Yes, as a man, you truly have the experience of being raised as a woman to base your superior post on.

    As to not being FORCED, in who's household are you talking about?  are you talking about the girls who have parents who physically impose diets on their children from young?  are you talking about fat girls in the school playground who are bullied daily for not fitting in with this ideal?

    Or are you just talking out of your privileged ass?


    I didn't claim superiority, so I don't understand where that statement came from.  Huh?

    As far as being raised as a woman goes, through the examples mentioned I've pointed out that women are not the only ones who are bombarded with harmful media messages about self image. For example if a man chooses, he can make harmful personal decisions because he doesn't have a sports car, or a bodybuilder's physique. The important distinction from your imposed diet example is that these are personal choices, and as such people should take personal responsibility for the negative outcomes. Of course I'm sympathetic to kids who are being malnourished, I don't see how that affects my point about how personal choices affect individual well being far more than media messages in this overall situation.

    I also don't see how a privileged background has anything to do with this, because as far as I can tell anorexia and related disorders are not particularly consigned to people of lower socioeconomic status.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #173 - February 20, 2012, 04:02 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 20, 2012, 07:44 AM
    I have to call bullshit on this. The Victoria's Secret girls are long and skinny girls. They're just healthy ones. They look fine fully clothed too. There's absolutely no reason why standard runway models should be less healthy, except that some idiots (including designers and models) have got this bee in their collective bonnets about making models look like shit.

    Note, by the way, that contrary to the Victoria's Secret advertising I am not proposing that their models are the world's sexiest women or ideal women. They're just good examples of their type.


    I've never actually seen a Victoria Secret advertisement. So I can only take your word on it, with regard t those models. Which is not a problem. I was just thinking about things I had seen and heard. I don't agree with the idea of very thin women to the point of poor health.

    The main idea I was thinking about is that eating disorders aren't caused by one factor. Like just seeing ultra thin runway models. There are multiple factors involved. Needing to have control of something in an out of control life, is a big one. Body image problems is another. I had some eating problems when I was young, not severe ones. It would take an expert to explain all the details.

    My thought is that since you're a man you see and think differntly about the women's clothing advertisements then a woman would.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #174 - February 20, 2012, 04:44 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 20, 2012, 07:44 AM
    I have to call bullshit on this. The Victoria's Secret girls are long and skinny girls. They're just healthy ones. They look fine fully clothed too. There's absolutely no reason why standard runway models should be less healthy, except that some idiots (including designers and models) have got this bee in their collective bonnets about making models look like shit.

    Note, by the way, that contrary to the Victoria's Secret advertising I am not proposing that their models are the world's sexiest women or ideal women. They're just good examples of their type.


    They hot. I used to jerk off to them frequently.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #175 - February 20, 2012, 04:49 PM
    Quote from: Raccoon Rapist on February 20, 2012, 04:44 PM
    They hot. I used to jerk off to them frequently.


     BS meter

    Don't mind me, I'm just using some of the more specialized smilies.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #176 - February 20, 2012, 04:51 PM
    I have internet porn now, don't need Victoria Secret catalog.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #177 - February 20, 2012, 04:55 PM
    I suppose you have a point. Although for a professional wanker such as myself, I do find it offers a nice "change of pace".  handjob
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #178 - February 20, 2012, 05:18 PM
    Quote from: David on February 20, 2012, 12:36 PM
    She's now sleeping under the kotatsu (a low heated table with a blanket-like skirt) tipsy on plum wine.

    *mental image*..  Grin but they say couples who drink together.. well..  sloshed
    ...
    and thanks so much..  Smiley
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
  • Re: Isabelle Caro, the face of anorexia, dies at 28
     Reply #179 - February 20, 2012, 05:21 PM
    Quote from: asbdsp on February 20, 2012, 03:45 PM
    I didn't claim superiority, so I don't understand where that statement came from.  Huh?

    As far as being raised as a woman goes, through the examples mentioned I've pointed out that women are not the only ones who are bombarded with harmful media messages about self image. For example if a man chooses, he can make harmful personal decisions because he doesn't have a sports car, or a bodybuilder's physique.

    Not even close to the pressure there is on women to look a certain way.

    And really, does anyone but bodybuilders want a bodybuilder's physique?
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