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Theme Changer

 Topic: Taqiyya & Abrogation

 (Read 3167 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     OP - July 29, 2011, 06:11 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZSJg1HQpc
  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #1 - July 29, 2011, 06:23 PM

    This is why I love CEMB, the unbiased and balanced views without any agenda. Spencer spouts a lot of venom to shove his agenda down people's throats.

    Great video Hass!  Afro
  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #2 - July 29, 2011, 06:34 PM

    Great video Hassan! Very informative and educational to non-muslims such as myself. It is great to get info like this from ex-muslims because you can be sure there isn't some sort of bias  Smiley

  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #3 - July 29, 2011, 08:05 PM

    Unless Hassan is actually a Muslim practicing taqqiyah in this video! Muahahaha!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #4 - August 06, 2011, 09:43 AM

    Unless Hassan is actually a Muslim practicing taqqiyah in this video! Muahahaha!


    I have had a couple of comments saying that I am practising Taqiyyah.

    These people are seriously suffering from a type of mental illness.

    excellent al taqiyya... use someone with an english accent to say "islam is peace"

    i advise anyone with a brain to read the koran without the help of a muslim

    muslims have always preached al taqiyya since mohammeds time:

    a nsw ering nonb eliever. i nfo/ was- prophet- muhammad-wron g-for-killing-kaab-bin-al-ashr­af.html

    from another muslim.. shows the mentality

    allah fukbar!
    MrMiister 8 hours ago
  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #5 - August 06, 2011, 10:16 AM

    I hadn't heard the word taqqiya before leaving Islam, however I had been told to lie to non muslims...not qite lie but not tell the truth so when I heard about taqqiya it explained the process of helping someone to convert to islam, as I had been taught to.

    I'm not saying I disagree with your video, just that I disagree that its not done as a dawah thing.  But then as you said, this is not exclusive to Islam.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #6 - August 06, 2011, 11:44 AM



    Hello Every one peace of the Lord Jesus Christ..


    This is Islamic exPILination, This is YOUR TRANSLATION 1/11.jpg

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #7 - August 07, 2011, 10:03 PM

    Unless Hassan is actually a Muslim practicing taqqiyah in this video! Muahahaha!

    Yeah, I have it on good authority he never was a muslim and has always been a Maronite Christian. Or a Jew. Or something… They’re all the same Wink.

    Great video, clear, concise and unbiased.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #8 - February 03, 2015, 11:03 AM

    With recent events in Pakistan (and Iraq) I actually see Shias discuss Taqiyya and something called "Tabarra".

    Quote
    Let's not forget that to protect themselves in times where their lives were in jeopardy, Shias used the doctrine of Taqiyya and were prevented from using tabarra in public. Let's be a little more cognizant of what is required in our circumstances today.

    Quote
    Taqayya can be adopted when so decreed by haakim-e-shar'a. How would 50 million Pakistani Shias dissimulate? There is a time for taqayya and a time for difaa (proactive self defence). Which is it right now for us? Appeasing takfiris by foregoing tabarra or obliterating them?

    Quote
    I didn't say foregoing tabarra, I said limiting tabarra in public which would be sufficient to save lives, taqaiyya is a dramatic measure

    Quote
    So the Sunnis, Christians, Assyrians, Yezidis, Kurds, Hindus etc who are being killed by the same Salafi and Deobandi groups like ISIS/Boko Haram/Taliban/FSA/ASWJ-LeJ were also doing Tabbara?
    And what is Tabarra? If it is abusing certain personalities, then it is a fringe practice that has routinely been condemned by Shia scholars and leaders - including BOTH Khamenai and Sistani. If Tabarra is simply highlighting the excesses of Yazeed and his benefactors without resort to abuse and personal attacks, should that also be stopped? Should Shias appease ISIS by not being critical of those historical personalities who laid the path for ISIS in its various practices like chewing livers, mass executions, rape, sex slavery, slavery, destruction of entire societies, forced conversions, giving dhimmi status to non muslims etc etc.

    Is it wrong to be critical ; NOT abusive; of "great muslim generals" like Khalid Bin Walid? He who instituted the practice of Sex Slavery, execution of surrendered prisoners including muslim prisoners like Malik Bin Nuwariya who accepted the Holy Prophet but did not want to pay Zakat to the Caliphs. What is the take on this? Should Shias become total apologists. Bear in mind, this is not an endorsement of the disturbing and offensive tactics of controversial and marginalised polemicists like Yasir Habib. However, even if one were to accept that ISIS/Boko Haram/ASWJ-LeJ is COLLECTIVELY punishing ALL Shias - all 200 million + - for the offensive speech of a few dozen or so - is that a valid excuse?? and If this excuse is valid, how does it explain that other faith groups are also being massacred by the same groups who are killing Shias.


    -----------

    Unless Hassan is actually a Muslim practicing taqqiyah in this video! Muahahaha!


    Read the comments on YouTube... banghead

    Quote
    This video is in itself a taqiyya lie to deceive non-muslims and lull them into a false sense of security about Islam.


    Well, really... NEVER read the comments on YouTube!

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #9 - February 04, 2015, 01:14 AM

    Powerful stuff: a CEMB official opinion* against Spencer and Wilders.

    Re Spencer, I've made use of Spencer's links and material. I even comment on his blog sometimes (he'd rather I didn't - see below). So I dunno. Do I have to defend myself? Yeah, I think I do . . .

    First, my problem is I don't go to school (currently) and I don't go to mosque (uh...). So I must "seek 'ilm even in China" as the saying goes.

    Spencer ("Did Muhammad Exist?") linked Athanasius II's epistle against "pagan feasts" to the Book of Acts when Nevo and Hoyland hadn't, and before Zellentin explained what Acts was doing there. He also ("The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran") pointed out where the Qur'an treats all Prophets as delivering the same message, thereby the Qur'an hints that the Arab Prophet was in the same tradition. He linked to Kashi Pandita's look at the Ghazwatu'l-Hind, that the traditions might belong to Ibn al-Qasim working under the Damascus-and-Jerusalem caliphs (al-Walid I, Sulayman). His books pointed me to a lot of other stuff, like Donner's "Qur'anic Furqan". (House of War benefitted most.)

    I think Spencer's also raised some issues which other scholars have had to address since then: why do Syrians and Armenians call the Prophet "Mahmet", why is our secondary material for the sira so wretched. They usually do it in blogs or twitter but still, they know he's out there.

    But yes, Spencer is an activist first, and that means he doesn't entirely understand how scholarship works. He didn't organise "Did Muhammad Exist?" well. He commits howlers like citing a hadith of 'A'isha when he's talking Shi'i fiqh.  015 One should like Spencer to take more care over his own output. Ironically it's other activists who stand to get burned most - the scholars already know to be careful about him.

    Clinton Bennett, "Studying Islam" IMO treats Spencer (and others) with a level head.

    *loaded term removed
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #10 - February 04, 2015, 01:46 AM

    Comment became irrelevant. Nothing to see here

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #11 - February 04, 2015, 02:05 AM

    Fair enough: I edited out that term.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #12 - February 04, 2015, 02:32 AM

    "Taqiyya" makes me bristle as well. I've seen it abused too many times by people trying to discredit Muslims and Islamic apologists, and it becomes this cheap way of trying to cut a discussion short by robbing them of all credibility without having to do any actual debunking, discussing or debating. It's a concept that's been taken out of its context, over-inflated, and used to help justify suspicion of all Muslims everywhere.

    Let's face it. Some Muslims lie. Some Christians lie, too. Many people with a strongly-held belief or an agenda have, either knowingly or unwittingly, stretched the truth before to defend them. It happens. But those who hate Muslims are just tickled to death that an actual term exists to demonize Muslims and make this seem like not only something that all of them do on purpose, but something that's exclusively a Muslim phenomenon and not just plain old human nature.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #13 - February 04, 2015, 03:02 AM

    Fair enough: I edited out that term.

    Good stuff Smiley Afro

    This site might seem a bit neurotic when it comes to certain critiques of Islam. But there is a reason for that. It is meant as a safe heaven Smiley

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #14 - February 04, 2015, 03:44 AM

    Thanks (all) for the (continuation of the) thread by the way.

    Taqwa always implies "fear" - for instance muttaqun are those who fear God (and this is often applied to prophets who did *not* lie to their people). This is, I think, the context of Q. 3:28 - that a "fear" affected the wala' relationship between the patron and the client. This is also applicable to Aaron when the people were clamouring for the golden-calf (whether or not the tq' root was used).

    I haven't found where the Qur'an applies taqwa / taqiya to the offensive, to concealing one's intent in a campaign.

    It is important to be careful with the terms one uses.
  • Taqiyya & Abrogation
     Reply #15 - February 04, 2015, 05:03 AM


    First, my problem is I don't go to school (currently) and I don't go to mosque (uh...). So I must "seek 'ilm even in China" as the saying goes.



    Hey where have I heard that before lol.

    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
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