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 Topic: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim

 (Read 9308 times)
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  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #60 - March 03, 2011, 06:48 PM

    Which school(s)?

    There is at first glance a contradiction in the Koran on this matter. 5:5 states:

    This day  the good things are allowed to you....the chaste from among the believing women and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book before you

    Yet 2:221 states:

    And do not marry the idolatresses [mushrikati] until they believe

    The question then is how does the Muslim explain away this glaring contradiction in order to maintain their belief in the divine origin of the Koran?


    DH sometimes you come up with gems that I do agree with this however is stupidity at its highest. Jews, Christians and Muslims are all signed up to a thing called the Abrahmic religious tree if you like therefore Muslim males are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish females as they are not seen as idolators. Idolators are those who worship "false Idols" such as Hindu's as they do not worship Allah, Yaweh or God as is in these 3 faiths of the Abrahmic family tree of religions.

    "It's not enough to say that I don't believe in God. I actually regard the system as distressing: I am offended by some of the things said in the Bible and the Qur'an and I refute them." Emma Thompson

    Chat: http://client01.chat.mibbit.com/#ex-muslims
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #61 - March 03, 2011, 06:53 PM

    DH sometimes you come up with gems that I do agree with this however is stupidity at its highest. Jews, Christians and Muslims are all signed up to a thing called the Abrahmic religious tree if you like therefore Muslim males are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish females as they are not seen as idolators. Idolators are those who worship "false Idols" such as Hindu's as they do not worship Allah, Yaweh or God as is in these 3 faiths of the Abrahmic family tree of religions.

    Good point  Lilyesque ., forget idolators, they should be killed, it is  as simple as that,  but just wait until that Ramadan is over

    But I hope you realize this Islamic marriage  thing you are saying  is one way direction "that is Muslim females are NOT allowed to marry Christian and Jewish males."

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #62 - March 03, 2011, 06:54 PM

    Yeez did I say otherwise you numpty? I agree it stinks of crap but I was just giving my religious fatwah on the issue, I am fully trained in light Sharia matters Cheesy Afro!

    "It's not enough to say that I don't believe in God. I actually regard the system as distressing: I am offended by some of the things said in the Bible and the Qur'an and I refute them." Emma Thompson

    Chat: http://client01.chat.mibbit.com/#ex-muslims
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #63 - March 03, 2011, 08:08 PM

    I just talked to my fiancee and he can get a visa into India, so that's the plan now. I'm getting married in India this summer! Thanks everyone for the understanding and advice.

    Congratulations. I hope you enjoy your stay in India. India is a great country. Indians love Americans.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    ساری دنيا ايک ہي خاندان ہے
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #64 - March 03, 2011, 08:12 PM

    Lilyesque is numpty a popular word now (outside of Scowwwtlaaaand)?
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #65 - March 03, 2011, 08:19 PM

    Good point  Lilyesque ., forget idolators, they should killed as simple as that,  just wait until that Ramadan is over

    But I hope you realize this Islamic marriage  thing you are saying  is one way direction "that is Muslim females are NOT allowed to marry Christian and Jewish males."

    This would only be a problem if Americangirl and her fiance both decided to have sex changes. From what I can gather, they have no such plans. Wink

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #66 - March 03, 2011, 09:15 PM

    Hi american, you could consider having him move to Pakistan, which shares a border with afghanistan through peshawar, and there are already many afghans living in that area. Once in Pakistan it should be relatively safer and easier for the two of you to get married / leave.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #67 - March 03, 2011, 09:20 PM

    Btw - sorry for thread hijacking! Good luck americangirl.  Smiley
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #68 - March 03, 2011, 09:28 PM

    Discussion re swearing split to here: Fucking swearing and its implications.

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #69 - March 04, 2011, 12:22 AM

    Lilyesque is numpty a popular word now (outside of Scowwwtlaaaand)?


    Not popular no but this is me so I don't follow trends Afro leave me to my specialness!

    "It's not enough to say that I don't believe in God. I actually regard the system as distressing: I am offended by some of the things said in the Bible and the Qur'an and I refute them." Emma Thompson

    Chat: http://client01.chat.mibbit.com/#ex-muslims
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #70 - March 04, 2011, 05:14 AM

    Hi american, you could consider having him move to Pakistan, which shares a border with afghanistan through peshawar, and there are already many afghans living in that area. Once in Pakistan it should be relatively safer and easier for the two of you to get married / leave.

    She already mentioned, it is not an option.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #71 - March 04, 2011, 06:05 AM

    Quote from: osmanthus
    The question then is how does the DH explain away his glaring lack of knowledge of the basics in order to maintain his belief in his own divinity?


    More lame attempts at sarcasm to mask your inability to effectively rebut my statements.

    Quote
    Application of clue by four: Christians and Jews are not regarded as idolators.


    Which, true to form, you cannot back up with corroborating Koranic references. I can so back up mine however:

    And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they! They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner


    You might be tempted to dredge up surah 2:62:

    Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

    As I have explained a number of times before (and which has obviously not penetrated your smug exterior) "good" Christians and Jews are, when all is said and done, recognizable by their acceptance of the divinity of the Koran ie THEY BECOME MUSLIMS.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #72 - March 04, 2011, 06:11 AM

    Quote from: Lilyesque
    DH sometimes you come up with gems that I do agree with this however is stupidity at its highest. Jews, Christians and Muslims are all signed up to a thing called the Abrahmic religious tree if you like therefore Muslim males are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish females as they are not seen as idolators.


    See my above post to Osmanthus. You have obviously derived your "understanding" of Islam from the likes of Karen Armstrong.

    Quote
    Idolators are those who worship "false Idols" such as Hindu's as they do not worship Allah, Yaweh or God as is in these 3 faiths of the Abrahmic family tree of religions.


    How beautifully inclusive. Doesn't alter the fact that, according to the book of Allah, anybody who defines themselves as "Jew" or "Chrisrtian" alive today will burn in hell for an assortment of Koranically defined "sins"

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #73 - March 04, 2011, 09:01 AM

    You didn't back up your claim at all. The text you quoted didn't say anything about idolatry. Keep trying.

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #74 - March 04, 2011, 10:15 AM

    DH, this thread isn't even about contradictions within Islamic theology, it's about helping someone marry someone they love, but you can't even respect that. The only important issue here is whether Muslims will acknowledge their marriage as being legitimate - whether or not this position is theologically justified is fucking irrelevant. Here's Islam QA, a pretty extreme site's ruling on Muslims marrying Christians:

    Quote
    Praise be to Allaah. 
    Allaah has permitted us to marry Jewish and Christian woman, on condition that they are chaste and avoid zina (unlawful sexual relations), and that the wali (guardian) of that Christian woman is a Muslim.


    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #75 - March 07, 2011, 07:28 AM

    Quote from: GodIsNotGreat
    DH, this thread isn't even about contradictions within Islamic theology, it's about helping someone marry someone they love, but you can't even respect that.


    Then tell that to Osmanthus who made the highly questionable assertion :
    Quote
    Hmm. Under Islamic law it would be fine for him to marry you I think.


    If someone makes a questionable statement I am of course going to question it. It is also perfectly reasonable to ask, as I did, which school(s) of Islamic law she was referring to. To which she typically provided no reply.

    Quote
    The only important issue here is whether Muslims will acknowledge their marriage as being legitimate - whether or not this position is theologically justified is fucking irrelevant.


    Whether Muslims regard a marriage as ISLAMICALLY "legitimate" is predicated on whether it is theologically justified. Of course it's fucking relevent.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #76 - March 07, 2011, 07:34 AM

    You didn't back up your claim at all. The text you quoted didn't say anything about idolatry. Keep trying.


    "Ascribing partners" to Allah - of which sura 9:31 accuses Jews and Christians - is SHIRK. People guilty of shirk are MU SHRIKS ie "idolaters". I am beginning to wonder whether you are deliberately deceitful rather than just plain ignorant. Do you really want me to waste time providing further Koranic corroboration for this?


    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #77 - March 07, 2011, 08:01 AM

    DH, its well known that muslims class Christians and Jews, (and Zoroastrians), as People of the Book, and that muslim men are allowed to marry women who are People of the Book. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #78 - March 07, 2011, 08:12 AM

    Stop behaving like an idiot, DH. You know perfectly well that I'm male. You've known it for ages, and pretending I'm female isn't going to score you any points. In any case, I don't regard it as an insult so you'll have to do better than that.

    However, since most people who know a bit about sharia know that a Muslim man marrying a Christian or Jewish woman is generally allowed I'm surprised that you want to make such a fuss about it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Marriage
    Quote
    Requirements for Islamic Marriages:

        The man who is not currently a fornicator may marry only a woman who is not currently a fornicatress or a chaste woman from the people of the Book.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_marital_jurisprudence#Other_religions
    Quote
    The Qur'an explicitly allows Muslim men to marry chaste women of the People of the Book, a term which includes Jews and Christians.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfaith_marriage_in_Islam
    Quote
    Islam allows a man to marry a woman from the People of the Book, that is, Christians and Jews, however they must be chaste.

    Etc. Go do your own research if you want to delve into it in more detail.

    Regarding idolators, AFAIK People of the Book are not classified the same as idolators (as indicated by the marriage laws). Whether or not you regard this as logically conistent doesn't matter. It's a religion. It's not supposed to be logically consistent.

    If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #79 - March 07, 2011, 10:05 AM

    Then tell that to Osmanthus who made the highly questionable assertion :
    If someone makes a questionable statement I am of course going to question it. It is also perfectly reasonable to ask, as I did, which school(s) of Islamic law she was referring to. To which she typically provided no reply.

    Whether Muslims regard a marriage as ISLAMICALLY "legitimate" is predicated on whether it is theologically justified. Of course it's fucking relevent.

    You ignored the part where I showed that IslamQA, a salafi website ruled that Muslims are allowed to marry Christians.

    Here's Qaradawi's opinion on this:

    Quote
    11. Marriage to the Women of the People of the Book

    Islam has made marriage to Jewish or Christian women lawful for Muslim men, for they are Ahl al-Kitab, that is, People of the Book, or people whose tradition is based upon a divinely revealed Scripture. Although they have distorted and altered it, they do possess a religion of divine origin, and hence Islam has made some exceptions in dealing with them. The Qur'an says: ...And the food of those who were given the Scripture (before you) is permitted to you and your food is permitted to them. And (lawful to you in marriage are) chaste women from the Believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture before you, when you give them their due cowers, desiring chastity, not lewdness or secret intrigues....(5:6: (5) )


    http://www.zawaj.com/qaradawi/marriage.html

    I'm done arguing with you. It's a waste of my time.

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #80 - March 07, 2011, 01:25 PM

    Quote from: osmanthus
    Stop behaving like an idiot, DH. You know perfectly well that I'm male. You've known it for ages, and pretending I'm female isn't going to score you any points.


    An honest mistake. No insult intended

    Quote
    However, since most people who know a bit about sharia know that a Muslim man marrying a Christian or Jewish woman is generally allowed I'm surprised that you want to make such a fuss about it.


    Your statement was that it is allowed "under Islamic law", and I merely asked to which schools you were referring. In the meantime I referred the readers to the Koran's statements on various related matters.

    Quote
    Regarding idolators, AFAIK People of the Book are not classified the same as idolators (as indicated by the marriage laws). Whether or not you regard this as logically conistent doesn't matter. It's a religion. It's not supposed to be logically consistent.


    Au contraire. Devout Muslims' ability to maintain their faith is utterly dependent on their ability to explain away the Koran's numerous internal contradictions (that is why they came up with the doctrine of abrogation). Furthermore, my identification of the glaring contradiction between the Koran's prohibition on marrying mushriks and its permitting the marrying of female "Peoples of the Book" who  (regardless of your ongoing insistence to the contrary) fall into the category of "Mushrik" due to their beliefs regarding Jesus etc had already been noted by Muslim theologians:


    Quote
    [al-Nisa’ 4:25]

    The Christians and Jews are kuffaar and mushrikeen, according to the Qur’aan, but they are excluded from the prohibition on marrying their women, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allaah Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress), even though she pleases you”

    [al-Baqarah 2:221]

    This is the clearest way of reconciling between the two verses.

    Allaah has described them as being mushrikeen as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”


    [al-Tawbah 9:31]

    So they are kuffaar and mushrikeen, but Allaah has permitted us to eat their meat and to marry their women if they are chaste. This is an exemption from the general meaning of the verse in Soorat al-Baqarah.

    But it should be noted that it is better and safer not to marry women of the people of the Book, especially nowadays. Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “… as this is the case, it is better not to marry a woman of the people of the Book, because ‘Umar said to those who married women of the people of the Book: ‘Divorce them,’ so they divorced them, except Hudhayfah. ‘Umar said to him: ‘Divorce her.’ (Hudhayfah) said: ‘Do you bear witness that she is haraam?’ He said: ‘She is a live coal, divorce her.’ He said: ‘Do you bear witness that she is haraam?’ He said: ‘She is a live coal.’ He said: ‘I know that she is a live coal, but she is permissible for me.’ A while later, he divorced her and it was said to him: ‘Why did you not divorce her when ‘Umar commanded you to?’ He said: ‘I did not want the people to think that I had done something wrong (by marrying her).’ Perhaps he was fond of her or perhaps they had a child together so he was fond of her.”

     SOURCE

    So there is an answer to my query:

    The question then is how does the Muslim explain away this glaring contradiction in order to maintain their belief in the divine origin of the Koran?

    Not a very concvincing explanation. But an explanation nonetheless.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #81 - March 07, 2011, 08:06 PM

    Stop behaving like an idiot, DH. You know perfectly well that I'm male.

    You are?  lipsrsealed
  • Update
     Reply #82 - June 20, 2011, 02:17 AM

    Things aren't looking good at the moment. My Afghan husband-to-be was having difficulty getting a visa to India, and doing some research online, I found that there are some places which allow an Afghan citizen to visit without having to get a visa - one being the island of St. Vincent in the Caribbean. It seemed almost too easy - just buy him a ticket, and my family was all going to be able to go to our wedding too. But of course, there is a catch - I didn't know that he would have to get a transit visa for any country where his plane lands along the way. So instead of not having to get a visa, he would have to get 2 or 3 visas.

    This suggestion from Mount A Bison, although I'm sure he was joking, is starting to sound good. "A timeless idea: Pen a weepy letter to Precedent Obama telling him that you'll switch combat sides if lover boy is not fetched instantly and installed in his own bachelor pad in New York. Tell him you are poised to leap out of your third floor bedroom window and land dangerously on a plump woman and her young brood. Say you're gonna decorate your cerebral cortex on the sidewalk. There's no way he can ignore it."

    I only wish it were that easy.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #83 - June 20, 2011, 04:10 AM

    Damn I wasn't aware you needed a transit visa, it would seem that intermediate visas wouldn't apply as long as he stayed in the airport. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
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    Just kidding, here are some true heros
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  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #84 - June 21, 2011, 07:17 AM

    That's what I thought too, deusvult, but I found out that some countries - the U.S., England, and the European Union - don't care if you stay in the secure area of the airport or not, they still require a transit visa if you are a citizen of one of the countries on their list. Afghanistan is obviously at the top of everyone's list.
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #85 - May 01, 2012, 12:36 PM

    It's been a while since I posted on here. I went to Afghanistan to get married and didn't have any problems - no terrorism, shootings, kidnappings, or bombings. I came back pregnant  grin12 and applied for my husband's visa, which has just been approved! Just a couple more months for his visa processing, medical screening, interview etc. He should be getting here close to the same time as our baby.  dance
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #86 - May 01, 2012, 12:44 PM

    Congrats Americangirl1, I'm glad things are going well for you, I hope things will stay cool and I hope we see more of you around

     Afro

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #87 - May 01, 2012, 12:47 PM

    It's been a while since I posted on here. I went to Afghanistan to get married and didn't have any problems - no terrorism, shootings, kidnappings, or bombings. I came back pregnant  grin12 and applied for my husband's visa, which has just been approved! Just a couple more months for his visa processing, medical screening, interview etc. He should be getting here close to the same time as our baby.  dance


    Boy you pulled everything so fast .. Damn you Americans If you decide to do something you do it... lol.,  Well get the guy over to America  and make sure he will cook for you and the baby.. .,

    Just kidding  .. You go girl live happily for ever....

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #88 - May 01, 2012, 12:54 PM

    Yeez did I say otherwise you numpty? I agree it stinks of crap but I was just giving my religious fatwah on the issue, I am fully trained in light Sharia matters Cheesy Afro!

    Hmm good point, I didn't read this folder until now Lilyesque., You are giving me ideas., I am going to give Internet fatwah.,

    Oh my People., Oh Muslim men., You are NOT allowed to marry  other women except those women who are born to Muslim parents and  are over 18. From Now on wards Muslim men are not allowed more than one wife at any time in their lives. Oh Muslim  From now onwards No Muslim men are   allowed to marry Christians, Jews, and idolators . Such Rascals will not be allowed to live as Muslim but Ex-Muslim.

    Where as Muslim women are allowed to marry any one as many as four Husbands at a time,  They will not be allowed more than  four husbands at any time
     ..

    Mullah yeezevee on the authority of Allah and his messenger of Muhammad.

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: ex-Mormon engaged to ex-Muslim
     Reply #89 - May 01, 2012, 06:14 PM

    Congrats Cheesy, best wishes!

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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