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Theme Changer

 Topic: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili

 (Read 5340 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     OP - January 29, 2011, 11:02 AM

    SCIENCE & ISLAM 1/6 | The language of science العلم والإسلام

    Quote
    A BBC documentary examining the great leap in scientific knowledge that took place in the Islamic world between the 8th and 14th centuries.

    Isaac Newton is, as most will agree, the greatest physicist of all time.
    At the very least, he is the undisputed father of modern optics, or so we are told at school where our textbooks abound with his famous experiments with lenses and prisms, his study of the nature of light and its reflection, and the refraction and decomposition of light into the colours of the rainbow.

    Yet, the truth is rather greyer; and I feel it important to point out that, certainly in the field of optics, Newton himself stood on the shoulders of a giant who lived 700 years earlier.

    For, without doubt, another great physicist, who is worthy of ranking up alongside Newton, is a scientist born in AD 965 in what is now Iraq who went by the name of al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRrehLDyZv0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU12EjqPBqQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dts8WxiLxbM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vchl7SolK0c

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2da5n6eIMw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DeRotXIIMk


    Interesting videos...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #1 - January 29, 2011, 11:06 AM

    To claim the optic discoveries of al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham in the name of Islam is somewhat dishonest.  It was his solitary confinement in prison for 10 years which gave him the opportunity to perform experiments in his cell.

    If anything his success is an argument for allowing people to work less and spend more time pursuing their curiosities, or that we should perhaps lock all clever people in solitary confinement for 10 years and see what they come up with.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #2 - January 29, 2011, 11:11 AM

    To claim the optic discoveries of al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham in the name of Islam is somewhat dishonest.  It was his solitary confinement in prison for 10 years which gave him the opportunity to perform experiments in his cell.

    If anything his success is an argument for allowing people to work less and spend more time pursuing their curiosities, or that we should perhaps lock all clever people in solitary confinement for 10 years and see what they come up with.

    Professor Jim Al-Khalili  is NOT an unreasonable person TheRationalizer., I am sure he will correct himself if we point out the errors in his BBC documentary videos..

    http://www.jimal-khalili.com/

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #3 - January 29, 2011, 11:11 AM

    You see, gents, it works like this:

    Whenever a Muslim does something bad, like blow himself and others up in the name of Allah, we're not supposed to judge Islam by what he has done. By contrast, when a Muslim makes a breakthrough discovery in a particular field, it was thanks to Islam that he did so.
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #4 - January 29, 2011, 11:21 AM

    well the fact that scientists happen to be muslim or christian or buddhist does not grant the religions authority to claim their discoveries as part of what the religion achieved. It's only Muslims who claim "Muslim inventions".... Being part of a religion has as much effect on a scientists achievements as the robes he wore at the day he/she got married or the the day he/she had their first shit in their lives.... The only thing that Religion can do, is to suppress scientific achievements it sees as a threat to it's dogma.

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #5 - January 29, 2011, 11:30 AM

    Professor Jim Al-Khalili  is NOT an unreasonable person TheRationalizer., I am sure he will correct himself if we point out the errors in his BBC documentary videos..

    http://www.jimal-khalili.com/


    In which video number does he say it, and at what time?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #6 - January 29, 2011, 11:53 AM

    You see, gents, it works like this:

    Whenever a Muslim does something bad, like blow himself and others up in the name of Allah, we're not supposed to judge Islam by what he has done. By contrast, when a Muslim makes a breakthrough discovery in a particular field, it was thanks to Islam that he did so.

    You are misreading the message Zeb.

    What the documentary really does is completely condemn the capacity of the prevalent interpretation of Islam for scientific discovery.

    How would you feel if the greatest achievement of 'your' civilization was confined to something achieved over 1000 years ago and that since then the scientific output of 'your' civilization was practically zero. Worse - it was completely trampled by dirty kuffar science and that 14 millions of Jewish pigs and monkeys won 180 Nobel prizes in science while 1.5 billion Muslims were only able to secure 3 (sometimes I wonder why Allah dislikes Muslims so much; at the very least he could supply enough food for those starving in Pakistan because of the last years floods - oh wait, Allah 'created' those floods in the first place). I am over-dramatising and oversimplifying things a bit here but I am sure you get the drift.

  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #7 - January 29, 2011, 12:47 PM

    You see, gents, it works like this:

    Whenever a Muslim does something bad, like blow himself and others up in the name of Allah, we're not supposed to judge Islam by what he has done. By contrast, when a Muslim makes a breakthrough discovery in a particular field, it was thanks to Islam that he did so.

    +1
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #8 - January 29, 2011, 12:59 PM

    I posted

    Quote
    To call this programme "Science and Islam" I think was misleading.

    There were people living under Islamic law who were Muslims and those who were not.  Naming this "Islam and science" implies that Islam was a contributing factor to these scientific discoveries.

    I would concede that after lots of war having an ultimate victor then brought peace, and from that peace came the ability for intelligent people to spend more time pondering their curiosities; but this peace could have come in many forms such as overall Jewish control, Christian control, Roman control, or just peace for the sake of peace. It was peace that helped bring about the environment to discover and not Islam itself.

    For example, your account of al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham describes someone who pondered the nature of light whilst being imprisoned for 10 years. It was his inquisitive mind, his intelligence, and his ability spend time thinking which lead him to his conclusions.

    I protest simply because people use programmes like this in order to convince others they have proof that their religion is the right way for humanity to live and that we as a species make so much progress when we follow their religious doctrine; when the reality is that religion stifles any scientific progress which could possibly endanger its teachings such as the Heliocentric solar system, and even today people of creationist religions being taught that the scientific theory of the evolution of species through natural selection is false.

    Criticism of the title over, I did thoroughly enjoy this programme.  I also enjoyed your programmes on Chemistry and Chaos.  I think you put across the subject material very well and choose fascinating subjects too.

    I hope there will be many more!


    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #9 - January 29, 2011, 01:01 PM

    In which video number does he say it, and at what time?

    lol..  what??  that  "He is NOT an unreasonable person"??  "Any person who says that by himself is automatically  Unreasonable person"

    You know I am of the opinion that  a guy who publishes all this http://www.jimal-khalili.com/publications  can not be an unreasonable person but he may be in error.   And he may not have thought out carefully on what he is saying.

    He is just trying to erudite the contribution of some Muslims to medieval science. But friends often pointed out to me  that the scientific contribution of people in medieval times who happened to be Muslims  for no fault their is  IN SPITE OF ISLAM and Not because of Islam.

    well let carefully transfer some  his video words and send him a critique pointing out errors in his assumptions.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #10 - January 29, 2011, 02:42 PM

    @Kenan

    You are misreading the message Zeb...


    I didn't write that in response to the doc, it was really just a general comment.
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #11 - January 29, 2011, 02:47 PM

    Yeah, I know.

    I was mostly taking the piss.

    In all seriousness though - the documentary can be interpreted as showing examples of the complete failure of prevalent interpretation of Islam in the field of science.
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #12 - January 29, 2011, 02:49 PM

    I think it is sad that of all his posts the one with the word "Islam" in its title is the only one which requires comment moderation.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #13 - January 29, 2011, 04:54 PM

    I like Jim. Isn't he a member of the Devil's party? I read somewhere that he was of the Eternally Damned. I never miss an opportunity to rub it in the face of any beardo who links to his videos. What does it say about your creed when the person whose videos you commend to me has deserted Islam for greener pastures?
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #14 - January 29, 2011, 05:09 PM

    I like Jim....................
     What does it say about your creed when the person whose videos you commend to me has deserted Islam for greener pastures?

     what are you talking Bison? who deserted Islam? and what is there in it to desert?  except desert

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #15 - January 29, 2011, 05:16 PM

    @Yez

    Quit flirting with me you overweight Desi or I will report you to the Admin with whom I have close relations because I do her sexual favours. You know precisely what I'm talking about. His Wikipedia entry: "While his father is a practicing Muslim father, Al-Khalili has described himself as an atheist."

  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #16 - January 29, 2011, 05:25 PM

    @Yez

    Quit flirting with me you overweight Desi or I will report you to the Admin with whom I have close relations because I do her sexual favours. Y


    Bison talk too much she will walk on you until you can't get up to type in to cemb.
    Quote
    you know precisely what I'm talking about. His Wikipedia entry:  "While his father is a practicing Muslim father, Al-Khalili has described himself as an atheist."

    errrr.. Every one in Islam says either they are  communists or atheists until they become caliphs after that they forget the basics and that goes  to Prophet of Islam also ...

    and what is up with silly PM's??  yes  I drink and drink hard bison


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #17 - January 29, 2011, 05:25 PM

    yeezevee, are you a Muslim then?  I don't really keep track of who believes what Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #18 - January 29, 2011, 05:29 PM

    yeezevee, are you a Muslim then?  I don't really keep track of who believes what Smiley

    No I am not....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #19 - April 28, 2014, 03:36 PM

    https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=wgU5Hyr1OME

    Quote
    British Humanist Association (BHA) President, physicist and broadcaster Professor Jim Al-Khalili gave the 2014 Voltaire Lecture at Conway Hall, London, on the theme of 'Lessons from the past: science and rationalism in medieval Islam.'

  • SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #20 - May 01, 2014, 05:42 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjvoWeqMA6I

    He has changed his position to it been "arabic science" which is alot more accurate
  • SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #21 - May 01, 2014, 06:13 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjvoWeqMA6I

    He has changed his position to it been "arabic science" which is alot more accurate

    He need to change MORE..

    There is no Arabic Science., African Science, American Science, Asian Science...

    It is just "Scientific investigations by Arab Scientists of Medieval times " ., Incidentally All those Scientific discoveries by those guys is NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM/Quran/hadith.,  

    ...in fact they have advanced science   in spite of Islam not because of Islam...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • SCIENCE & ISLAM _Professor Al-Khalili
     Reply #22 - October 23, 2014, 10:53 AM

    Quote
    Science is a body of systematized knowledge based on observation and experimentation. Religion is a set of beliefs based on faith. Scientific propositions are falsifiable and there is no such thing as a definite truth. Religious beliefs are believed to be true and definite and are not to be subjected to empirical findings. Science is the quest to satisfy human curiosity through rational methods of gathering information. It demands that “all” claims be backed by evidence and everything has to be open to criticism.

    Religion is the quest to control human beings through emotional intimidation. It demands total faith without any evidence to back its claims. Nothing is open to criticism, and questioning anything is considered evil. Moreover there is broad agreement over the definition of science whereas we still do not have a definition of religion acceptable to all. Hence science and religion are two distinct areas and should not be intermingled as both deal with fundamentally separate aspects of human experience and stay peaceful when each stays within its domain. Moreover, scientific results are entirely independent of religious or moral considerations.

    However, a very common trend among proponents of various religions is to assert that whatever science discovers today was already there in their religious texts hundreds of years ago.

    One may ask if that was so simple, why this fact was not brought on record “before” the scientific discovery and why the proponents of this view kept waiting till the empirical findings were made public. And if everything was already there in the sacred text why so much money and effort is being spent on research and development? Is it not cost effective to assemble a group of religious scholars who would simply go through the pages of the Holy Scriptures and sift out scientific knowledge out of the holy text? And if this is an ongoing process please let us know what scientific discoveries you forecast in the next five years.

    This trend is common to almost all religions. Jews find “signs” in the Old Testament, Christians have “indications” in the New Testament while Muslims’ holy book had already predicted everything what science was to find out later in the following 1400 year period, and thereafter.

    In most cases the sequence of events went like this. First, the religious orthodoxy showed its disdain and anger with the act of a “mortal” man “meddling” with the “affairs of God”. Even edicts were issued that whoever would believe in something “unholy” would commit a grave sin. Gradually when things settled down and the scientific advancement was accepted by the large majority, the clergy revisited and not only owned the scientific stride but also claimed that it was something which the holy book had already predicted. They would then refer to some obscure verse or a class of unrelated verses and then try to “decipher” a meaning out of the text which according to them was truly reflective of the “divine” character of their system of beliefs. At the same time they would also try to reinforce the belief of the “followers” by asserting that the holy text contained all the indications and should be interpreted in the true context. At times the emphasis is placed on a literal translation of the text, at another point the stress is on a figurative underlying meaning and yet on another occasion a far-fetched meaning is derived from obscure text. However, in many areas the conflict continues.

    Let us take the example of evolution where religious believers see the phenomenon as a threat to their fantastic narratives of man’s creation and would not tend to believe that God would resort to a process whereby lower animals would evolve into superior human beings, as this process would degrade their status as higher-order creatures. Secondly, belief in a self-sufficient system of processes negates the presence of a God who they believe controls every conceivable phenomenon. Hence, the theory of creationism i.e. the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent “Creator”, and did not gradually evolve is more comforting to the religious mind than the theory of evolution which attributes human evolution to self-sufficient natural processes such as natural selection and genetic drift.

    However, contrary to the theory of creationism, the fossil record does not show the existence of man or even primates or even a dog in the Permian period some 250 million years ago, which supports the evolutionary theory whereas if creationism had been true the fossil record should have shown simultaneous existence of man and dinosaurs. Secondly, if the evolutionary theory is scientifically valid, animals should have vestiges of genes no longer required whereas if creationism is true only that genetic makeup would be available which is useful to the organisms only in their present form. However, supportive of the evolutionary theory we find genes in chickens for making teeth and genes in humans for making a tail; traits no longer required by the organism in its present form. Thirdly, there are no evolutionary gaps between the genetic make-up of a dinosaur and a bird as birds evolved from dinosaurs, thus verifying the evolutionary theory.

    Similarly, to quote another example Judaism, Christianity and Islam had all lent support to the geocentric model, as the Bible and the Quran are explicitly geocentric. Geo-centrism holds that the Earth is the center of the universe. All the religions subscribed to this world -view because it was easier to reconcile with the central idea that humans were the crowning glory of creation.

    It is also interesting to note that modern Astrology is still based on a geocentric world-view. The reasoning of its supporters has nothing to do with remaining loyal to tradition or ignoring scientific discoveries but the simple fact that human experience of the cosmos is literally geocentric – all celestial events are observed from Earth. The individual’s position is at the centre of a horoscope with the planets rotating around this centre.

    However, in total negation of Holy Scriptures, empirical findings have established and today all scientists agree that there is no center or otherwise special position in the universe, let alone for a small planet called Earth.
    A century ago, astronomers thought the universe stretched about 3,600 light years from Earth. Today, astronomers have scientific evidence that the universe is at least 13.7 billion years old and contains hundreds of billions of galaxies and is expanding outwards. The Earth is somewhere on the periphery of this expansion.
    While narrating the Apollo landing on the moon in the year 1969, a religious scholar told the audience that Islam had predicted the event 1400 years ago. When asked how, the reply was ‘alif laam meem’, Apollo lands on moon

    And that is from http://realisticapproach.org/

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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