UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #60 - January 12, 2011, 05:27 AM

Quote from: FreeSoul007
I don't think the American government cared what the Afghani's were fighting for, as long as they whooped the Soviet's ass's...that's all that mattered.

I would agree with that. The US political right were not in the slightest bit concerned that the victorious "freedom fighters" gang raped Afghan women who had taken advantage of the freedom under the Soviets not to wear burkas and their naming of the "liberated" country the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. That Reagan was serious when he compared these brutes to the US founding fathers I have no doubt

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #61 - January 12, 2011, 05:34 AM

Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 11, 2011, 06:42 AM
Correction. Read what i written above. Many people confuse the Mujahideen with the Taliban. Taliban was created after the war with half of it's member's and main commander's being veterans of the Afghan/Soviet war, the other half being orphan's of the war. The Taliban came in and over-ran the warlord's that was fighting each other for power.

I am not confusing the anti-soviet Mujahideen with the later Taliban. I am merely highlighting that Islamic "extremism" in Afghanistan did not begin with the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #62 - January 13, 2011, 05:27 AM

Quote from: Q-Man on January 11, 2011, 08:24 PM
Were the Red Army and PDPA angels? Certainly not-- they had a lot of blood on their hands, but they were very clearly the lesser of two evils. If I were a woman in Afghanistan in 1980 who wanted to someday go to university, have a job, wear a damn skirt, and not be forced into an arranged marriage, there wouldn't be any doubt as to which side I'd be hoping won the war. It's a no-brainer really.

None of this would have happened if ignorant savages hadn't decided to rebel against some basic progressive reforms (ending peonage, basic women's rights, lowering dowry prices, universal education, etc.) implemented by the PDPA, and the US, UK and Pakistanis supporting these fucking bastards. That hadn't happened there would have never been a large-scale or long-term Soviet intervention, may not have been a direct military intervention by the USSR at all-- millions of lives would have been saved and millions of women would have had a path out of slavery. You want someone to blame for that shit? Blame your former Muslim "brothers"

This is the first time I can (almost) fully agree with what you've said. Very well put.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #63 - January 13, 2011, 04:04 PM

I notice you edited out the "imperialist sponsors" part-- I guess the UK and US were blameless, huh?

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #64 - January 14, 2011, 02:16 AM

No, but I don't think their actions were motivated by imperialism, rather they were motivated by the cold war / trying to limit soviet union's influence. Had they been motivated by imperialism they wouldn't have let the taliban form their own government, rather they would've tried to occupy afghanistan and form their own government there.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #65 - January 14, 2011, 03:19 AM

Imperialism isn't limited to territorial expansion. I'd explain further, but you never seem to get anything, so why bother?

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #66 - January 14, 2011, 03:24 AM

Yea, if you'd want me to unconditionally agree with what you say I'd say you shouldn't bother

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #67 - January 14, 2011, 03:28 AM

It's not that, it's that you're hopelessly ignorant on many political/social matters but entirely incapable of withholding your opinion until you've learned more, nor are you capable of changing your opinion once the facts are presented to you. Billy and I disagree all the fuckin time, but billy knows his shit, which means debating with him is not an incredibly frustrating task like it is with you.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #68 - January 14, 2011, 03:35 AM

Yea, that's not accurate, I change my opinions all the time when facts are presented to me. I can only guess that you're referring to our discussion on the israel thread, and about that I would say that you're the one who is hopelessly ignorant about the society and culture of an islamic state. You think that giving the people an islamic state would 'liberate' them, whereas you've never lived in an islamic state, nor do you seem to know much about them.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #69 - January 14, 2011, 03:38 AM

Quote from: donatelo on January 14, 2011, 03:35 AM
You think that giving the people an islamic state would 'liberate' them

Prove it. Such a sentiment, explicitly or implicitly, never came from my keyboard. You conjured it in your own demented mind.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #70 - January 14, 2011, 03:45 AM

That's what it sounded like. People are being oppressed, occupied, etc. Should be able to form an islamic state so they can get free.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #71 - January 14, 2011, 03:48 AM

That's what it sounded like to you because you're dim. I never said anything even remotely resembling that.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #72 - January 14, 2011, 03:48 AM

Nah he said being 'liberated' by the Russian army would be better than being 'liberated' by the eventual creation of the allied involvement, the Taliban.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #73 - January 14, 2011, 03:52 AM

Deusvult, donatelo's talking about an entirely different thread where we were discussing Israel/Palestine and I objected to donatelo's desire to deny the Palestinians' self-determination rights just because they might create an Islamic state-- and because he's stupid, he thinks this is equivalent to me saying that having an Islamic state would liberate the Palestinians.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #74 - January 14, 2011, 03:53 AM

Then why isn't you guy's ( ya'lls) love spat over there? I'm talking to you Donatello

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #75 - January 14, 2011, 03:55 AM

I dunno. I'm just explaining to him that I'm not gonna bother to explain why imperialism isn't simply territorial conquest because he's likely too stupid to get it, and maybe for some reason that offended him.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #76 - January 14, 2011, 03:58 AM

Quote from: Q-Man on January 14, 2011, 03:48 AM
That's what it sounded like to you because you're dim. I never said anything even remotely resembling that.

Quote from: Q-Man on January 14, 2011, 03:52 AM
Deusvult, donatelo's talking about an entirely different thread where we were discussing Israel/Palestine and I objected to donatelo's desire to deny the Palestinians' self-determination rights just because they might create an Islamic state-- and because he's stupid, he thinks this is equivalent to me saying that having an Islamic state would liberate the Palestinians.

How old are you really, dude? It seems like whenever someone disagrees with you, you turn into a little crybaby jabbing random insults at the other person because you don't have any counterargument. Whatever your reasons are for the support of the creation of an islamic state, your knowledge about islamic states is pathetic.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #77 - January 14, 2011, 03:59 AM

Quote from: deusvult on January 14, 2011, 03:53 AM
Then why isn't you guy's ( ya'lls) love spat over there? I'm talking to you Donatello

What are you asking mate?

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #78 - January 14, 2011, 04:02 AM

Quote from: donatelo on January 14, 2011, 03:58 AM
How old are you really, dude? It seems like whenever someone disagrees with you, you turn into a little crybaby jabbing random insults at the other person because you don't have any counterargument. Whatever your reasons are for the support of the creation of an islamic state, your knowledge about islamic states is pathetic.

Got plenty of counterargument:

1. I never said what you claimed or even implied it.

2. See point 1. above.

But you're too dim to even grasp this simple concept.

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #79 - January 14, 2011, 04:07 AM

And what do you know about islamic states which makes you think you're qualified to argue in support of one being created?

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Re: UK discussed plans to help mujahideen weeks after Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
Reply #80 - January 14, 2011, 04:11 AM

God you're dumb. How many times do I have to tell you I don't support the creation of an Islamic state for you to get that through your thick skull? I never said anything like that. You obviously just have a malfunctioning brain that led you to believe that was my position.

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