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 Topic: The Astronomy Thread

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  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #120 - July 18, 2011, 05:09 PM

    What happened to this thread someone post here god damn it  finmad

    Also i am so fucking pissed beacuse people are acctuly talking about cancleing james web space telescope.




    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #121 - July 18, 2011, 05:45 PM

    Wow, a lot has been going on in this thread since I last looked. I'll try to catch up by watching the videos above (including Yezeevee's possible tangent into the parallel universe he sometimes resides in)...
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #122 - July 18, 2011, 09:53 PM

    Sceptic mate: if you havent done so already, don't buy Simon Singh's book. I was given it as a birthday present and I found it to be disappointingly basic and somewhat patronising. I understand that 'popular science' is supposedly for the non-scientific, but Mr Singh has taken that to imply that his potential readership consists of non-scientific 8 year-olds. In fact, the book pisses me off so much that I'd rather not have it on my bookshelf - PM me your address and I'll send you it, just to remove your curiosity?

    Yezeevee: thanks. Your posts in here were markedly on-topic. I loved those videos.

    J, my love, where do I start? In fact, I'll start some other day, perhaps tomorrow? My wife is watching me like a hawk tonight, and she can sense that I am writing to someone that I love a thousandfold more than I do her, so it would be unfair of me to continue. I'll write you tomorrow, I promise mate x
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #123 - July 19, 2011, 02:44 PM

    What happened to this thread someone post here god damn it  finmad

    I stopped because I was the only one actively posting here with no replies, it started to feel like I was talking to myself.

    Also i am so fucking pissed beacuse people are acctuly talking about cancleing james web space telescope.

    I don't think they will cancel it, they will have to amend the bill to allow funding for the JWST. Most of the instruments have been manufactured, it's only a matter of assembling them now, the hard bit is done. If they cancel it now, they would be throwing billions of dollars away, the cost of finishing the JWST is far less than what has gone into development already.

    JWST is the future of astronomy, we are almost reaching the limit of what we can discover with the instruments we have right now, the JWST will open up a new realm, one which has never been seen before. And there's so much that this telescope can do, it can look at the formation of the first stars and the first galaxies, it can look at exoplanets orbiting their parent star, its spectroscopes are so sensitive that it can look at the atmospheres of small exoplanets and measure the chemical composition of those exoplanets, and the list goes on. If we want to take our understanding of the universe to the next level any time soon, we need the JWST.

    I am really interested in the spectrosopical capabilities of this telescope, it can directly study the atmospheres of exoplanets, it can help us find and study Earth 2.0, and it's just one of the things it can do. That's how epic the JWST is!
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #124 - July 19, 2011, 09:58 PM

    Hey J, I’ve spanked the monkey since I last posted here, and can now talk to you again without being overcome with lust...  Anyways, I read what you’ve posted since I last talked to you and, as always, I do have a few questions for you:

    The discovery of all of these additional Jupiter-mass planets, along with the discovery of the subsurface ocean underneath the icy surface of Enceladus, seems to increase the possibility of life out there. In your opinion, have the odds improved massively because of these findings, or are they pretty much unaffected by these new discoveries? I remember reading about the Drake equation, which can be used to estimate the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Surely these findings will affect the parameters within that equation, and therefore our current estimates of exactly how much life there could be out there (if there is any at all)?

    My second question to you is regarding the JWST you talk about. I had no idea that it would outperform the Hubble so extensively. I wonder, is there a physical limit to how close we could possibly go to the Big Bang with these devices? If not with the JWST, maybe in the future we can get really close to the birth of our universe? Or will aspects of the early universe, such as the rapid inflation that occurred in its early life, prevent us from ever getting too close to the really big questions? Then again, will there even be anything to see beyond the formation of the first stars, because everything will simply be too small to detect before these stars came along?

    I have a feeling that some of the questions above may seem really daft. If that’s the case, I apologise mate; I feel particularly slow today.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #125 - July 19, 2011, 10:16 PM

    Hey J, I’ve spanked the monkey since I last posted here, and can now talk to you again without being overcome with lust...  Anyways, I read what you’ve posted since I last talked spoke to you and, as always, I do have a few questions for you:

    The discovery of all of these additional Jupiter-mass planets, along with the discovery of the subsurface ocean underneath the icy surface of Enceladus, seems to increase the possibility of life out there. In your opinion, have the odds improved massively because of these findings, or are they pretty much unaffected by these new discoveries? I remember reading about the Drake equation, which can be used to estimate the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Surely these findings will affect the parameters within that equation, and therefore our current estimates of exactly how much life there could be out there (if there is any at all)?

    My second question to you is regarding the JWST you talk about. I had no idea that it would outperform the Hubble so extensively. I wonder, is there a physical limit to how close we could possibly go to the Big Bang with these devices? If not with the JWST, maybe in the future we can get really close to the birth of our universe? Or will aspects of the early universe, such as the rapid inflation that occurred in its early life, prevent us from ever getting too close to the really big questions? Then again, will there even be anything to see beyond the formation of the first stars, because everything will simply be too small to detect before these stars came along?

    I have a feeling that some of the questions above may seem really daft. If that’s the case, I apologise mate; I feel particularly slow today.



    Awwww 001_wub
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #126 - July 19, 2011, 10:27 PM

    Lol Smiley
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #127 - July 20, 2011, 06:07 AM

    Hey J, I’ve spanked the monkey since I last posted here, and can now talk to you again without being overcome with lust...  Anyways, I read what you’ve posted since I last talked to you and, as always, I do have a few questions for you:

    The discovery of all of these additional Jupiter-mass planets, along with the discovery of the subsurface ocean underneath the icy surface of Enceladus, seems to increase the possibility of life out there. In your opinion, have the odds improved massively because of these findings, or are they pretty much unaffected by these new discoveries? I remember reading about the Drake equation, which can be used to estimate the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Surely these findings will affect the parameters within that equation, and therefore our current estimates of exactly how much life there could be out there (if there is any at all)?


    It definitely increases the odds of life out there. Exomoons are more likely to be habitable than all of these gas giants we're finding everywhere, and like many other things, JWST can answer this questions for us, it is capable of discovering exomoons. Before the discovery of these exoplanets and habitable moons, all we had were good estimates. All of these discoveries have given us realistic parameters to work with instead of just making estimates in the dark, we can use the data we have to get more accurate answers, and with all the data we've gathered so far, the odds of ET life are looking very good. And these odds are based on evidence rather than guesstimates, that's the really exciting thing about it.

    The Drake equation deals with giving us an estimate on how many intelligent civilizations might be out there, not just microbial life. And yes, we can add these exomoons in the ne parameter which is the number of bodies in a solar system where life can exist, the value used in the original equation is 2, with the exomoons in mind we can set the value to 3 or even 4. In the original equation, this has a major impact, the original equation predicts that there are around 10 intelligent civilizations in our galaxy,  by changing the value of ne from 2 to 4, it predicts that there might be 20 intelligent civilizations out there.

    The addition of these exomoons increases the possibility microbial life tremendously, but not intelligent alien life predicted by the Drake equation.

    My second question to you is regarding the JWST you talk about. I had no idea that it would outperform the Hubble so extensively. I wonder, is there a physical limit to how close we could possibly go to the Big Bang with these devices? If not with the JWST, maybe in the future we can get really close to the birth of our universe? Or will aspects of the early universe, such as the rapid inflation that occurred in its early life, prevent us from ever getting too close to the really big questions? Then again, will there even be anything to see beyond the formation of the first stars, because everything will simply be too small to detect before these stars came along?

    Yes, there is something we can see before the formation of the first stars, it's the radiation from the Big Bang, it looks like this.



    Five minutes after the Big Bang, the universe was very hot, dense, filled with plasma and radiation (photons). It took the universe 380,000 years to expand and cool enough to form the first neutral atoms and it took those neutral atoms 50 million years to form the first stars. When the stable neutral atoms formed, the universe was big and cool enough to allow the photons left over from the Big Bang to uniformly spread out in space. We can see these photons from the Big Bang, it's called the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMB), but it's also the furthest we can see. The CMB acts like a curtain which prevents us from seeing any further, before it the universe is completely opaque. We've learnt so much from it about the structure and the conditions of the early universe, it's virtually a photograph of the Big Bang taken minutes after it was born. You can kinda see it, too. A small part of the static you see on the TV is a signal from the CMB.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #128 - July 20, 2011, 06:19 PM

    Cheers J. 20 civilisations within our galaxy is hardly Star Trek level of intelligent life to one day shoot at greet, but I suppose it gives humankind something to one day look forward to. Providing, of course, we can one day find a way to travel at speeds faster than our current understanding of physics allows.

    *Btw, does it piss you off J, that you weren't born a few millenia from now instead? It pisses me off. Because, by then, there is every chance that some of the things that we can only speculate at (such as intelligent life outside Earth), will be known for sure. But then again, there probably will always be bigger and bigger questions, so I suppose we need to be grateful that we've come along after so many of the questions regarding our own planet and solar system have been answered.*

    About your answer to the question about JWST question: that really was a silly question of me to ask, considering I already knew about the background radiation, which turned out to be the biggest affirmation regarding the Big Bang. Since you were kind enough to answer, can I just ask this also: this new telescope will allow us to see the formation of the first stars right? How many light years is that further than Hubble? I remember reading that Hubble managed to detect the first Quasars? Then again, my mind is like a fucking sieve, so I'm not sure I remember that right.

  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #129 - July 20, 2011, 08:58 PM

    *Btw, does it piss you off J, that you weren't born a few millenia from now instead? It pisses me off. Because, by then, there is every chance that some of the things that we can only speculate at (such as intelligent life outside Earth), will be known for sure. But then again, there probably will always be bigger and bigger questions, so I suppose we need to be grateful that we've come along after so many of the questions regarding our own planet and solar system have been answered.*

    No, it doesn't piss me off, I think we live in a very special and exciting time. This is a moment in our history, when for the first time we're capable of finding other worlds, we're actually seeing worlds outside of our solar system, and exploring them from the comfort of our home. It's a unique sense of adventure, just 20 years ago we didn't even know if planets orbited stars outside of the solar system, and now we've found more than a thousand of them.

    About your answer to the question about JWST question: that really was a silly question of me to ask, considering I already knew about the background radiation, which turned out to be the biggest affirmation regarding the Big Bang. Since you were kind enough to answer, can I just ask this also: this new telescope will allow us to see the formation of the first stars right? How many light years is that further than Hubble? I remember reading that Hubble managed to detect the first Quasars? Then again, my mind is like a fucking sieve, so I'm not sure I remember that right.

    The furthest galaxy seen by the HST is UDFj-39546284, it's around 13.2 billion light years away, it's found in the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field image. This new deep field image was taken in infrared after last servicing mission. The JWST which is an infrared telescope, is going to see around 400 million light years further than the HST, reaching the very limit of what we can see at 13.6ish billion light years away. It's thought that the very first stars started to form 100 million years after the Big Bang which puts them at 13.6 billion light years away right at the limit of what the JWST can see, and JWST's resolution is three times better than the HST. The JWST will be able to see that part of the universe with unprecedented detail, it will allow us to study a part of the universe which has never been seen before with amazing clarity.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #130 - July 20, 2011, 09:42 PM

    Thanks bro, very informative, as always.

    The article above about the furthest object detected by Hubble alludes to the fact that if we could see a little further back still, we would see some dramatic changes taking place in the early universe. From what you've said, JW will do exactly that. So, apart from the formation of the first stars, what dramatic changes can we expect to see?

    You're right, we do live in exciting times. But we have to wait like at least 5 years for the JW, and then some time more, before results filter through to us. Even a manned mission to Mars may not happen in my time. And I want so, so many more answers before I sign off. I want fast-forward. I want us to travel across our galaxy. I want to know exactly what other lifeforms there are out there, what other worlds. I want us to know what they know. Hell, I want us to use wormholes, or whatever it fucking takes, and even visit other galaxies. I want what Asimov and Clarke have described so eloquently, to have actually have happened already... So, it does piss me off that I won't see that. The greatest adventures are still to come, and I am so jealous of the generations that will face those fucking adventures.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #131 - July 21, 2011, 02:26 AM

    Thanks bro, very informative, as always.

    The article above about the furthest object detected by Hubble alludes to the fact that if we could see a little further back still, we would see some dramatic changes taking place in the early universe. From what you've said, JW will do exactly that. So, apart from the formation of the first stars, what dramatic changes can we expect to see?

    Well, there would be lots to see, formation of the first giant molecular clouds and their evolution, the formation and the evolution of early galaxies, how the early galaxies interact with each other, how supermassive black holes interact with early galaxies, these are just a few things the list goes on. Foremost, this will test our current ideas and present new information which will help us answer old questions and pose new ones. There may be a lot there which might surprise us, the universe has a knack for doing just that.


    You're right, we do live in exciting times. But we have to wait like at least 5 years for the JW, and then some time more, before results filter through to us. Even a manned mission to Mars may not happen in my time. And I want so, so many more answers before I sign off. I want fast-forward. I want us to travel across our galaxy. I want to know exactly what other lifeforms there are out there, what other worlds. I want us to know what they know. Hell, I want us to use wormholes, or whatever it fucking takes, and even visit other galaxies. I want what Asimov and Clarke have described so eloquently, to have actually have happened already... So, it does piss me off that I won't see that. The greatest adventures are still to come, and I am so jealous of the generations that will face those fucking adventures.

    It could be possible that you're a superior being to them, and you have to be the one teaching them.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #132 - July 21, 2011, 02:46 PM

    ^^ No chance of that. I have nothing to teach any species that have already mastered the art of peeling a banana... But thanks for the compliment (and for the astronomy class) Afro
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #133 - July 22, 2011, 11:39 AM

    No problem, I love discussing astronomy. What you said reminded me of a cartoon I watched as a kid, have a look.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7cwWoK0gz4
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #134 - July 22, 2011, 12:27 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy  Smiley

    I'm potty training my son at the moment, so you don't get how funny I find that.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #135 - July 22, 2011, 12:38 PM

    Hope you don't end up drowning like poor Prometheus.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #136 - August 01, 2011, 12:38 AM

    @jay i'll try to post more often here  =o.

    @musivore no problem mate i can get it from the local library thanks though Cheesy




    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #137 - August 01, 2011, 12:45 AM

    @jay i'll try to post more often here  =o.


    Give me incentive and I will.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #138 - March 26, 2012, 02:51 PM

    http://www.eso.org/public/archives/images/publicationjpg/eso1213a.jpg

    So, this image was posted a few days ago, it is an amazing picture. They pointed a telescope at an empty region of the sky, and let it observe it for 55 hours. Almost every point of light in this picture is a galaxy, apart from a few foreground stars. You might have seen a deep field image before which was taken with Hubble it has around 10,000 galaxies in it. This picture taken with VISTA has almost 200,000 galaxies in it! It doesn't even cover the whole sky, it's just a small region as big as 8 full moons in the sky.

    The sheer scale of the universe is hard to grasp, and it blows me away every time I think about it.

    ETA: Having issues with embedding the picture.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #139 - April 13, 2012, 07:21 AM

    What happened to this thread someone post here god damn ifinmad
     

    ..

    Hmm..


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=JvdL3R7fDL4


    that is a good one to watch

    Freedom of Expression is a Fundamental Right  
    Release The bloggers from Jails.  Protect The Bloggers from  Baboons
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #140 - April 17, 2012, 01:01 AM

    http://www.eso.org/public/archives/images/publicationjpg/eso1213a.jpg

    So, this image was posted a few days ago, it is an amazing picture. They pointed a telescope at an empty region of the sky, and let it observe it for 55 hours. Almost every point of light in this picture is a galaxy, apart from a few foreground stars. You might have seen a deep field image before which was taken with Hubble it has around 10,000 galaxies in it. This picture taken with VISTA has almost 200,000 galaxies in it! It doesn't even cover the whole sky, it's just a small region as big as 8 full moons in the sky.

    The sheer scale of the universe is hard to grasp, and it blows me away every time I think about it.

    ETA: Having issues with embedding the picture.


    I had seen the one taken by Hubble, but not this one! Mind-blown. Thanks for sharing. Smiley

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #141 - May 23, 2012, 04:53 PM

    Saturn is one of the most amazing place in the Solar System, it's majestically beautiful and it has the most interesting set of moons around. The Cassini mission was launched back in 1997, and it reached Saturn in 2004.  Since then, it's been a key that's unlocked many mysteries of the ringed planet, it's made new discoveries, the most notable being the the discovery of water plumes coming from Enceladus' geysers.

    Here's a nice time lapse made from pictures taken by Cassini over the 8 year period, it's quite eerie and it shows how alien this environment really is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=srLlka2C7FM
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #142 - May 23, 2012, 11:58 PM

    Enceladus with its ice plumes/geysers is interesting.
    Apparently:
    Quote from: wikipedia
    In May 2011 NASA scientists at an Enceladus Focus Group Conference reported that Enceladus "is emerging as the most habitable spot beyond Earth in the Solar System for life as we know it"


    Can't wait till they discover more about this little moon.

    Also, I love how the moons of Saturn distort its rings (and create a slight wave) due to their gravity as they go around.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #143 - May 24, 2012, 12:00 AM

    I think Astronomy should be taught in schools as the fourth science alongside biology chemistry and fizziks


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #144 - May 24, 2012, 05:47 AM

    How dare you question the science curriculum orthodoxy. Heretic!!!
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #145 - May 24, 2012, 05:58 AM

    I think Astronomy should be taught in schools as the fourth science alongside biology chemistry and fizziks




    I always loved fizziks bestest. All those sparkling quarks.... Yummers!

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #146 - May 24, 2012, 06:00 AM

    Chemistry was cool because you could blow stuff up. You can blow stuff up with physics too, but they wouldn't let us play with that.

    It doesn't matter if the glass is half empty or half full. There is clearly room for more vodka.
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #147 - May 24, 2012, 07:15 AM

    I remember in chemistry class in high school once, my friends and I were playing with the chemicals when we were supposed to be doing an experiment, and we were the only ones who got the right result. Grin

    "Everyone must leave something behind when he dies, my grandfather said. A child or a book or a painting or a house or a wall built or a pair of shoes made. Or a garden planted. Something your hand touched some way so your soul has somewhere to go when you die..." - Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #148 - May 24, 2012, 04:19 PM

    Enceladus with its ice plumes/geysers is interesting.
    Apparently:
    Can't wait till they discover more about this little moon.

    Also, I love how the moons of Saturn distort its rings (and create a slight wave) due to their gravity as they go around.


    Thinking about Enceladus makes me so wet!  mysmilie_977

    I love the those ripples, too! It's the F-ring, it's the outermost ring.



  • Re: The Astronomy Thread
     Reply #149 - May 25, 2012, 05:11 AM

    I think Astronomy should be taught in schools as the fourth science alongside biology chemistry and fizziks



    No.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
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