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 Topic: Questionable Quranic numerology claims

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  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #30 - August 21, 2010, 01:07 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on August 21, 2010, 12:12 PM
    The Solar year was 365 days long before Gregory. I think the Arabs even used to add 'leap months' to calibrate their lunar calendar with the solar one, and Mo forbade this 'cos he likes playing spoilsport.

    If you mean the 'miracle' that the words man and woman are mentioned 23 times each, then that's bull too. I saw it debunked by a Muslim scholar, no less.


    Yeah that's what I meant.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #31 - August 21, 2010, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on August 21, 2010, 12:59 PM
    Because it takes 365 days for the Earth to rotate 360 degrees around the Sun.  It's a physical fact independent of man made calendars.


    Actually it takes more like 365.25 days. That's why we have leap years.

    But 365.25 is just a rounded number, so we have to compensate a little further. Every 25th leap year is cancelled, unless it is a 100th leap year in which case it is not cancelled.  Afro

    Do not the unbelievers see the fingerprints of divine creation and order in the creation???
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #32 - August 21, 2010, 05:45 PM
    Quote from: TheLastKnight on August 21, 2010, 01:22 PM
    Actually it takes more like 365.25 days. That's why we have leap years.


    Actually it is more like 365.256360417 days.


    Quote from: TheLastKnight on August 21, 2010, 01:22 PM
    But 365.25 is just a rounded number


    And so is 365 you nitpicking fekwit ;-)


    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #33 - August 21, 2010, 06:27 PM
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you love me.  Wink
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #34 - August 22, 2010, 11:52 AM
    Trying to find the 12 months.

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search.cgi?search_text=shahr&search_type=Exact+String&transliteration=1&B1=Search

    I used the transliteration search as a starting point this time. Smiley

    [002:185] month x2
    [002:194] month x2
    [002:217] month
    [005:002] month
    [034:012] month x2

    [004:092] months
    [005:097] months
    [009:036] months x2
    [046:015] months
    [058:004] months
    [065:004] months
    [097:003] months

    I found two 'months' in 9:36 even though the transliteration search only said there was one.
    Did a little more searching and I found more references to plural 'months'.

    I have a question:
    What are the singular and plural transliteration forms of 'shahr' that I should search for?
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #35 - August 22, 2010, 12:11 PM
    Man, even if it did say month twelve times, who would even care? Its hardly as impressive as 'day' appearing 365 times.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #36 - August 22, 2010, 01:25 PM
    I'm debunking the numerology claims.

    Didn't know I needed your approval for that.
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #37 - August 22, 2010, 01:53 PM
    I didnt say you did, I just meant that it would be a shit miracle anyway, so it wouldnt matter if it were true or not
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #38 - August 22, 2010, 04:10 PM
    Hehe. Well, the numerology claims are really annoying exactly because they are so crap, yet they rank among those I see most often about how awesome the Quran is. I want to see exactly how many of them are true and not. I have a sneaking suspicion most of them are complete bollocks.

    Would be nice to throw that list into the face of anyone who makes those claims in the future.  Headsman
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #39 - August 22, 2010, 05:13 PM
    There are a few interesting numerical coincidences in it, but thats normal for any book, but there are genuine numerical patterns to do with the opening letters of some of the surahs and they do in fact revolve around the number 19 in some casesNevertheless, they do not necessitate any miracle to explain them.And when I talk to muslims about this kind of thing they never bring up numerology, its always the so-called scientific miracles
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #40 - August 23, 2010, 01:48 PM
    Quote from: Abood on August 20, 2010, 03:34 PM
    Grin

    We'll get there somehow.

    Inshallah.  sheikh
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #41 - August 23, 2010, 03:56 PM
    Quote from: olweasel on August 23, 2010, 01:48 PM
    Inshallah.  sheikh


    Insha Ana Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #42 - August 23, 2010, 05:32 PM
    Anna? Who tf is Anna?  whistling2
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  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #43 - August 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 23, 2010, 05:32 PM
    Anna? Who tf is Anna?  whistling2


    It means 'me/I' in Arabic, unless I have been too much of a fuckwit to realise that you're pulling his leg.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #44 - August 23, 2010, 06:47 PM
    its a reference to a song,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eIS5f5qx9A
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  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #45 - August 26, 2010, 09:26 AM
    Okay, as promised I wanted to check that 'yawma' on it's own doesn't appear exactly 365 times on it's own.
    Transliteration search for 'yawma' returned:

    The number of Noble Verses returned: 293

    The number of text-occurrences: 315

    From those I counted 16 'yawman', so a total of 299 'yawma'. That is not 365. BUSTED!

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search.cgi?search_text=yawma&search_type=Exact+String&transliteration=1&B1=Search
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #46 - August 26, 2010, 09:28 AM
    Quote from: TheLastKnight on August 26, 2010, 09:26 AM
    BUSTED!


    Write to the Islamic website making the claim.  Tell them it is very compelling evidence for Allah and ask if they could provide a list of verses.  When they write back with the list reply

    "What about this one in verse X?" Cheesy
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #47 - August 26, 2010, 09:37 AM
    There are potential problems with search engines for the Qur'an that people should keep in mind:

    * AFAIK there's no file available of the Arabic original, that's official or that has been authenticated by a major religious authority.
    * The searching algorithm may be trivial or may have bugs and can therefore lead to results that are not 100% accurate.
    * Searching in transliterations may also return incorrect results, because there is no guarantee that the text is perfectly transliterated. Also the algorithm may not really find all occurrences of a term in the text, because the word can vary due to grammatical rules.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #48 - August 26, 2010, 09:43 AM
    I began a list a few posts ago where I searched for the word 'day' in Pickthall and Yusuf Ali's translations, looked them up at quran.com to find 'yawma' or variations in the transliteration in addition to finding the "smiling guy with glasses" in the Arabic text.

    I double checked my list with the search results TheRationalizer provided, and the search checked out for all I had found. Based on that I think it is pretty accurate.
    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #49 - August 26, 2010, 09:46 AM
    Ask the claimant for the list, the burdon of proof is on them.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #50 - January 14, 2011, 04:26 AM
    so.... even if the quran does mention the word "day" 365 times, how come there are only about 355 days in the Islamic calendar? i know that it uses the lunar calendar but even then what would be the point of boasting the 365 times said word?


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #51 - January 14, 2011, 04:34 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on January 14, 2011, 04:26 AM
    so.... even if the quran does mention the word "day" 365 times, how come there are only about 355 days in the Islamic calendar? i know that it uses the lunar calendar but even then what would be the point of boasting the 365 times said word?

    Islamic intellectuals  have simple answer for that., "Nothing in Islam and nothing what Muslims did and do after the death of prophet of Islam is anything to do with Quran"
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #52 - January 14, 2011, 04:43 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on January 14, 2011, 04:26 AM
    so.... even if the quran does mention the word "day" 365 times, how come there are only about 355 days in the Islamic calendar? i know that it uses the lunar calendar but even then what would be the point of boasting the 365 times said word?


    There are 365 days in a sidereal year.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #53 - January 14, 2011, 04:57 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on January 14, 2011, 04:43 AM
    There are 365 days in a sidereal year.

    well that is my good friend Edip Yuksel's numerology game., http://www.submission.org/miracle/endless.html    but he doesn't know how to count.

    please read these links on that silly number game and numerical miracles of 19ers.org Rashid Khalifa

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Religions/Numerics/365hoax.html
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Religions/Numerics/365hoax-r.html
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Religions/Numerics/365hoax-a.html
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #54 - January 14, 2011, 05:22 AM
    http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=ywm#(1:4:2)

    A quick glance looks like 395 to me.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #55 - January 14, 2011, 05:29 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on January 14, 2011, 05:22 AM
    http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=ywm#(1:4:2)

    A quick glance looks like 395 to me.

    well  you don't count the way they count at http://www.submission.org/miracle/endless.html
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #56 - January 14, 2011, 05:35 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on January 14, 2011, 05:29 AM
    well  you don't count the way they count at http://www.submission.org/miracle/endless.html


    What, without bias? :-)
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #57 - January 14, 2011, 05:53 AM
    if Muslims "allready" knew that the year has 365 days, why the hell do they continue using a non valid calendar which goes back around 2 weeks every year?

    I know that the tradition of following the moon as a reference is much easier, and does not have any meaningful disadvantage to the sun based calendar for non agricultural / hot or cold climate societies... But for us who live in different geographical zones, where seasons do have an impact, such a calendar would make it impossible to know when to sow the seeds of a certain agricultural product....

    Not everybody is a camel/goat herding nomad.....
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 12:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #58 - January 14, 2011, 06:12 AM
    I think we should use similar numerology claims to prove silly things.  e.g. - the word "vagina" appears X times, X * 19 is Y, Muhammad was born in the year Y, therefore...

    I recently did one to help some guy get over the idea that these numerology claims mean anything.  It went like this...

    If your read Ibn Kathir on Sura 74 "Oh you enveloped in Garments" it explains how Muhammad ran from the cave and covered himself with a cloth to hide from Gabriel, so the opening of 74 is referring directly to Muhammad.

    If you assign each letter of the alphabet a value, A=74, B=75, etc and then add up the letters for Muhammad you get a total of 666.  This is a clear sign to people of western cultures that Muhammad is in fact the anti-Christ.  If you look at 7:4 this also describes the kind of actions Muhammad encouraged his followers to execute during his leadership.

    Quran 7:4 "How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them"

    Therefore Muhammad is evil.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Questionable Quranic numerology claims
     Reply #59 - January 14, 2011, 11:00 AM
    Yes, you're right - ive forwarded it to a guy who's obsessed with Islamic numerology I happen to know.

    It should be possible to compute it. 

    Start of with any proposition e.g.  Muhammed is satan, Hinduism is true, There is more than one god, Quran is manmade etc and link it to the stats & the verses in the Quran to come up with a simplest proof that the original statement is true, using similar link techniques employed by the Rashid Kahlifa's band of merry men.

    Will need somebody who's a good programmer though.
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