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 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1530 - October 31, 2014, 02:01 AM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 30, 2014, 11:11 PM
    More and more Muslims are now becoming aware of al-Razi's anti-religionist views (due to people like us  grin12) and so I suspect he will be quietly dropped from the list of "Great Muslims Scientists"   Wink


    I have a muslim in another forum who concedes al Razi was atheist after reading his quote on the Quran being full of contradictions, no muslim i have met will admit to contradictions in the Quran.
    www.quran.com/4/82

    He is now saying al Razi is evidence of Islamic society being kind to atheists in that period which is easily debunked using more of al Razi's quotes. grin12

    I think all we have left is al Haytham and his book of optics which he wrote while feigning madness while under house arrest because he feared the Caliph would kill him.
    Of course we both disagree on why he was feigning madness, i say being of sound mind is a requirement for apostasy punishment.

    With all those atheists i call it the golden age of atheism instead of the golden age of Islam. Cheesy






  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1531 - October 31, 2014, 01:02 PM
    I thought that ibn al-Haytham pretended to be mad because he found out that he wasn't able to regulate the Nile as he told the caliph that he could. Are there any sources that point to him trying to avoid the penalty for apostasy, instead.

    Another thing is that ibn Sina and al-Farabi where pantheists. Ive read some of the works or parts of ibn Rushds work, and in some places he also fits into being a pantheist.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1532 - October 31, 2014, 07:53 PM
    Doubter_seeker - please see edit below:

    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 26, 2014, 10:26 PM

    They gave him rule over them, so he ruled as a tyrant - They wanted him to be a predator, but he made them his prey*

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1533 - October 31, 2014, 10:00 PM
    yay you finished the introduction.

    Now there are still the first three chapters left right ?  How long are they ?
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1534 - October 31, 2014, 10:18 PM
    actually just chapter 1 and 3 left  Afro  (ch 2 was the first one i did way back when everyone was supposed to be helping - each doing a different chapter)

    for pages - scroll back and see dounbter_seeker's post about that.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1535 - October 31, 2014, 10:40 PM
    Awesome! dance
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1536 - October 31, 2014, 11:03 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 31, 2014, 10:18 PM
    actually just chapter 1 and 3 left  Afro  (ch 2 was the first one i did way back when everyone was supposed to be helping - each doing a different chapter)

    for pages - scroll back and see dounbter_seeker's post about that.

     

    lol where is chapter 2.  The translation thread starts from chapter four only.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1537 - October 31, 2014, 11:23 PM
    I see you found it - and posted it on the other thread. Thanks tdr  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1538 - October 31, 2014, 11:45 PM
    When I come out my parents and relatives will want to take me to talk to some imam or mufti.

    When that happens I'll tell them that I'll talk to any imam or mufti they want on the condition that they read this book first.

    This is such a good book to plant seeds of doubt into people.   

    evil
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1539 - October 31, 2014, 11:54 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on October 31, 2014, 11:45 PM
    When I come out my parents and relatives will want to take me to talk to some imam or mufti.

    When that happens I'll tell them that I'll talk to any imam or mufti they want on the condition that they read this book first.

    This is such a good book to plant seeds of doubt into people.   

    evil


    You sneaky sod! Love that line of thinking though devil boy  Insert evil laugh devil girl

    After them saying ...  Go Criss!

    Basically would be like you saying ...

     Believe that crap  BS meter

    and they might be like ...

     cognitive dissonance bullshit gutterbrain

    Or they might have a ...  BS meter moment!

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1540 - November 01, 2014, 09:01 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 31, 2014, 07:53 PM
    Doubter_seeker - please see edit below:


    Noted in chapter 5 part 10!

    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on October 31, 2014, 11:45 PM
    When I come out my parents and relatives will want to take me to talk to some imam or mufti.

    When that happens I'll tell them that I'll talk to any imam or mufti they want on the condition that they read this book first.

    This is such a good book to plant seeds of doubt into people.   
    evil


    Good luck with actually convincing them to read it in the first place!
    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 31, 2014, 10:18 PM
    actually just chapter 1 and 3 left  Afro  (ch 2 was the first one i did way back when everyone was supposed to be helping - each doing a different chapter)

    for pages - scroll back and see dounbter_seeker's post about that.


    Track the progress over here. You can start reading the chapters if you click on the entry either in the "Forum Link" column or the "File Number" Column. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aL_G1aVg0dZTGejLEp-qkyg_y2ToGihQhlJorr-iwGs/edit#gid=0

    Should up be to the most of the time, but my goodness, Abu Ali is fast.

    Abu Ali: Also, a friendly request, when you get a chance finish the translation, could you review Chapter 5, Introduction and Part 02 and Part 03. They seem to be much shorter than the Arabic version and I suspect a few pages might be missing. I'll mark them in yellow for you on the spreadsheet!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1541 - November 01, 2014, 09:07 PM
    Will do - thanks  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1542 - November 02, 2014, 10:25 PM
    It's actually spooky how similar this guy's story is to mine. I'm beginning to think he's me in some alternate universe lol  grin12
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1543 - November 02, 2014, 10:35 PM
    Random Internet Arab Ex-Muslim responded with this when I had given him the link to the original scanned Arabic PDF:

    Quote
    I just picked a random part of the book and spent about 45 minutes reading. This is pretty damn good, reminiscent of Ibn Warraq's work...but unfiltered, and no lost elements in translation.
    It probably has a linguistic advantage over rivalling English publications, but his train of thought is still very logical to make for a great read regardless of translation. Certainly one for the purists.


    grin12
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1544 - November 02, 2014, 10:45 PM
    btw for those who read the last section and don't know what this "mark" is - here are a few pictures lol









  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1545 - November 02, 2014, 11:05 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on November 02, 2014, 10:35 PM
    Random Internet Arab Ex-Muslim responded with this when I had given him the link to the original scanned Arabic PDF:

    grin12

     He looked at this translation?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1546 - November 03, 2014, 12:02 AM
    No. I don't push the translation because I want it to make a big splash grin12

    Also I think people should get the complete work in English. Not bit and pieces here and there.

    Finally I want to make sure when it comes out that credit goes where credit belong - to Abu Ali and doubter_seeker9:
    suckers
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1547 - November 03, 2014, 08:03 AM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on November 03, 2014, 12:02 AM
    No. I don't push the translation because I want it to make a big splash grin12

    Also I think people should get the complete work in English. Not bit and pieces here and there.

    Finally I want to make sure when it comes out that credit goes where credit belong - to Abu Ali and doubter_seeker9:
    suckers

     Fair enough!  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1548 - November 03, 2014, 08:42 AM
    Are there any plans to eventually release it as an ebook by they way?

    Saif Rahman mentions in an older post on this thread that he could eventually help with that.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1549 - November 03, 2014, 08:44 AM
    I think either that or a pdf which can be viewed on kindles but text would have to be large enough.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1550 - November 03, 2014, 08:51 AM
    I am thinking it would be great to have on ebook platforms so people have the chance to stumble upon it when looking for books about the Qur'an and Islam - not just when they visit haram Ex-Muslim platforms.

    Give them the opportunity to read in their own comfort and not having all defense mechanisms activated by having wandering into known murtad territory.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1551 - November 03, 2014, 09:01 AM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on November 03, 2014, 08:42 AM
    Are there any plans to eventually release it as an ebook by they way?

    Saif Rahman mentions in an older post on this thread that he could eventually help with that.


    I'm hoping others will deal with all that. I think Maryam Namazie will help promoting it too.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1552 - November 03, 2014, 09:50 AM
    I have some thoughts on the launch which might be beneficial for those who will be responsible for it in CEMB.

    What is the primary goal of the launch? To get Muslims to read it or to promote CEMB - or both?

    Perhaps a two-pronged strategy could work here? One where COUNCIL OF EX-MUSLIMS OF BRITAIN is being promoted all over the place, and another where the relation to the Ex-Muslim community is toned down - e.g. on ebook-platforms?

    Also those will surely be interested:
    ExMNA (Muhammad Syed and Sarah Haider?)
    Faisal Saeed al Mutar and his Global Secularist Movement
    Ali A. Rizvi
    Free Arabs
    Saif Rahman
    Muslim and Ex-Muslim Women for Securalism
    ...and a bunch of others if I ever get to think more about it.

    With a bit of luck someone will eventually translate it into Urdu and Farsi Smiley

    Also there is an intention to publish a re-formatted Arabic version as far as I recall?
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1553 - November 03, 2014, 12:27 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on November 03, 2014, 08:42 AM
    Are there any plans to eventually release it as an ebook by they way?


    I'm actually thinking about it. Once I have everything consistently formatted, I can convert it to a number of formats. Obviously, I think the most prominent one is PDF, which is ideal for reading on the computer, or for printing. However, for reading on eBook platforms, I'll have to also convert it to something supported by eBook platforms, and it's really easy to convert between the different eBook formats. The most common format is EPUB, and then Kindle's AZW and KF8. A bunch of tools are listed here: http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Book_authoring_software

    Quote from: Nikolaj on November 03, 2014, 09:50 AM
    Perhaps a two-pronged strategy could work here? One where COUNCIL OF EX-MUSLIMS OF BRITAIN is being promoted all over the place, and another where the relation to the Ex-Muslim community is toned down - e.g. on ebook-platforms?


    There's many publishing houses that permit publishing of independent eBooks. From my understanding, this will be released for free, and that means we might be even able to get it on Amazon's free book section http://www.amazon.com/b?node=2245146011 . Of course, we could always drop a copy on https://archive.org/ which actually has a really good platform for dealing with eBooks.

    Quote from: Nikolaj on November 03, 2014, 09:50 AM
    Also there is an intention to publish a re-formatted Arabic version as far as I recall?


    I found a .doc (see http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10047.msg790319#msg790319) version of the Arabic with the editable Arabic text. I'm thinking of taking that and giving the same treatment that the English version went through, so we'll have a clean and readable version of the Arabic text. The only thing we need to be wary of, is that the text was on a Christian missionary site, and for some reason, they have the text marked with their copyright on it. No idea why, I doubt they got permission from the author to do that, so I think we should be safe to copy from it anyways.  I mean like, it really looks like some fancy OCR was used here, and they don't have the original.

    We could either just leave the Arabic version untouched, use the Arabic text, or use the Arabic text and get permission from the missionary website to have the copyright waived for us.

    Finally, I'm not sure if anyone wants to claim their own copyright on this, or just have it under the public domain. Do we just leave with authors/translators names, or have it under some sort 'organization'? Doesn't have to be the CEMB.

    Let me know what you all think about this, thanks!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1554 - November 03, 2014, 12:33 PM
    Also, if you want to get a taste of what the formatting could look like, here are some pages that are further along:

    Book title page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13gN_NlKZUC9ytlkPk2ioaz-tmQKrt2jX9dx7CKm-VnU/edit#
    Chapter 2 Title: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dOAUnTspxrmO3MaOy2b8gcdjUUHczU8bPCzRvcs-_9A/edit
    Chapter 2 Text: https://docs.google.com/document/d/124lbU3H8O7ERW7ClVY9q4W9OiqysEI4MHLnT1rRVds4/edit

    Let me know what you think so far.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1555 - November 03, 2014, 12:41 PM
    IMHO Public domain. Author and translators name and mention that cemb support it or something like that.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1556 - November 03, 2014, 02:01 PM
    @ Abu Ali.

     If you choose to remain anonymous by using your pseudonym on the book do you think there is a way to get the official CEMB logo on the book's cover ?

    If we give people a source to where the translation came from it might give it a bit more credibility.

    Maybe one of you guys could speak to the CEMB management committee about it ?
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1557 - November 03, 2014, 02:12 PM
    This is coming along great. I just looked through the preview links you posted.

    Now the hard part will be convincing muslims to actually read it .   


     Thinking hard 
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1558 - November 03, 2014, 02:17 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on November 03, 2014, 02:01 PM
    @ Abu Ali.

     If you choose to remain anonymous by using your pseudonym on the book do you think there is a way to get the official CEMB logo on the book's cover ?

    If we give people a source to where the translation came from it might give it a bit more credibility.

    Maybe one of you guys could speak to the CEMB management committee about it ?

    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on November 03, 2014, 02:12 PM
    This is coming along great. I just looked through the preview links you posted.

    Now the hard part will be convincing muslims to actually read it .   


     Thinking hard 


    Maybe put a reference in the acknowledgements and as a dedication to CEMB, but not on the front cover. If put it on the cover or whatever I think it would dissuade people from getting the book and reading it, especially Muslims and especially especially non-investigative Muslims.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1559 - November 03, 2014, 03:05 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on November 03, 2014, 02:01 PM
    @ Abu Ali.

     If you choose to remain anonymous by using your pseudonym on the book do you think there is a way to get the official CEMB logo on the book's cover ?

    If we give people a source to where the translation came from it might give it a bit more credibility.

    Maybe one of you guys could speak to the CEMB management committee about it ?


    I'm going to allow my real name to be on it. But I will make it clear that I am a Muslim - albeit an Agnostic Muslim - to hopefully reduce the defence and bad reaction.
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