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 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1500 - October 28, 2014, 07:49 PM
    hehe thanks guys  Smiley
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1501 - October 28, 2014, 08:06 PM
    Great work, and that last section is a cracker ... he really lays into the tafsir.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1502 - October 28, 2014, 08:08 PM
    Thanks - yes, doesn't he just, lol.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1503 - October 28, 2014, 09:06 PM
    You're an absolute legend mate!  Afro
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1504 - October 28, 2014, 09:10 PM
    Cheers Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1505 - October 28, 2014, 09:59 PM
    It is true, actually. I see comments like "I love his videos. I wonder where he went" more often than you would believe.

    Well, not telling it but I know he is baking up something really big grin12

    Yes, you are a legend among Ex-Muslims and a tremendous support to them Smiley

    And to me, when I engage with non-Muslims too eager to tell me that 4:34 does in fact NOT mean "hit her" and they bring a list of 30 other meanings of the Arabic word.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1506 - October 28, 2014, 10:05 PM
    lol cheers niki  Smiley
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1507 - October 28, 2014, 10:07 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on October 28, 2014, 09:59 PM
    It is true, actually. I see comments like "I love his videos. I wonder where he went" more often than you would believe.

    Well, not telling it but I know he is baking up something really big grin12

    Yes, you are a legend among Ex-Muslims and a tremendous support to them Smiley

    And to me, when I engage with non-Muslims too eager to tell me that 4:34 does in fact NOT mean "hit her" and they bring a list of 30 other meanings of the Arabic word.


    Hence me calling him forum/community dad! You are an awesome fatherly figure Abu Ali to those with either bad fatherly figures in their lives or ones who have abandoned them.

    Thank you and all on here for the support it has given me!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1508 - October 28, 2014, 10:22 PM
    You're welcome, Lily  Smiley
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1509 - October 28, 2014, 10:58 PM
    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on October 24, 2014, 12:38 AM
    Just a status update for everyone on the progress on this project:

    In terms of the translation itself, here are the parts that are remaining:
    - Book Introduction (8 pages)
    - Chapter 1 (29 pages)
    - Chapter 3 (28 pages)
    - Chapter 5 - Section 10 (9 Pages) - Abu Ali in working on finishing this section right now.
    - Book Conclusion (5 pages)

    Since all Abu Ali's work has been copied into Google Drive, I'm just working putting the footnotes in the right places. This is mostly done for Chapter 5 already. For Chapter 4, most of the text comes from the .tex file that Aziz created and it will take a bit longer to cleanup. In addition, I have to make sure that Arabic text in that section is properly organized and aligned just like in the original Arabic version. Chapter 2 is copied, cleaned-up and pretty much formatted.

    Like mentioned before, you can keep track of the work progress in the spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aL_G1aVg0dZTGejLEp-qkyg_y2ToGihQhlJorr-iwGs/edit?pli=1#gid=0

    Also, you can view the documents themselves by clicking the link in the column "File Number" beside the chapter name.

    Once Abu Ali is done, I'm not sure how we are going to proceed, we'll probably have to do the following:
    - Ensure that all parts have been translated by comparing against the original Arabic document.
    - Let Abu Ali review his work and ensure that it is to his liking.
    - Get others to proofread the document.
    - Format the document and ensure that matches the Arabic version in layout.
    - Generate PDF files out of the documents and merge them.
    - PUBLISH!

    There are a few things that we should discuss also:
    - Should we also re-create the Arabic version and have a clear and readable PDF version. (We have the .doc file, so we just need to copy, paste, and adjust the fonts, etc)?
    - I recall that Abu Ali wanted to add a preface of his own or something. Do you still want to do this?
    - We could also add a section about the who the author might be, and also the reactions of some the Muslims in the Appendix. (There was one in Arabic that was long, claiming conspiracy and what not by a Muslim scholar. ?Ibrahim Awad?)?
    - Finally, Chapter 4 especially relies on the Arabic text of the Quran, and only the English is provided. I was thinking of putting the Quranic verse in Arabic alongside the English, what do you think? Same for some of the poetry. What do you think?

    That's all for now!

    Thanks for taking on this task. Afro
    By the way, are you updating the tex file or have you switched to a Word document format?  Also, have you created a new repository on github?  I started editing the tex file a few months ago but only spent a few hours. I can't say I enjoyed editing TeX, Grin but editing complex Word documents can also drive me crazy.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1510 - October 28, 2014, 11:01 PM
    Good work on the translations, Abu Ali. Afro  The book will be generated sometime by hook or by crook.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1511 - October 29, 2014, 12:57 AM
    Quote from: ateapotist on October 28, 2014, 10:58 PM
    Thanks for taking on this task. Afro
    By the way, are you updating the tex file or have you switched to a Word document format?  Also, have you created a new repository on github?  I started editing the tex file a few months ago but only spent a few hours. I can't say I enjoyed editing TeX, Grin but editing complex Word documents can also drive me crazy.


    Right now, I just put everything in separate Google Docs documents (a file per section) right now, at least to have all the text in one place. Things are kept separate because working with one giant big file is too painful. Once everything is done, I'll just write a small script to join everything into one big file, and export it to PDF with Google Docs.

    The advantage with this approach is that it's really user friendly: anyone who is a collaborator can work on it as easily as using Microsoft Word. No git , no TeX typesetting, just editing. Plus we have revision control and annotated comments.

    Finally, for the actual .tex file, I haven't touched it. I'm not sure if I want to go the TeX route because:
    1. Most of the forum members probably aren't TeX programmers....
    2. We're not writing a scientific document, where LaTeX really shines with math equations, diagrams, etc.
    3. Writing TeX isn't very pleasant, even for a software developer like me.

    Again, a reminder, for those who want to start reading, editing, proofreading, suggestion changes, pass me your Google/GMail account and I'll you as a collaborator so you can edit the documents. I'm still working on the formatting, but the text is pretty much all there.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1512 - October 29, 2014, 09:07 AM
    There is no God, but if there were, his name would be Abu Ali.
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1513 - October 29, 2014, 10:12 AM
    Quote from: Naerys on October 29, 2014, 09:07 AM
    There is no God, but if there were, his name would be Abu Ali.

    He may not be a God, but Lord Abu-Ali of White Hart Lane has a certain ring to it.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1514 - October 29, 2014, 11:19 AM
    Quote from: Naerys on October 29, 2014, 09:07 AM
    There is no God, but if there were, his name would be Abu Ali.

    Nah.. I insult god so much  and I often say god is "She".,  So that name will not fit for Abu Ali., unless he becomes "she"  grin12 ., Off course sometimes I also throw mud on Abu Ali.....

    May be,  I would consider him for some political office in England..  such as  London Caliph  or   replacing one of those lords or peers in that UK parliament  would suit him better..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1515 - October 29, 2014, 01:06 PM
    Thanks to everyone who has helped. Check out doubter_seeker's spreadsheet, it's awesome!

    I wish RIBS was here to see the fruition of his idea. I hope he's OK. Libya is such a mess. I hope he hasn't come to any harm.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1516 - October 29, 2014, 01:25 PM
    Quote from: Naerys on October 29, 2014, 09:07 AM
    There is no God, but if there were, his name would be Abu Ali.


    A god might be taking it too far, but maybe we can see about parachuting him onto that white minaret in Damascus and getting people to believe he’s the Messiah. He’ll be a better fit than whatever nutcase actually ends up claiming it. Grin
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1517 - October 29, 2014, 01:31 PM
    Lol @hm
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1518 - October 30, 2014, 06:44 PM
    Quote from: doubter_seeker9 on October 29, 2014, 12:57 AM
    Right now, I just put everything in separate Google Docs documents (a file per section) right now, at least to have all the text in one place. Things are kept separate because working with one giant big file is too painful. Once everything is done, I'll just write a small script to join everything into one big file, and export it to PDF with Google Docs.

    The advantage with this approach is that it's really user friendly: anyone who is a collaborator can work on it as easily as using Microsoft Word. No git , no TeX typesetting, just editing. Plus we have revision control and annotated comments.

    Finally, for the actual .tex file, I haven't touched it. I'm not sure if I want to go the TeX route because:
    1. Most of the forum members probably aren't TeX programmers....
    2. We're not writing a scientific document, where LaTeX really shines with math equations, diagrams, etc.
    3. Writing TeX isn't very pleasant, even for a software developer like me.

    Again, a reminder, for those who want to start reading, editing, proofreading, suggestion changes, pass me your Google/GMail account and I'll you as a collaborator so you can edit the documents. I'm still working on the formatting, but the text is pretty much all there.

    Good plan!  Afro
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1519 - October 30, 2014, 06:45 PM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on October 29, 2014, 01:06 PM
    I wish RIBS was here to see the fruition of his idea. I hope he's OK. Libya is such a mess. I hope he hasn't come to any harm.

    My thoughts exactly.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1520 - October 30, 2014, 10:12 PM
    I had to double-check the date the book was written as I translated the paragraph below - as it could have been written today. (The book was 2004 btw) Just goes to show that nothing has changed, sadly.

    "The tyranny of the text has prevailed over every attempt at a renaissance and the dream of a renaissance so that all efforts come to nothing and all our hopes of achieving a plan for a renaissance are dashed. Instead what has happened is that the Salafis, fundamentalists, the bloodthirsty and the regressive have conspired to throttle the tentative breaths of any renaissance and disabled all initiatives that might lead to a renaissance."
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1521 - October 30, 2014, 10:30 PM
    Or a thousand years ago:

    Quote
    If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.

    Muhammad ibn Zakariyā Rāzī (854 CE – 925 CE)
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1522 - October 30, 2014, 10:34 PM
    lol... yeah ok  grin12
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1523 - October 30, 2014, 10:46 PM
    And yet, Ar-Razi is hailed by apologists as a great muslim scientist.This is why more people need to learn about that era.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1524 - October 30, 2014, 10:53 PM
    Quote from: Skywalker on October 30, 2014, 10:46 PM
    And yet, Ar-Razi is hailed by apologists as a great muslim scientist.This is why more people need to learn about that era.


    There are two famous al-Razis and people often confuse them.

    One was the al-Razi you are referring to above. Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi, (Rhazes in European literature)

    The other is: Fakhr ad-Din ar-Razi, a theologian, and wrote a Tafseer - also wrote on medicine and other sciences like the al-Razi above, but not as famous for his work in that field as he is on theology.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1525 - October 30, 2014, 11:05 PM
    Indeed, I was referring to Muhammad Al-Razi.

    Fakhr ad-din Al-Razi came after an era where it was not entirely uncommon to combine scholarship of Islam with being a scientist and philosopher.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1526 - October 30, 2014, 11:08 PM
    On a side note, has anyone ever known a lot of Muslims to cite al-Razi as an influential Muslim scientist if ever put on the spot about Islam and science? I've had several Muslims start telling me about this great and wonderful Muslim chemist, al-Razi. Grin

    Edit: Oh, it wasn't a side note. I just didn't read high up enough. Glad I'm not the only one who has run into this misfortune.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1527 - October 30, 2014, 11:11 PM
    More and more Muslims are now becoming aware of al-Razi's anti-religionist views (due to people like us  grin12) and so I suspect he will be quietly dropped from the list of "Great Muslims Scientists"   Wink
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1528 - October 30, 2014, 11:26 PM
    That's almost too bad. Apart from his use as one of the token "Muslim scientists," I rarely hear him brought up or mentioned. Never once heard about him in all of my science classes over all these years, and he certainly deserves more attention. Oh well.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1529 - October 31, 2014, 01:37 AM
    Muslim or not. Islam or not.

    Al-Razi was fucking badass. He can stand on his own. And he does.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
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