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So, I just want to get this straight and make sure I am not misrepresenting your beliefs or anything. Here is what I have surmised from your posts so far:

Billions of years ago, God existed on his own, basking in the glory of his own perfection. We are not entirely sure where he came from, maybe another universe, maybe he was just always there, chilling. But he was some how just completely perfect by default.

Then, one day, he decided he wanted to have a { relationship } with some tiny, insignificant, little organisms on a small rock orbiting a relatively unimpressive star in a backwater corner of one particular galaxy.

So, he sets conditions up on this speck of a planet perfectly to allow for life to grow and evolve under the pressures of natural selection. This means that countless wonderful and obscure life forms would live and die, only for their respective species to pointlessly go extinct under the pressures of their environments. Only the most suitable 2% will survive.

This goes on for quite some time as God watches quietly and uninvolved, until eventually, many billions of years later, Homo sapiens emerge from this sequence, perfect, brining his plan into fruition.

Again, God remains uninvolved for quite some time, watching as Homo sapiens develop all sorts of primitive beliefs and practices in an attempt to understand the world around them. At some point in this process, the Adam and Eve { metaphor } represents Homo sapiens" ignorance and diversion from Gods original plan and their own original perfection.

Fast forward to the Bronze Age and God starts { inspiring } random Middle Eastern guys to write on his behalf, but he is not too concerned with the accuracy of what they write because it is never meant to be literal anyhow. He will condone and watch over countless acts of war, genocide, animal sacrifice, stonings, executions, and other obscene forms of violence committed in his name, never once coming out clearly against any of it.

Then, about 2,000 years ago, he decides that he has had enough of all of the bloodshed and sacrifice, so he impregnates a teenager with his son, who is really himself, so that he could kill himself in order to have a relationship with homo sapiens that he initially desired.

 But he did not want to make the path to a relationship with him clear, so he obscured it in all sorts of mystery, allegory, and confusion, causing for the emergence of countless schisms and sects all claiming to be { the one true way. }

Then, to make things even more confusing, he still allowed for all other sorts of { paths } and { religions } to exist  that had nothing to do with his son/self suicide ritual, and would be really upset if you happened to believe in one of those other { ways. }

So, he decided to make our chances at salvation to be contingent mostly on where and to whom we are born.
If we happen to pick the right way, God will let us into his club free of charge. If we happen to choose the wrong way, he will hold us to account for the very nature that he created us with the propensity towards to begin with.

Sound about right?

Da'wah-gandists have shifted their focus from the specificities of Islam to these sub-standard, pathetic, already debunked William Lane Craig style Christian apologetics about the existence of god etc etc

Like Islam itself, they are plaigarised, and second-hand, which seems very appropriate.

Its easy to see why they made this desperate shift in da'wah focus. The details of Islam are so obviously absurd and ethically flawed that they consider an escape into generality, no matter how flea ridden, weak and stolen from Christian apologetics, to be an escape from the close-up scrutiny of the specific details and truth claims of Islam (Muhammad, Sunnah, the Quran, Hadith) that terrifies them. When the light of liberalism, secularism, modernity is shone on Islam it really is the naked emperor. Hence the hysteria, the threats, and in the case of new-age dawah-gandists, the laughable recourse to plaigarised, inane 'big concept' general apologetics.

When I look at the history of humanity, and all of the things that we have achieved over the millennia, the building and planning of great cities, the technology that we have developed, that art that has been created, the societies that we have created and the morals that we have gradually evolved, and all the great things that humanity has yet to achieve, because let us face it, humanity has only existed for a few thousand years and we will probably be around for at least another million. Think of all the worlds out there that our descendants will one day explore!

Now the theist view is that all of this is temporary, that this universe is not even a real one, it is artificial, created by a God as some experiment with a definitive ending date, over which we humans have no control. So all the great figures in history, and all the things they achieved, both for the good and for the bad, all of it was utterly pointless, a total waste of time: Hammurabi, Sargon of Akkad, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Justinian, Darwin, Einstein, Newton, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, etc. etc. Why did Julius Caesar cross the Rubicon River and end the Roman Republic? If there is a God then this act has no purpose, he may as well have just stayed at home and done nothing with his life.

Whenever I hear a theist talking about {Judgement Day}, I always think to myself, wow, what a terribly pessimistic and uninspiring view of the Universe these religious people have! They actually believe that all of this universe, so rich and vast, and all of the achievements of the billions of people that have lived on this planet, it is all about to just disappear, as if it never happened.

Now I know that scientists also believe that the Universe will not last forever either, but at least it is an open-ended question, there is no definitive end in sight. Perhaps in a billion years the Universe will end and everything that humanity achieved will disappear, but a billion years is a very long time, and by that time we may have the technology to prolong the Universe indefinitely.

If God does exist, then he already understands why we do not believe in him. He made it that way. He must want it that way. He gave us minds that are capable of distinguishing fact from bullshit, then deliberately made his religion sound like bullshit.

He made the sacred texts of his religion sound virtually indistinguishable from fairytales, and made sure that there were plenty of scientific errors, historical inaccuracies, and examples of some of the most inhumane and brutal torture tactics ever recorded all sprinkled evenly through out.

He made evolution make perfect sense and placed all the evidence for it to fit perfectly where it would need to be were it true, from the fossil record to DNA to the geographic diversity of the species.

He chose to send his messages at a time when humanity was technologically and socially backwards, and to a part of the world that was among the most backwards, then requires us to stay backwards in order to apply his will.

And lastly, after making his religion seem completely unbelievable, he made salvation contingent upon doing the one thing that we can not choose to do: believing. We can not make a choice to believe in things that we honestly do not think are true.

Even if we were to DO all of the things that religions ask of us, if we do not BELIEVE and SUPPORT 100% of the nonsense, 100% of the errors, 100% of the atrocities, 100% of the inaccuracies, then there is no hope for us. If you do not believe in even an iota of it, then in God;s point of view, you are already screwed. He can roast your skin, beat your head, drive rods through your face, and pour molten brass down your throat, all for not believing in things you had plenty of reason to doubt. FOR EVER, by the way. That is 700 billion years, times 900 billion years, plus another 700 billion, and another, times a million, plus another hundred billion, times another, and another, and get the idea. Actually, no you do not. You can not. It is insane.

I am absolutely certain that a being of this magnitude of insanity is NOT the most merciful God of the universe. He does not exist. You can stop worrying about it and get on with the rest of your life.

I can echo those here who say they would not want to wear any form of hijab, no matter how mild, because of how it blatantly associates the wearer with Islam. As I was working through my doubts before actually leaving Islam, this was one of the things I struggled with. Having been living in an Islamic country at the time, though, I could not have removed it without making serious waves at work and within my social circle.

I was still living there when I finally did leave Islam. At that point, I did not dare remove it. I feared it would have meant not only losing my social circle, but risking my freedom and possibly my life if it led to the people around me discovering the truth about my apostasy. And so I continued to wear it for the longest four months of my life until I was able to leave the country.

A few weeks before I was to leave, I was contemplating how and when, if ever, I would tell my closest Muslim friends that I could no longer believe. I decided I could do a test run to see how they would react by admitting that I had thoughts of removing the hijab. Just as I suspected, they reacted with pretty much an intervention, and begged me to reconsider. One friend hastily forwarded a few links about hijab in an attempt to convince me it was obligatory. In her haste, she did not realize one of the links she sent me actually argued against the necessity of hijab. When I pointed it out, she frantically apologized, and proceeded to fling quote after quote from Quran, hadith, and various scholars in an attempt to prove that hijab is required, and then bullied me into obeying with statements like, {{Please remember, that any hadith is sunnah.  And we must follow the sunnah also.}}

With just days left in the country, I assured them they had convinced me and I would keep the hijab. They seemed satisfied.

On the day I finally left, I was wearing a long skirt and a thin t-shirt under a flowing black abaya with a black hijab wrapped lightly but securely around my head. I boarded the plane and sat quietly, anxiously yet nervously awaiting my stop in Amsterdam. I felt fine in my abaya and hijab. I knew by then how to wear them comfortably, so I was not physically bothered. But I was acutely aware of everyone who looked at me. {{I am on the plane now, I am home free. I do not have to wear this anymore. Can they tell? Do they see the real me under these shrouds?}} Because I could feel it sharply.

As soon as I arrived in Amsterdam, I headed straight for the restroom. My palms were sweaty and my heart was racing in anticipation of what I was about to do. I was a little shaky standing in the stall as I removed each piece one at a time, folding carefully so they would take up the least amount of room in my bag. I put on the jeans and tank top I had carried with me, and then I hesitated. This was it. The end of the old me.

I was about to have full possession of my freedom.

Even more acutely aware of every glance, I stepped out of the restroom. I had gone in quiet, somber, and shrouded. I came out tall, fresh, alive. Had anyone noticed? It did not matter. The air on my skin gave me goosebumps to the core and I gained confidence with every step. Before I knew it, the hijab was behind me. And I have not looked back.

Council of ex-Muslims of Britain (RSS feed)

1 September 2014 20:00-22:30pm DJ Zee.Jay will bring us music to enjoy, dance and mingle with. Entry: £3; £1 unwaged. At The Coach & Horses 1 Great Marlborough Street, London, W1F 7HG To RSVP, please email: You can also turn up
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On 1 September from 6:30-7:30pm CEMB will be organising its quarterly meet-up for apostate asylum seekers and refugees with Ana Gonzalez, a lawyer of a well-respected law firm which has represented a number of apostasy asylum claimants and CEMB members who
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2014 Conference: Religious-Right, Secularism and Civil Rights Date: Saturday-Sunday 11-12 October 2014 Venue: The Tower Hotel, St Katharine's Way, London E1W 1LD Don’t miss 2014’s historic conference. Register now to get the special early bird rates. Purchase your tickets today! Join notable secularists for a two-day international conference on the Religious-Right, Secularism and Civil Rights during 11-12 October 2014 at the Tower Hotel in London.
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CEMB Picnic London's Hyde Park Near Speakers' Corner 3 August 2014, 2pm For more details, contact:
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amal-_2921296bThe Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain is pleased to announce that Amal Farah is now a Spokesperson of the organisation along with Maryam Namazie and Nahla Mahmoud. Amal was born in the Somali capital Mogadishu and now resides in England. Her father Col. Mohamud Farah served under Somalia’s military dictator Siad Barre before he was forced into exile in 1983 where he served as a DFSS military commander until his death a year later. She was subsequently raised in a conservative Muslim household that practiced a purist and literal interpretation of Islam, an experience she found to be stifling and suffocating. At seventeen Amal began to explore Islam deeply, studying the Quran and its meaning and Islamic history. She came to the conclusion several years later, whilst studying for a Molecular Biology degree, that she no longer believed in Islam, as she found that her conscience was at odds with some if its teachings. Prompted by the parallels between her life and that of Meriam Ibrahim, a Sudanese mother sentenced to 100 lashes for “adultery” and to death “apostasy”, Amal felt compelled to speak out against what she viewed as a gross violation of human rights. She feels a strong sense of duty and a need to do good by using her voice to speak out for voices that have been oppressively silenced in the name of Islam. You can see a recent interview with Amal here and here.
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28 June 2014, 14:00 - 17:00 CitizenM Hotel, 60 Renfrew St, Glasgow, G2 3BW Apostasy, Atheism, Secularism and Ex-Muslims First Public Seminar of Ex-Muslims Scotland
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The Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain is appalled at Ofsted’s recently updated guidance on faith schools. The guidance asserts that segregation of the sexes is not a sign of inequality and that veiling is a sign of Islamic “modesty” and “identity”; it also justifies restrictions on everything from art and music to sex and health education. The guidance helps to further normalise the Islamist agenda at a time when the Birmingham Trojan horse plot has been exposed. CEMB calls on Ofsted to revise its guidance and put the educational needs of children before religion and the religious-Right.
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Apostasy and Asylum: Escaping the Clutches of Religion, Open Democracy, 26 May 2014 [external link]
I renounced Islam, so my family think I should die [CEMB member], The Telegraph, 25 May 2014 [external link]
UK: Charity Commission probes Islamic charity which calls for gays to be put to death, Pink News, 25 May 2014 [external link]

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